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Is reprogramming ahead for DEF derating?


franco-bolli
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After reading this article from the May RVTravel web site "Finally! Possible DEF relief for diesel-powered RVs, trucks" I'm left with hope.

I haven't experienced the dreaded engine derate that slows the vehicle to 5mph yet and hope to be able to avoid it. However, sensors fail through no fault of the owners. I've read that some sensors are just plain hard to find.

It's great that the EPA is considering a change in 2027 but it will be up to the individual engine manufacturers to implement a programming change to current models. 
The comments below the article are lacking substance, so I didn't read many of them.

The link to the DEF sensor workaround is interesting as well.
 

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1 hour ago, Ray,IN said:

That workaround has been temporarily  "approved" with a wink and a nod from the EPA. Otherwise some of the OTR commercial trucking company fleets would be sidelined. Talk about inflation and the law of supply  and demand__wow.

I think that's mostly good news.  

  In Idaho, they have emissions testing which I'm sure several states do.  If I purchase or build a workaround, and the truck somehow doesn't pass emissions testing, is there something I can reference to prove that the EPA has winked and nodded at my use of the device?

It's also not clear to me what triggers a regen cycle and what sensors need to be satisfied to conclude the regen cycle. I know it causes an increase in temps to "Clean out" the convertor and also causes additional fuel consumption.  Maybe I need a crash course in the regen cycle. I'm sure there are sources out there on the University of YouTube.

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2 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

That workaround has been temporarily  "approved" with a wink and a nod from the EPA. Otherwise some of the OTR commercial trucking company fleets would be sidelined. Talk about inflation and the law of supply  and demand__wow.

Yup. The MDT and HDT market has been nearly ham-strung over sensor backorders, and the dealerships and service Tech's have been quietly installing "temporary approval" software just to keep material moving. Theoretically, your Ram pickup isn't currently eligible for any software but factory, but I know the service Tech's with lower morals have been installing MDT software patches into 3500 series Cummins engines to keep them running with missing sensors.

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4 hours ago, franco-bolli said:

I think that's mostly good news.  

  In Idaho, they have emissions testing which I'm sure several states do.  If I purchase or build a workaround, and the truck somehow doesn't pass emissions testing, is there something I can reference to prove that the EPA has winked and nodded at my use of the device?

It's also not clear to me what triggers a regen cycle and what sensors need to be satisfied to conclude the regen cycle. I know it causes an increase in temps to "Clean out" the convertor and also causes additional fuel consumption.  Maybe I need a crash course in the regen cycle. I'm sure there are sources out there on the University of YouTube.

The DEF system consists of the DEF injection and the SCR converter, along with sensors before and after the SCR converter.  The DEF system removes nitrogen oxides from the exhaust.  The diesel particulate filter (DPF) consists of the filter/soot collector along with usually another diesel injector that adds fuel to the filter to burn off the collected soot, which is what is called the regen cycle.  The DEF system does not have a regen cycle.

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From what I've heard, and experienced, the big issue is often the DEF tank level sensor getting flaky.  Both our daughter's diesel VW and our Kenworth have experienced it, and when it happens you have a short distance to fix it or be de-rated.  When It happened to us, we were just about to hitch up to the rv.  Fortunately, a KW dealer was only 40 miles away.  We took it there and they got us going the next day, with a new egr valve thrown in for good measure. $$$

Our daughter hasn't been so lucky.  She's had to take her car in several times for the same issue, each time waiting days, if not weeks, for a new sensor.

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2 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

From what I've heard, and experienced, the big issue is often the DEF tank level sensor getting flaky.  Both our daughter's diesel VW and our Kenworth have experienced it, and when it happens you have a short distance to fix it or be de-rated.  When It happened to us, we were just about to hitch up to the rv.  Fortunately, a KW dealer was only 40 miles away.  We took it there and they got us going the next day, with a new egr valve thrown in for good measure. $$$

Our daughter hasn't been so lucky.  She's had to take her car in several times for the same issue, each time waiting days, if not weeks, for a new sensor.

Is there a jumper opportunity to use as a work around?  Or is it a varying output type of device?

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1 hour ago, rpsinc said:

Is there a jumper opportunity to use as a work around?  Or is it a varying output type of device?

Yes there is a workaround.  I've not used the product.

Here is a link to the workaround that was at the bottom of the article I referenced when starting this string.   Hope this helps!

a DEF sensor workaround

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/7/2022 at 12:59 PM, franco-bolli said:

I think that's mostly good news.  

  In Idaho, they have emissions testing which I'm sure several states do.  If I purchase or build a workaround, and the truck somehow doesn't pass emissions testing, is there something I can reference to prove that the EPA has winked and nodded at my use of the device?

It's also not clear to me what triggers a regen cycle and what sensors need to be satisfied to conclude the regen cycle. I know it causes an increase in temps to "Clean out" the convertor and also causes additional fuel consumption.  Maybe I need a crash course in the regen cycle. I'm sure there are sources out there on the University of YouTube.

 

On 9/8/2022 at 7:56 AM, franco-bolli said:

@57becky

the more I learn, I realize that I need to learn more.

thanks for the explanation.

 

The regen cycle is also an issue.  I had mine go into derate mode in the middle of somewhere. 

I suspect EPA has probably killed several people in the backcountry of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming when their vehicles went into derate mode during season ending snowstorm at the end of elk season.

Almost a decade ago, it cost 5,000 dollars to replace the system.  Fortunately, it was covered under the emission warranty, which has long since expired.

A diesel mechanic showed me two bolts in front of the catalytic converter that when loosened will add air and restore the vehicle to full power so you can save your life.  You might want to ask a diesel mechanic about that quick fix in case your stuck in the middle of somewhere.  Not sure if it is still applicable today.  I am not a mechanic.

The derating of diesel trucks is one of the dumbest things ever thought up by EPA.  I do hope they deal with the regen issue for those of us with older trucks. 

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