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Problem with Solar System


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Hi, I'm new here, so please bear with me if I do something stupid.

I have a 1990 Fleetwood Arrow in which I think the previous owner put in a solar panel & control display. It was working fine(as far as I know), until this year. We hardly drove it for 2 years while I had my hips replaced. The display has always read 12-13V when there's plenty of sun or when I run the generator for awhile. It's now stuck on 11.4 V no matter what the situation. In the past, whenever it read below approx. 11.5 V, I would have a hard time starting the generator. However, the generator starts fine, so I'm thinking it's something in the display panel. I have your basic meter, but don't know what to test. Any thoughts?

thanks, Scott

Ps-There's no one in my area that works on coaches.

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Thank you for the reply. I'm having trouble signing in, so it took me awhile.

I haven't checked recently, but I did replace one a year or two ago, & believe they are fine. I'll check again, but when the one battery was going bad, the display panel still worked as normal, & showed that the system was not charging all the way. Now the display is stuck. It always reads 11.4 V, 20% charge, & 0 amps from the solar panel.

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Good morning Foto, yours is a good but very wide open question with many variables and unknowns so I can only offer some basics.

 1) A fully charged lead acid (includes AGM as well as wet flooded ) battery at rest and stabilized should measure around 12.6 volts.

2) A working charging system (Converter/Charger or Solar) should raise battery voltage to at least 13 up to 14+ subject to battery condition and SOC as well as regulation scheme and settings and sunshine etc

That 11.4 may be INACCURATE as under 12 volts is like 50% or less !!!!!!!!! That would be a TOTAL DEAD battery......... That display may be SHOT

 While this isn't much help, you may have a bad battery(s),,,,,,,,,A bad charging system (Converter/Charger or Solar),,,,,,,,,,Simply a bad connection,,,,,,,,,Or an open fuse/breaker,,,,,,,,,,,Or the display is shot................. Many shops will test a battery including a Load test for free I WOULD START WITH THAT.....Is the electrolyte level adequate,,,,??? If batteries are okay, then its back to Converter/Charger,,,,,,Display,,,,,,,,,Bad wiring, connection or fuse or breakers..

 Check the batteries, take two aspirins and call me at the office

 John T

  

  

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Hey, thank you oldjohnt! I agree with everything you said. I have 3 AGM coach batteries, & an extra wet cell battery under the hood that seems to mainly be the generator starter battery, & they're all hooked up to the solar power display, inverter, charger, etc. Never fully understood how that all works. Anyway, been getting ready to go out of town, & haven't taken off the display yet. I'm hoping it could just be a loose wire/contact or something. Actually, didn't think of checking the fuses/circuit breakers, so thanks for that. I didn't realize that a tripped breaker or blown fuse might only cut off 1/2 the voltage until it happened on the rv.  Going down to Reno, NV, & may be able to get it looked at there if I can't figure it out myself.

Thanks again,

Scott

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12 hours ago, Fotoheart said:

& an extra wet cell battery under the hood that seems to mainly be the generator starter battery, & they're all hooked up to the solar power display, inverter, charger, etc. Never fully understood how that all works.

You're welcome, regarding your statement I linked above: I can't say from here how it's all configured, but a typical arrangement might be:

 The ENGINE Battery and Alternator are often separate from the COACH battery, although I have seen some gensets use the ENGINE battery for starting. Typically the solar charge controller PLUS the shore or genset powered Converter/Charger is ONLY connected to the HOUSE battery and NOT to the ENGINE battery, although sure it could be done otherwise. Also typical is some sort of an Emergency switch/solenoid so the HOUSE battery can be jumped to the ENGINE battery if its dead to start the engine.

 Soooooooo I cant know how your Solar Power Display is wired and if or not to the ENGINE (I dont expect) plus the HOUSE batteries and if or not your solar is also somehow connected to the engine battery (which I also dont expect but cant say from here) . 

 Again I doubt those 11.4 volt readings (maybe display is bad) and your problem may simply be a bad connection or a fuse breaker or disconnect issue. Tooooooooooo many variables and unknowns to say much more sitting here 

 Best wishes

John T   NOT any solar expert see what they have to say   

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello! Sorry it's taken awhile. No usable internet at rv park in reno, then we broke down just outside of Reno on the way home(separate issue). But, Good News! After searching the internet, found info about my Go Power Solar controller. Even though mine was an older model, there is a "soft reset" & a "hard reset" that can be tried. I did a soft reset, & everything is back to normal, working fine!

Just to fill you in, my engine starting battery is separate from everything else, except that the propane safety cut off controller will drain the starter battery if I'm camped too long without driving. The other under the hood battery is tied into the Go Power control, but seems to be just for starting the generator? As I remember, I've been in a situation where the coach batteries were fine, but I still couldn't start the generator. Then again, I'm getting old. So, to cover all the bases, I carry a fold up solar panel & a battery charger.

This may be for a different post, but we broke down on an exit with no services, shade or anything, & Hartford Insurance's included 24/7 RV Towing & Roadside assistance let us cook in 115° heat for 2 days! I started thinking they were going to find 2 sun bleached human skeletons, a small dog skeleton, & a very fat cat!

Thanks for your help,

Scott

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1 hour ago, Fotoheart said:

The other under the hood battery is tied into the Go Power control, but seems to be just for starting the generator?

In nearly all motorhomes the coach battery supplies the power to strar the generator. The logic is that since you have an emertency start switch (or at least you should have) that will parallel the two batteries, if the chassis battery is up and the coach battery is discharged you can start the chassis engine to supply 12V via it's alrernater, then use the emergency start switch to allow starting the generator from the chassis 12V system. On the other hand, should the chassis battery be discharged and the coach battery good you can first start the generator, then use the emergency start switch to tie the two systmes together and start the chassis engine having jumped it to the coach system.

Sorry to hear of the other problem. You may want to take a look at the Escapees Road Service or perhaps the one from Coach Net

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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21 hours ago, Kirk W said:

In nearly all motorhomes the coach battery supplies the power to strar the generator. 

I have to disagree, Kirk.  Most motorhomes I've seen have the generator connected to the house batteries with the jump switch available to boost from the chassis battery if it's needed to start the generator.

The reason is most generators don't produce 12 volts, only 120 VAC so it relies on the converter to recharge the battery and replace the 12 volts used by the generator's ignition system.   The converter only charges the house batteries, if the generator was on the starting battery it would slowly drain it.

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On 9/15/2022 at 3:18 PM, Fotoheart said:

Just to fill you in, my engine starting battery is separate from everything else, except that the propane safety cut off controller will drain the starter battery if I'm camped too long without driving. The other under the hood battery is tied into the Go Power control, but seems to be just for starting the generator?

Congrats on the repair and thanks for the update. FWIW in 50 years of RV ownership plus being a used dealer for some time dealing will all sorts of different makes n models, I encountered some motorhomes where the generator was started using the engine battery as well as others the coach/house battery. NOTE I even saw some where an on board motorhome genset HAD ITS OWN DEDICATED BATTERY right on the genset frame !!!!

However I question your other (assuming coach/house) battery is "just for starting the generator" as they are typically for 12 Volt lights, vent fans, water pumps etc. inside the coach........ I do agree as its typical the "engine starting battery is separate from everything else" aside from perhaps if it has an Emergency Switch/Solenoid for temporarily jumping the engine and coach/house batteries together.

 Hey if it works don't fix it maybe ??? lol

John T  

Edited by oldjohnt
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Aack! Ok, now I'm confused again. Sorry if my confusion is causing you guys to disagree. This is the 1st motorhome I've owned. Total beginner at 1st, but learning. I have 3 agm batteries for the coach, plus, I guess, the extra one under the hood, that seems to be mainly for starting the generator. Once I replaced the extra under the hood battery, I had no trouble starting the generator. The other hood battery is strictly for engine starting. I do have the Emergency Switch for help starting the engine, but it only works if the engine battery still has some charge. If the starter clicks when I turn the key, the Emergency Switch works with the generator running. I've never tried using it in reverse(to start the generator), but after reading what Lou said, I'll give it a try next time. I do know the solar/generator system does not charge the extra under the hood battery. I think? Ok, as I said I had my hips replaced, & haven't been boondocking  for 2yrs. I may be forgetting. In any case, thanks for all the help! Pepé(my motorhome) is working fine at the moment.

Scott

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1 hour ago, Fotoheart said:

I have 3 agm batteries for the coach, plus, I guess, the extra one under the hood, that seems to be mainly for starting the generator. Once I replaced the extra under the hood battery, I had no trouble starting the generator. The other hood battery is strictly for engine starting.

Hey don't get frustrated, not being there makes it difficult for us sparkies and even us long time motorhome users as well. 

BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST STATED and taking you at your word !!!!!!!!! Im thinking you have what I described above in my NOTE as the third albeit rare option I encountered over my many years where the Genset has its very own dedicated separate battery, while yours is under the hood versus right at the genset. Again, I saw gensets where the coach/house batteries started it,,,,,,,,,,Where the engine starting battery started it, and the third note option I mentioned above when it had its very own battery.

 It appears when your genset is running (or most likely also if plugged to shore power) it powers your RV's Converter/Charger which typically ONLY charges the coach/house batteries and that's what Id expect and sounds fine.  There are other methods including solid state dual battery isolators or mechanical solenoid arrangements used where the engines alternator might charge similar chemistry engine as well as coach batteries, but Im NOT opening that can of worms now lol.

 As long as EITHER (both should if working) the Converter/Charger (can be generator or shore powered) orrrrrrrrr the solar system charges your coach/house batteries,,,,,,,,the engines alternator charges your engine starting battery,,,,,,,,,,and the genset charges its own battery, thats all you need. As far as what other schemes you have and how wired I have no idea nor can I say what if anything is draining your engine or genset battery THATS BEYOND WHAT WE CAN DO OVER THE NET NOT BEING THERE.

  Typically the solar system ONLY charges the coach/house battery and NOT the engine starting battery, so that sounds fine.

 I have no idea sitting here how YOUR Genset battery is charged, but on the units I encountered with the gensets own battery they were charged when the genset was running such as a lawn mower might do. If thats what it has ??? and iffffffffffffff its working and ifffffffffffff its wired correctly???????? that will take care of the gensets own battery, if not thats a whole other can of worms 

Nuff said for now post back any questions but realize its hard to figure all this out over the net so NO WARRANTY

PS1 as far as the emergency switch, what that does is use a solenoid to basically jump/connect the engine and coach batteries together in parallel. Such being the case, either side can charge (or discharge) the other. IE it can work either way to charge either battery......   

PS2 when you stated  "Once I replaced the extra under the hood battery, I had no trouble starting the generator. The other hood battery is strictly for engine starting"    THAT SOUNDS LIKE your genset has its very own separate battery (my third option per my NOTE above) and I again take you at your word you have a separate battery used ONLY for engine starting......... 

John T

Edited by oldjohnt
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44 minutes ago, Fotoheart said:

Ok, now I'm confused again. Sorry if my confusion is causing you guys to disagree. This is the 1st motorhome I've owned. Total beginner at 1st, but learning.

The disagreement is about what is more common since I think that we all realize that there have been cases both ways. The issue should be figuring out what you have. I suggest that you run tests to see how yours is connected as it is the only way that I know of to be sure, since neither Lou nor I are close enough to help you. 

47 minutes ago, Fotoheart said:

I have 3 agm batteries for the coach, plus, I guess, the extra one under the hood, that seems to be mainly for starting the generator. Once I replaced the extra under the hood battery, I had no trouble starting the generator. The other hood battery is strictly for engine starting.

You have not said what your RV is so I'd sure like to know about the extra battery? It occurs to me that if you have a diesel you might have 2 batteries for starting the engine as that is pretty common for them and they are not always side by side. Some pictures of what you have would also help us to answer your questions. If you do have a diesel the 2 batteries near the engine may be connected in parallel and both be supplying the same loads. 

I think that what you are discribing is very different from what either Lou or I were thinking of since you seem to have an extra battery that neither of our opinions account for. What I would suggest you do in order to know with certainty is to lift the negative cables from all batteries except the one you believe is for starting the generator and then try starting it. If it does start you know but I would also try to determine if there is anything else getting power from that battery. Do all of this with no shore power connected to take the converter out of the loop. If your generator doesn't start, lift the negative cable from the one you now believe is for the generator and put back the one for the coach batteries and try again. It it still doesn't start, lift that one and put back the one for the chassis battery. One of the ways is pretty much bound to do the job. 

 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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On 9/16/2022 at 5:39 PM, Kirk W said:

It occurs to me that if you have a diesel you might have 2 batteries for starting the engine as that is pretty common for them and they are not always side by side.

Thats for sure, DITTO Ive seen many diesels with two batteries and often NOT side by side. Still, I've seen THREE option/methods to power onboard genset starting:  1) Engine battery,,,,,,,,2) Coach battery (majority I ran across over the years) ,,,,,, 3) Separate battery for only genset (least common but they exist, maybe he has that but no way to tell from here) 

 Oh well not being there and him being inexperienced we can't do much more grrrrrrrrrr 

Best wishes Kirk, hope us sparkies can help him figure it out

PS Fotoheart One more thing. In the event your engine starting battery (if it only has one) is staying charged and all working fine,,,,,,,And as you have three AGM Coach batteries,,,,,,,,,And in the event your genset indeed had its own starting battery (my NOTE option 3 if that's what you have??? I have no way of knowing from here so don't put much faith in this)

ONE OPTION would be to do away with the gensets own separate battery (if that's what it has ?) and switch it over to the three AGM coach batteries and let them start it and your Converter/Charger and/or Solar will keep them charged and be able to start the genset (plus you still have your emergency switch if needed to jump engine and AGM coach batteries together). IM ONLY SAYING THATS AN OPTION if all is fine as is no need. Again, I cant say from here what you have SO NO WARRANTY ON ANY OF THIS

John T

 

Edited by oldjohnt
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Hi Guys,

i feel like I'm making you guys work too hard. I'm sorry I hadn't mentioned what I had. It's a 23' 1990 Fleetwood Tioga Arrow on a Ford E-350 Econoline chassis. 7.5lt Engine, gas not diesel.

My main problem, the solar control display, has been solved.

I just never fully understood how the solar panel, 3 coach batteries, extra batt. under the hood, generator & converter/charger were connected, & if it was done properly. Normally, it all works fine. Occasionally, something would go wrong that made no sense to me. Like the engine starting batt. dying for no reason after say a week. A neighbor mentioned he had heard that some propane safety switches were wired to the starting batt. & could drain it, which mine was doing. That made no sense to me, because it could leave you stranded. We like to camp out in the woods, & there's usually no cell service or anything. We woke up one morning to not having enough power to start the generator or the engine. I think we were in too much shade for the solar panel to do it's job. That's when I started bringing a fold up solar panel, so I could find a spot of sun, & slowly charge up the extra under the hood batt. I also start the engine every few days, just in case.

As for what charges what, I know the generator, converter/charger & solar panel charges the 3 coach batts. Now that I think about it, I don't know what charges the extra hood batt. Of course the starter batt. is charged by the engine alternator.

I may try what Kirk mentioned to see if what that will tell me.

Sorry for the long windedness.

& thanks again for trying to help me understand with the little info I was giving you.

Scott

IMG_0050.JPG

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1 hour ago, Fotoheart said:

Sorry for the long windedness.

If you can, post a picture of the under-hood area that shows the 2 batteries. Also what type of battery is each one. The cranking battery should be a different type than the deep cyclle batteries that are normally used for the RV. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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6 hours ago, Fotoheart said:

As for what charges what, I know the generator, converter/charger & solar panel charges the 3 coach batts. Now that I think about it, I don't know what charges the extra hood batt. Of course the starter batt. is charged by the engine alternator.

Good morning Foto, thanks for the updates. The more info you can provide the better chances we have of helping you.

A) It sounds correct, typical and as you stated your converter/charger,,,,,,,,solar panels via the Solar Charge Controler,,,,,,,,,,,and generator due to the fact it powers your converter/charger same as shore power would charge your three AGM coach batteries SO FAR SO GOOD

B) It sounds correct the starter battery is charged by the engines alternator SO FAR SO GOOD (In addition some solid state dual battery isolators or solenoid arrangements made it possible for the alternator to charge BOTH engine and coach batteries, no idea if you have that) 

THE QUESTION REMAINS WHAT CHARGES THE "EXTRA" HOOD BATTERY AND WHAT IT IS USED FOR

 As I already stated in 50 years of motorhome use and sales in my THIRD NOTE OPTION (albeit rare) I saw a few Generators THAT HAD THEIR VERY OWN BATTERY instead of it being powered by the coach batteries (most common) or the engine battery (far less common). BUT I DONT KNOW FROM HERE WHAT YOU HAVE

 If ????????? (in line with what Kirk was talking about) your extra under the hood battery was used to start the generator ??????? Remove its cable and see if the generator starts then ?? If NOT that must be its purpose, mystery of extra battery solved. If it still starts fine MYSTERY REMAINS

 1) Iffffffffffff the generator uses its own my NOTE 3 option battery, they are typically charged by the genset same as small engines and lawnmowers etc.

 2) HOWEVER another option to charge the genset battery if it was indeed separate, is for the engines alternator to also (in addition to charging engine start battery) do that via some sort of a solid state dual battery isolator or even a solenoid arrangement.

NOTE typically (but not necessary) the battery used to start a genset (if it were its own stand alone)  would be an engine STARTING battery (same as regular engine starting battery) AND NOTTTTTTTTTTT a Deep Cycle. Deep Cycle batteries are common for the coach batteries while STARTING batteries are for engine starting or perhaps a genset??? PROBLEM IS if your extra under hood battery  is a Deep Cycle orrrrrrrrrrr a Starting Battery doesn't prove anything grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

While a picture may help, it's hard to say from here what that extra under hood battery is for and what charges it ???????? 

If (like Kirk spoke of) you remove a cable and the engine wont crank thats the engine start battery...........If you remove a cable (extra under hood battery) and the genset wont crank thats a separate my NOTE 3 option genset starting battery...........  If you remove the third under hood battery but the genset still starts THEN ITS PURPOSE AND HOW IT GETS CHARGED REMAINS A MYSTERY   Possible uses may be such as:

 1) It was at one time used for the coach battery and may (especially if originally was a Deep Cycle) or may not be still in parallel with your three AGM coach batteries ???????? (If so your converter/charger or solar would charge it)

 2) It may be for the generator only as my NOTE 3 option mentioned ?????????

 3) It could be something else ??? 

 Hope this helps, its the best I can do not being there, so give these tips a try and post back your findings and any more questions

 John T

 

Edited by oldjohnt
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Thanks so much, again!

It's pouring here right now, so when it slows down, I'll get a pic of under the hood. I don't think it will show you anything new. Due to most of the engine access being inside, & the big K&N air cleaner, you can't see much under the hood. I do know that both the hood batts are typical wet cells. The 3 AGM coach batts are deep cycle.

Scott

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2 hours ago, Fotoheart said:

I do know that both the hood batts are typical wet cells. The 3 AGM coach batts are deep cycle.

That doesn't surprise me and unfortunately it doesn't help much. If the extra under the hood battery was originally (although more common would have been a Deep Cycle but over the years maybe got changed) for the Coach, its cables would have been relatively large, while if it were ONLY to start the generator (NOT typical but Ive seen it used in motorhomes, coach batteries were more commonly used to start generators) perhaps not quite as big. Also, some coaches used a solid state dual battery isolator in which case the engines alternator could charge BOTH engine and coach battery or a solenoid that could accomplish the same. Id say you can probably see which battery is for the engine so that only leaves the extra battery in question. Just see if the generator starts and then disconnect one of the extra battery cables and if it doesn't crank then YOU FOUND THAT MYSTERY BATTERY IS FOR THE GENERATOR which typically charges itself like a lawn mower does.

If starting from scratch and you have three good deep cycle AGM coach batteries and found the extra battery was for the generator ??? I have NO idea... Id do away with it and let the three AGM coach batteries power the generator. As long as the Solar and/or the Genset or shore power powers your converter/charger to maintain the coach batteries they are fine,,,,,,,As long as the alternator charges the engine starting battery you're fine,,,,,,,,,,Just figure out what the extra battery is for ?? and how its charged ?? is all that's needed but if it works and stays charged IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT LOL.

Even if it works as is and I had three good matched AGM coach batteries which solar and/or converter/charger maintained, I would NOT want an extra non matched conventional wet flooded lead acid in a more remote location connected in parallel with the other three matched AGM;s    

 You may be over worrying or over thinking all this, sure pics may help but try disconnecting that extra under the hood battery to see what if anything stops working, let me know and post back any more questions. This would be soooooooooooooo easy of there lol but glad to help the best I can

John T 

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On 9/20/2022 at 5:52 PM, oldjohnt said:

Just see if the generator starts and then disconnect one of the extra battery cables and if it doesn't crank then YOU FOUND THAT MYSTERY BATTERY IS FOR THE GENERATOR which typically charges itself like a lawn mower does.

Ok, I did that & zero generator cranking. Mystery battery solved! From what you said about a lawn mower, the generator charges up that battery. It also charges up the coach batteries. Is it possible for the gen batt to be wired into the coach batts &/or solar display? Because as I mentioned before, the gen won't start unless the display shows the voltage around 11v or higher.

I probably am overthinking this, & it is working fine again. Here's the pics you asked for-sorry for the delay. I'll post again with close ups since there's a 100kb limit per post.

IMG_0767.jpeg

IMG_0768.jpeg

IMG_0769.jpeg

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21 hours ago, Fotoheart said:

Ok, I did that & zero generator cranking. Mystery battery solved! From what you said about a lawn mower, the generator charges up that battery. It also charges up the coach batteries. Is it possible for the gen batt to be wired into the coach batts &/or solar display? Because as I mentioned before, the gen won't start unless the display shows the voltage around 11v or higher.

THANKS for the update, here's my response and answers:

1) It appears your extra under the hood battery may well be what I first guessed way up above in my third NOTE option, it was for the generator ??????????? Still no warranty not being there sorry. The other two methods whereby motorhomes can start the generator were by using the coach battery (most common per some above) ORRRRRRR the Engine battery (less common per some above)......... 

2) YESSSSSSSSSS its possible for the gen battery to be wired in parallel with your three AGM coach batteries..

 YESSSSSSSSSS it makes sense if the genny battery and/or batteries connected with it in parallel are low voltage the genny cant crank and it supports the genny and coach batteries MAY BE in parallel  NO WARRANTY 

3) If the genny has its own charging circuit ??? and ifffffffffffff its battery is connected in parallel with your three AGM coach batteries ??? it could also help charge the coach batteries but those are typically very low amperage.

Its possible (IF genny battery is in parallel with coach batteries) some of the cables on the green genny battery wire down to your three AGM coach batteries while the other(s) are what wire to the generator to start it.  

FYI NOTE Even if it can work IM NOT A FAN OF CONNECTING DIFFERENT BRAND, AGE, STYLE, CHEMISTRY, LOCATION, BATTERIES IN PARALLEL !!!!!!!!!!! What Im saying is I DO NOT LIKE AN UNDER THE HOOD WET FLOODED LEAD ACID BATTERY USED IN PARALLEL WITH THREE SEPARATE AGM COACH BATTERIES  even if sure it works !!!!!!!!

OPTIONS 1) If it aint broke dont fix it leave it as is where is......... 2) I would consider doing away with the extra under the hood genny battery and let the three AGM coach batteries power it. Thats the more common method per some (including mine) opinions above and can work fine if wired correctly. PS MY preference (IFFFFFFFF its as it appears??) would be to use the three AGM coach batteries to power the genset. That would be easy to convert if you go that route and need help post back.......

There ya go thats my best new guesses not being there !!!!!!!!!

 John T

Edited by oldjohnt
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I had a similar RV some years back, a Travelcraft Class C about the same size as that Tigoa.   The second battery under the hood was installed by the factory as the generator starting and house battery.  A previous owner added additional house batteries in a different location wiring them across the factory installed battery so they also started the generator and supplied the house lights.

A solenoid cross-connected the main engine starting battery and the house batteries whenever the ignition switch was on so the engine alternator could charge all of them.  You could also energize the cross-connect solenoid via a dash switch so the main engine battery could boost start the generator.  Once the generator was running it would charge the house batteries by supplying 120 VAC to the converter.

Edited by Lou Schneider
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