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'08 Volvo 730 wont start


rpsinc

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     I am thinking ground wire from batteries. Where that cable connects to truck frame/ engine. Or as Darryl said, bad ground cable. Could be a problem. Is there a main ground from the engine to the cab.

  If you jump the solenoid will the engine turn over.

 

   Locked starter is a wild guess. Really wild, but no one knows yet.

   Check amperage on starter when ignition is turned on. At the same time have a separate dc voltmeter hooked to another ground besides the batteries. That could test for a bad ground on the main cable. On our 2000 Volvo I can check ground on the foot step to see if the chassis has a good ground.

  At least thinking is cheap

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1 hour ago, Wrknrvr said:

  Darryl.  

  You need to FaceTime with him.  I really believe you would have a much better idea what to do.    Where to look and test.

    It may take one person trying to start the truck, while another person is looking for lost power somewhere.

  Maybe some time to follow the schematics of his truck.

    

 

Implies iPhone. If Volvo 1-800-I'mB-oned can't help, I may have to do the road trip. I fully expect to have assistance, while I lay hands on the patient. Casting out of demons is seldom a solo excercise.

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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   Well it is really raining  hard this am in western South Carolina.  Too noisy to sleep.

    So I am thinking what could be simple to cause this situation. I started to think about armchair diagnostics on your truck. I did post a link to your truck electrical build awhile back. Found that the ignition relay also powers the windshield wipers.       Do they work. 

    I am thinking we should have a betting game on this subject. The proceeds will go to Darryl for fuel and expenses if he need to make a trip.

 

 

    So I went to the link for Volvo trucks that I posted earlier in the discussion.

   Went to the second page, bottom lower left. Look at FRC J1 to FRC J4. It shows the wiring schematics for the ignition sequence.

  Go down to the next page. You can see everything the ignition 12vdc power applies to. With the key, do other things that are wired through that relay also  quit when the key is turned on.

  I tried to copy and paste the diagram I looked at. But my computer or me cannot accomplish that task.

 

   Just thinking.   How much fuel does Darryl need.

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With the Multiple PCM Management systems for 2007 and newer trucks, without access to a Diesel Laptop with correct software to access this becomes a big money guessing game.  These do not work as Pre'07 machines, they do not respond well to back testing voltages as done on the older machines and cannot use simple test lamp power confirmation tests.  I left the industry prior to these type machines becoming prevalent but have kept up with the testing sequence programs, the only alternate way to determine if have lost a PCM is to replace with a dealer test module, only a dealer tech can do that.

Freightliner and Volvo group supplied machines (Several side application makes) have upwards of six PCM Modules responding to a central PCM that delivers signals to such as the ECM on the engine delivered to these manufacturers.  The main Engine ECM actually starts the engine off a Control Signal from the Cab PCM.  Overly technified mechanisms of our future.

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   I guess I am being corrected.

  Unfortunately the documents I am looking at is from 03

 

so be it, I am wrong. 

 

  I tried to look at the resource guide last night and I could not get it to open.

 

  I will search for 08 or newer documents.

 

 

   Soo much for armchair diagnostics 

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You're in the same boat as me, Vern. 2004 version is the newest I have. I do agree there is a generational change, right around the time this rig was made. Laptop becomes critical for dignostics, and old school methods don't particularily work anymore, and can cause collateral damage. Swapping ECMs isn't as easy as connecting wires to the test unit, as programming changes can render the test worthless. Basic troubleshooting skills, and a laptop, go hand in hand these days. Troubleshooting is a skill, that is hard to do remote, as Vern can attest to. I'm assuming rpsinc's mechanic has access to a laptop with the Volvo software, but I can provide if not. That will delay, as I need to get a laptop shipped across the Medicine Line. 

I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 

2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication
2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet
2007 32.5' Fleetwood Quantum


Please e-mail us here.

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Sorry if came across harsh.

Ran into this on a 09(Built 09/08) Western Star no Start DD13 engine, was a Central PCM that took signals from Cab Control Modules to start engine, Has four Cab Modules.  Had to See Brakes Module, Trans Module, and Ignition Circuit Feed module.  HVAC Module did not play during this, the Main PCM then actuates the Engine ECM to start and control that engine.  Ended up having a tech from the dealer brought out their test module, swapped and started right up, swapped back and explained would be a few weeks to get a replacement.  Sealed in Epoxy so non repairable electronics, also buried alive inside dash area.

 

Dave

 

Had to edit, are Five cabin Modules, the other is Emissions Control that monitors the DEF/DPF systems as get into Tier Four.

Edited by ddm502001
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    Well? That was not harsh. Just a correction. I need that at times.

 

   I drive a 1990 Jeep Wrangler yj with a corvette engine in it. Aluminum high rise intake. Holly carburetor.

    But I do have HEI ignition in it.    So am sorta oldddd school.

 

    Now since it is a 2008, does this truck have remote diagnostics from Volvo trucks USA.

   I just was reading about there ability to diagnose over the road trucks, while I think going down the road.

 

   Last winter I had a fuel line issue on my Cummins N14. Called customer service and joined there system. They said part can be overnighted.  Or how close the part was. Had it overnight. Went from Albuquerque to Memphis to El Paso to my campsite in about 21 hours. I was between Albuquerque and El Paso. 

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   I have been thinking,,,,,,,     if Dave would not have corrected me.

 

    Me and Darryl would be on our way to possibly create a pile of dodo.

    But since I am in South Carolina for the winter our getting together was a problem. I had time to think.

   Just imagine if there was a trip to help. And things went south. Like in not knowing what the (.    ?) we were doing.    Well then I may have not posted on here again. A least until the dust settled 

 

  I would felt like a dog that got in trouble.   Yep, tail between my legs and wimping. All the way home.

   Darryl may not even have talk to me all the way home. Especially if that pile was my fault?

 

  So thanks, Dave for that correction. And education.

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I do not believe the Online Diagnostics became a thing until the later 2012-14 period and there newer.  Many makes still do not have that, cost prohibitive and required a Subscription per truck to owners' groups.

 

Volvo dealer anywhere near to you?  Other than laying hands to a Laptop at a couple grand plus software as a subscription, with that a few $Benjamins may be a cheaper alternate for now.

 

Dave

Edited by ddm502001
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Circling back around....Does no one else think the fat that the starting module doesn't recognize "neutral" is a problem?

I'm certainly no modern truck tech, but I've personally experienced this one, on an older truck.  It was a PITA to diagnose and fix.

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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   I did look for a wiring schematics for the year of truck involved. I have not found anything yet specific to it.

    But I bet a phone call to Class8 trucks may fined it. Or maybe a email to them.  Also Volvo trucks USA may help.

 

  I think there could be thinking outside of Volvo thinking that may point to the problem.   That is a big statement. I had the wiring schematics I could get a better idea.

 

  Without probing wires. Or connections.

 

Edited by Wrknrvr
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21 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

If you jump the solenoid will the engine turn over.

Nope

 

8 hours ago, Wrknrvr said:

does this truck have remote diagnostics from Volvo trucks USA

Nope

 

5 hours ago, ddm502001 said:

Volvo dealer anywhere near to you?

The guy working on it is a Volvo master with Volvo software

 

2 hours ago, rickeieio said:

It was a PITA to diagnose and fix.

Here we are living this.  Now they are asking IF I can have the truck towed to their shop so they can have access instead of 50 minute ride each way to try a few things.  Known good ECM did not change anything.

 

1 hour ago, Wrknrvr said:

Also Volvo trucks USA may help

They did "tow it to a dealer"

Marcel

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  • 3 weeks later...

When you saw it would not actuate is that no solenoid or click and no start?     This amost sounds like a cable or ternminal that is bad.     You do have voltage on the heavy cable to the starter?    Have you bench tested the starter?     The starter should spin the engine over when the solenoid is engaged.     If you have voltage at the starter do you have current at the starter?     Can you jump the starter with a battery just to confirm the starter spins?     A neutral safety or anti thieft may not allow the engine to start but the starter should spin the engine by going straight to the solenoid.   

Start at the batteries and work forward to ensure that the cables are secure and intact.    You have voltage at the starter lug from the batteries?      When you energise the solenoid what is the voltage at both the starter and solenoid positive?     Take a jumper cable and ground the starter to the batteries.       You may have lost the chassis to engine ground.     None of this makes any sense, a mechanic should have tried these on day one hour one.

 

Steve

2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift

1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta

1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project

 catdiesellogo.jpg.e96e571c41096ef39b447f78b9c2027c.jpg Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine.   

 

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On 12/18/2022 at 6:16 PM, Steve from SoCal said:

The starter should spin the engine over when the solenoid is engaged

This was done without success and so the starter was changed.

I am not doing the diagnostic myself, as I previously indicated, I have a Volvo master tech doing these checks but it has been difficult since they have been coming to my yard(1 hour drive each way) and trying things, like troubleshooting.  The next step is to tow it to their yard(after they move the 1st of the year) so that they can have it there to do the troubleshooting.

I did get a tidbit on the FB page that offered to check the shifter and associated connectors/wiring from the shifter as the contributor said it had happened to them that inside the shifter had an issue that was preventing the neutral to be satisfied even though the shifter was in Neutral.  I will try this when I have time.  I run 2 businesses and work more than fulltime, so time has been MY greatest challenge.

Thanks for the continuing ideas.

Marcel

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7 minutes ago, rpsinc said:

I did get a tidbit on the FB page that offered to check the shifter and associated connectors/wiring from the shifter as the contributor said it had happened to them

I believe I mentioned that a page or two back....

KW T-680, POPEMOBILE
Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN
Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row
Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer.
contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net

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  • 1 month later...
32 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Have you gotten the truck running?

Yes, picked it up yesterday.  Decided on a different shop, an independent shop specializing in Volvos, in business since 1955.  I had it towed in on Tuesday and they called on Thursday telling me it was ready.  Turned out the lead tech had it diagnosed in 30 minutes, replaced the transmission control module(~$250) and reprogrammed things and it was done.  They also did a good once over and declared it healthy(should be with only 85643 miles).  

Glad that is behind me.  They speculated that the failure was due to its age.  The TCM that they installed had a few revisions since the original was installed in the truck in '08, perhaps because they created a better one over time, but the newest one is installed and working.  

Now I am wondering WHY the starter and batteries needed changing??  Those werent cheap.  At least now I have a resource that I can trust to work on my truck.  Apparently the dash was indicating that the problem was TCM related, not specifically what had failed but certainly what system was the culprit.  Good work is more difficult to find, I guess.

Marcel

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