New power cord aid device?

[Kirk W]

I just became aware of this product and am wondering if anyone here has any knowledge of it or has personally used one? I have always been a skeptic on completly new products until they have been around for a while and I have a chance to visit with someone who used it. It would be really interesting to see a schmetac for one of them and maybe get a look inside?

The SoftStartUp™ All-In-One Soft Start & Surge Protector

[Trainer]

Kirk,  This is a 30 amp device for the sale price of $600.  For that amount of money, I can purchase two soft starts specific for the A/Cs which is what the soft start is needed for.  That way my 50 amp coach is covered.  So, no deal for me.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Trainer

[D&J]

I know I've been retired from my electric/ refrigeration business for a few years but I don't think you can magically soft start a compressor without being directly connected to the start winding. 

Denny

[oldjohnt]

  Kirk, NO I do not own one personally, however, I have studied, followed, read about and watched nearly every You Tube video out there for over a year and FWIW in my rusty old retired electrical engineer's opinion, believe they are beneficial.. With a Soft Start (unless ALL tests I've seen are a fraud) it's possible to start a 13,500 Rooftop AC with a 2200 Watt genset.. I am going to order one for my home AC. They significantly reduce the initial current surge when a compressor starts and instead softly ramp it up and actually take time to learn the starting characteristics before programming the best start curve. Here are a few You Tube vids I watched and like the ones that recorded the starting current with and without the soft start. Again, I can't say and don't know if the tests are a fraud, but so many agree and many are from reputable sources (check out any of Mike Sokols reviews) JUDGE FOR YOURSELF maybe they are a fraud and junk but I don't think so.

(52) Micro-Air EasyStart Home A/C Installation - YouTube

 

(52) soft start rv air conditioner - YouTube

 The original versions you had to cut n splice to install at the AC's start winding  and capacitor connections, they they offered no splice spade connection methods, then they added Surge Protection, then they added plug n play at the pedestal (see next paragraph)

IMPORTANT NOTE The ones I spoke of and studied test results about were wired to the AC's start winding and capacitor circuits NOT plug n play at the pedestal so how do I know they work as well?? I DONT 

See what the "experts" have to say and again NO I don't own one so I DO NOT  have the personal experience you asked for, hopefully, some actual owners can help us all ????????

BOTTOM LINE if I were to buy one for the benefit of my RV AC I would buy the Soft Start Alone wired direct into my AC circuit and NOT add the surge protection and NOT buy the plug n play. 

John T  Also skeptical but becoming less regarding this device

Edited August 12, 2022 by oldjohnt

[mptjelgin]

There is a Mike Sokol video on the SoftStartUP site with what looks to be legitimate test of the product, with amperage surge readings. It appears that the device actually "clamps" the available current during start-up to prevent overloading breakers, generators, etc. It is an interesting way to accomplish a "Soft Start" but, based on this video,  appears to work. 

One wonders what the voltage drop at the A/C unit might look like during start-up with the available current limited. 

Mike Sokol SoftStartUP review video.

[oldjohnt]

34 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

There is a Mike Sokol video on the SoftStartUP site with what looks to be legitimate test of the product

Thanks for that info. Ive been to his seminars he does good work

John T

[Ray,IN]

In my mind I've been balancing the SoftStart theory against the old axiom of reducing current to an inductive motor is slowly and permanently damaging the motor until it eventually fails.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

[Dutch_12078]

37 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

In my mind I've been balancing the SoftStart theory against the old axiom of reducing current to an inductive motor is slowly and permanently damaging the motor until it eventually fails.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

What part of the motor do you think it might be damaging?

[D&J]

45 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

What part of the motor do you think it might be damaging?

It's going to damage the start windings,  start capacitor and start relay. Start caps are designed to be in the circuit for milliseconds and the start windings are designed for low current and the longer you delay full current so it came make high starting torque the higher the winding current going to be causing heat. It won't happen right away but over time it will degrade the components.

Denny

Edited August 13, 2022 by D&J

[Dutch_12078]

38 minutes ago, D&J said:

It's going to damage the start windings,  start capacitor and start relay. Start caps are designed to be in the circuit for milliseconds and the start windings are designed for low current and the longer you delay full current so it came make high starting torque the higher the winding current going to be causing heat. It won't happen right away but over time it will degrade the components.

Denny

So I guess I should expect the hard start kits I installed on my roof A/C's in 2013 to cause the compressors to fail any minute now?  

[D&J]

7 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

So I guess I should expect the hard start kits I installed on my roof A/C's in 2013 to cause the compressors to fail any minute now?  

Actually a true hard start kit starts the compressor faster if it's sized to the unit. 

Denny

[Dutch_12078]

1 hour ago, D&J said:

Actually a true hard start kit starts the compressor faster if it's sized to the unit. 

Denny

I don't recall now which brand I bought, but they did cut the starting current down significantly. Not quite in half, but close...

[Kirk W]

13 hours ago, oldjohnt said:

They significantly reduce the initial current surge when a compressor starts and instead softly ramp it up and actually take time to learn the starting characteristics before programming the best start curve. Here are a few You Tube vids I watched and like the ones that recorded the starting current with and without the soft start.

John, you missed the entire question. I didn't ask about the soft start kits that have been around for some time and not only are proven, but they use technology that has been in use in some equipmtent for a long time. But my question was, and is about the new SoftStartUp device that is claiming to do that for an entire, 30a RV. 

My question remains, do you have any experience with this device or personally know someone who does? It is impressive, if it works. I have seen schmatics for soft start circuits but doubt that this device uses the same technology. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Kirk W
add a thought

[D&J]

8 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

I don't recall now which brand I bought, but they did cut the starting current down significantly. Not quite in half, but close...

Trying to measure start current with a meter takes a very special meter. If you have a standard digital meter it's to slow to react, a old analog works better but still won't record true inrush current. I always keep a old Amprobe meter (the name brand) in my truck for checking start circuits. When a motor starts the inrush current is always the same but a hard start kit starts it faster so the high start current last for a shorter period so the meter doesn't have a chance to measure it accurately and if your trying to start it on a marginal generator it's fast enough that the generator circuit doesn't see it. This new device is NOT wired into the start circuit and it limits (clamps) the total current witch will keep the start circuit energized longer causing higher current flow in the start windings that will be damaging over time.

Denny

 

[Dutch_12078]

14 minutes ago, D&J said:

Trying to measure start current with a meter takes a very special meter. If you have a standard digital meter it's to slow to react, a old analog works better but still won't record true inrush current. I always keep a old Amprobe meter (the name brand) in my truck for checking start circuits. When a motor starts the inrush current is always the same but a hard start kit starts it faster so the high start current last for a shorter period so the meter doesn't have a chance to measure it accurately and if your trying to start it on a marginal generator it's fast enough that the generator circuit doesn't see it. This new device is NOT wired into the start circuit and it limits (clamps) the total current witch will keep the start circuit energized longer causing higher current flow in the start windings that will be damaging over time.

Denny

 

I used an Amprobe clamp-on that records peaks...

[Kirk W]

1 minute ago, D&J said:

This new device is NOT wired into the start circuit and it limits (clamps) the total current witch will keep the start circuit energized longer causing higher current flow in the start windings that will be damaging over time.

That is exactly the thought that came to my mind, but I also learned years ago that problems I once thought impossible to overcome occasionally are by new technology. To see the device operate once or twice may prove that it works but it isn't proof that there will be no long term damage.  I read the specs sheets completely and it gives no hint of the answers that you & I are looking for.  This is the seller's explaination of how it works. I only recently became aware of the product and I have read several reviews of it but none really answer the questions that I have. I also am wondering how long they have been on the market? If the device is what it claims to be and has no bad long-term effects, then it ia a big step forward. I am not saying that it doesn't work, only that marketing information isn't enough alone to get me to spend $599 with it one special, let along the $899 of their full price. 

[Trainer]

Well Kirk, what besides the A/C on a 30 amp rv needs a soft start?

A $300 device will handle the A/C, so why do you need a $600 device?

My understanding is resistive loads such as the toaster oven do no have a surge current common to inductive loads such as the compressor of the A/C.

[Dutch_12078]

5 minutes ago, Trainer said:

Well Kirk, what besides the A/C on a 30 amp rv needs a soft start?

A $300 device will handle the A/C, so why do you need a $600 device?

My understanding is resistive loads such as the toaster oven do no have a surge current common to inductive loads such as the compressor of the A/C.

Residential refrigerators come to mind, although the LRA's are typically well below A/C's.

[D&J]

7 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

I used an Amprobe clamp-on that records peaks...

But how fast is it?

You can take any motor and measure the resistance and you will find it's almost a dead short and when you apply power that's the inrush current and you can't change that but the faster the motor starts and builds inductive reactance (resistance) the shorter the inrush current time. 

Denny

 

[Trainer]

Dutch, I agree with you on the fridge.  But they usually start on a smaller generator than will start an A/C.  And the compressors run for years and years.

My coach is 50 amp so it does not apply to me no matter how wonderful it might be.

[Dutch_12078]

4 minutes ago, D&J said:

But how fast is it?

You can take any motor and measure the resistance and you will find it's almost a dead short and when you apply power that's the inrush current and you can't change that but the faster the motor starts and builds inductive reactance (resistance) the shorter the inrush current time. 

Denny

 

The meter was lost several years ago, so I can't check the model for the specs, but in other uses, it usually agreed fairly closely with the rated start load unless there was problem causing a higher than expected reading. That was the reason for needing the reading in that case, for trouble shooting.

[oldjohnt]

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

My question remains, do you have any experience with this device or personally know someone who does? It is impressive, if it works. I have seen schmatics for soft start circuits but doubt that this device uses the same technology. 

Thanks for the update Kirk, Actually, I didn't miss but understood your question perfectly and why I discussed BOTH the general concept of Soft Star technology in general (Read above, looks like I'm NOT the only one who discussed the technology in general instead of the specific unit or had the personal experience you asked for lol) AS WELL AS my bottom line where it's my preference NOT to use any all in one but instead prefer an installation AT THE AC START WINDING  AND CAPACITOR. I sure hope this helps clear up any confusion. Oh the imperfections of limited written words on these Forums lol

AGAIN No I have no personal experience but gave reasons why I DO NOT prefer the device you listed. Hopefully someone who owns one and has personal experience that you asked for can help all of us  

 Best wishes Kirk, sorry for any confusion, great question I hope you get the answer you are looking for, hey I tried my best, SURELY SOMEBODY THAT OWNS ONE AS YOU ASKED WILL STILL CHIME IN  ???????

John T

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by oldjohnt

[Dutch_12078]

1 minute ago, Trainer said:

Dutch, I agree with you on the fridge.  But they usually start on a smaller generator than will start an A/C.  And the compressors run for years and years.

My coach is 50 amp so it does not apply to me no matter how wonderful it might be.

Yes, as I noted the fridges draw a lot less than A/C's, making the soft start less useful. Like you, my coach is also 50 amp, but I installed the hard start kits years ago so I could run both A/C's when on a 30 amp hookup. I wouldn't spend the $600 for this device just for that though. The hard start kits were around $30 as I recall, but that was almost 10 years ago.

[Lou Schneider]

Thirty years ago I bought a $20 device for a household refrigerator that simply plugged in between the refrigerator and the wall outlet.  It corrected the power factor (phase angle) of the incoming current.

Restoring the power factor to unity made the refrigerator run noticibly quieter and reduced it's power consumption by about a third.  As a bonus keeping the phase angle in check reduced the compressor's starting surge as noted by the lack of incandescent bulb flicker when it started.  Later this technology was incorporated into many refrigerators when the Energy Star standards came into effect.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Lou Schneider

[oldjohnt]

4 minutes ago, Lou Schneider said:

Thirty years ago I bought a $20 device for a household refrigerator that simply plugged in between the refrigerator and the wall outlet.  It monitored and corrected the phase angle of the incoming current.

Hey Lou, I remember such technology as well. Far back in the day we were utilizing Power Factor Correction Capacitors and other such devices to help offset all our highly inductive and motor loads WORKED GREAT.   

 Best wishes yall

John T