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What about Target? I never hear folks complain about it, or Bass Pro Shops or Costco? Why do they skate by when everyone complains about Wally world? I don't shop Target or Bass Pro much but do shop Costco and Wally World. All our gasoline we get from Costco despite being able to save a penny at most to drive across town. I don't hate them or have any reason other than I don't like their selections and layout. We can't speak to grocery shopping as we do almost all of that at the Commissary at one of the three bases here, and a little at Trader Joe's, and occasionally for sales King Soopers (Part of Kroger's.) 

 Vendors are vendors and can be replaced easily if they don't offer any value added, be that price, speed, stock, and ease of problem resolution. Or all of them.

I am tickled we all have so many choices both locally owned, and big box.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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I guess we all generalise. But I think most of us lament the changes in retail. Choice and price has replaced service. Our choice! Just like the blacksmith lamented the change to gasoline. Now to EVs!!

I watched a TV show a while back about how Walmart was accused of sending the last USA made TV set manufacturer out of business. RCA. I thought that was 'fact' After all it was on TV so it must have been true. Right? Well I just Googled and found this site. http://www.tvhistory.tv/1960-2000-TVManufacturers.htm Poof, there goes my perception of the 'truth'. What we 'think' and what is 'fact' may not be the same. Mind you can you believe what you read on the internet?

Point being that we all look at the world through a pair of glasses that have different lenses in them.

 

 

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20 hours ago, bruce t said:

Point being that we all look at the world through a pair of glasses that have different lenses in them

That is so true. In reality, no television is truly made in the USA because so many of its components are imported.

List of Televisions That Are Assembeled in America

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As of the date of this publication, Olevia is a U.S. based company that manufactures LCD and LED TVs.

Silo Digital, owned and operated in California, creates TVs and computer monitors. As of the date of this publication, Silo Digital manufacturers both LCD and LED TV models.

Phillips Magnavox is company owned in the Netherlands with manufacturing plants in several locations worldwide, including Malaysia, Mexico, Thailand, China and the U.S. While the majority of Phillips Magnavox's TV models are assembled overseas, some projection TV models are assembled in the U.S.

Panasonic is based in Japan, but has manufacturing plants in Malaysia, the U.S. and a few other countries. While many Panasonic TV models are assembled in Malaysia, the company does sell a few TV models assembled in the U.S. 

Vizio, a California-based company, manufacturers LCD and LED HDTVs as well as TV accessories and other electronics, such as tablet PCs.

The Sharp Electronics Corporation, based in New Jersey, is a division of the original Sharp company based in Japan. 

While Toshiba is a Japan-based company, the TV manufacturer assembles some televisions models in the U.S.

 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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We talk of Mom and Pop or local stores versus Walmart or some other big store yet it is just a matter of scale. Walmart, Target, Kroger, Lowes, and Walgreens all started as small local shops or operations. They all had very ambitious owners that started them down the path to US and in some cases international super stores. Who knows? Some of the local stores today could become the super store of tomorrow if the owner is ambitious enough.

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4 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Walmart, Target, Kroger, Lowes, and Walgreens all started as small local shops or operations.

It is interesting what is happening in the retail market. This article is a couple of years old but it gives one of the best explainations I have seen. I think that Covid has increased the move to internet shopping in by increasing the speed of change but most of it was already coming.

The History and Evolution of Retail Stores: From Mom and Pop to Online Shops

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Today, there is something of a generational divide in how people like to shop. Of Baby Boomers who grew up with brick-and-mortar as their default, 72% primarily shop in-store. This is in contrast to Millennials, 67% of whom shop in online stores.

 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Interesting that WalMart, Target and KMart all began in 1962.  Also, that shopping online is now the way to go.

Full-timed for 16 Years
Traveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Motorhome
and 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

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19 hours ago, Kirk W said:

That is what we use. I haven't had anything delivered because I'm too cheap.  😊

We sometimes use Walmart's free delivery, but not usually for grocery items.

Dutch
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Of Baby Boomers who grew up with brick-and-mortar as their default, 72% primarily shop in-store.

I guess I am part of the 28% then because I have shopped online as much as possible and have since being able to do so. 

Edited by Chalkie

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6 hours ago, Chalkie said:

I guess I am part of the 28% then because I have shopped online as much as possible and have since being able to do so. 

Me, too. I am thrilled to find clothing I like so I can just keep ordering it when I need more.

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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Full-timed for 16 Years
Traveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Motorhome
and 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

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Boomer here too and we shop mostly online including Marketplace and some other classified type sales websites.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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I wonder if so many of us shop online because that was easier to do when roaming the country? We didn't spend a lot of time in cities with department stores or shopping malls.

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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8 hours ago, sandsys said:

I wonder if so many of us shop online because that was easier to do when roaming the country? We didn't spend a lot of time in cities with department stores or shopping malls.

Linda

I don't think so. The best places to buy local are the small communities that are still trying to survive the big city draw from their markets where the department stores and shopping malls are, or were. Shopping malls have really gone bare from the online shopping their customers started to do, many of them in the very neighborhood they lived in. 

Thankfully the overhead in a small community is much less and hopefully the good stores will survive. 

 

Rod

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

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The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. 

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1 hour ago, lappir said:

The best places to buy local are the small communities that are still trying to survive the big city draw from their markets where the department stores and shopping malls are, or were.

The vast majority of the population live in the larger cities. Would you then advocate that those of us who live in a large city area drive back out to small towns to do our shopping? We have 2 Walmart super stores, a Target super store, a Tom Thumb, Albertson's, Kroger, and Aldi's stores all within 5 miles. The nearest independent grocery store that I'm aware of is about 60 miles away. There is an independent hardware store that is only 40 miles away but if there are any closer, I'm not sure where they are. 

1 hour ago, lappir said:

Shopping malls have really gone bare from the online shopping their customers started to do, many of them in the very neighborhood they lived in. 

I had not really thought of it but we have not been inside of a mall since well before the Covid shutdown. But as we think back, we pretty much stopped visiting shopping malls when we were on the road fulltime, at least partly due to the fact that we could park the motorhom with towed at pretty much any shopping center but it was welcome at few if any of the large malls. But that brings the question, are we still part of the shopping mall's target market age group? Back in the 80's and 90's we were, but not so much today. I think that currently the larger shopping centers that were replaced by shopping malls are once more returning and the malls seem to be going away.

Edited by Kirk W

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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52 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

The vast majority of the population live in the larger cities. Would you then advocate that those of us who live in a large city area drive back out to small towns to do our shopping? We have 2 Walmart super stores, a Target super store, a Tom Thumb, Albertson's, Kroger, and Aldi's stores all within 5 miles. The nearest independent grocery store that I'm aware of is about 60 miles away. There is an independent hardware store that is only 40 miles away but if there are any closer, I'm not sure where they are. 

I had not really thought of it but we have not been inside of a mall since well before the Covid shutdown. But as we think back, we pretty much stopped visiting shopping malls when we were on the road fulltime, at least partly due to the fact that we could park the motorhom with towed at pretty much any shopping center but it was welcome at few if any of the large malls. But that brings the question, are we still part of the shopping mall's target market age group? Back in the 80's and 90's we were, but not so much today. I think that currently the larger shopping centers that were replaced by shopping malls are once more returning and the malls seem to be going away.

Maybe there aren't any independent grocers in your area but Austin has a ton of them. Here is a article highlighting some of them. Mind you, these are only the ones this article chose to highlight as there are more. This doesn't even account for all the carnicerias, many of which are small grocers as well, or the specialty grocers like the oriental or Vietnamese markets around. And the nearest Ace Hardware to you is 40 miles? 

The shopping malls I have been around growing up and later on in life were all built on vacant land at or beyond the edge of current development. Just like folks blaming he big box stores for killing the mom and pop stores, the malls killed many a downtown area. Why face the traffic and parking when every store you thought you needed was there under one roof? It is that one roof that is killing the malls today. Every store in a mall is charged rent which is calculated on a certain percentage of occupancy. If all the space is occupied it creates a certain synergy amongst all the stores. When the occupancy falls so do the numbers of visitors to all the still open stores. The thing that keeps me out of a mall today is that they have become a place for gangs and rowdy teens to hang out. 

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1 hour ago, Chalkie said:

Maybe there aren't any independent grocers in your area

What I listed was the stores that are less than 5 miles from where we live. In reading your article it only mentions 5 different ones and one of them is a 6 store chain. Since Austin area now has about 1 million people I am very doubtful that there is one of those stores located 5 miles or less from a very large share of the population. I also read that entire article and they all are discribed similarly.

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Both the Brazos and Congress locations boast outdoor seating where you can drink the beer, wine, or coffee you just bought. .......

Make sure not to dismiss this grocer’s food items. They make dishes as diverse and interesting as white bean arugula pasta with chicken, to salami and Gouda sandwiches. They cater, too, for breakfast, lunch, or appetizers.

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RiverCity Market is a quaint, quirky space stuffed with a mixture of convenient and unique items. The deli serves breakfast and lunch, including build-your-own breakfast tacos, and an array of fresh dishes such as Korean meatballs, butternut squash, homemade enchiladas, and much more.

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Shopping at Wheatsville Co-op is a learning experience. You will always see something you’ve never heard of and will likely be encouraged to stretch your boundaries.

My favorite section is the “Bulk: pinch or pound” area, where you self-serve a vast array of food products, including rice, cereals, oats, and even dark chocolate ginger. There is a similar system for tea.

I did a search of the internet for local grocery stores in the Dallas area and the list consisted of stores like Sprouts and Whole Foods, both of which are chains. There are numerous small ethinic grocery stores in parts of the city complex but not many marketing to the typical anglo citizen. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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There's a lot of shopping within five miles from us but it all appears to be big name places like Target and Cub Foods. We have a few independent restaurants but they usually don't stay around very long while places like Perkins and Red Robin have been here for years. If we go out to a ten mile radius then we hit some former small towns that have become suburbs that still had a few independent places (like a butcher shop) along their main streets but I haven't been there since before covid hit so I don't know if they are still there. 

The only local place I'm sure is still around is Broadway Pizza which started at Broadway Bar in north Minneapolis (where friends took us to try them in the early 1970s) and spread out to a few suburbs including ours. They now have 11 locations all within the 554 or 553 zip codes except one down in Rochester, MN.

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

What I listed was the stores that are less than 5 miles from where we live. In reading your article it only mentions 5 different ones and one of them is a 6 store chain. Since Austin area now has about 1 million people I am very doubtful that there is one of those stores located 5 miles or less from a very large share of the population. I also read that entire article and they all are discribed similarly.

I did a search of the internet for local grocery stores in the Dallas area and the list consisted of stores like Sprouts and Whole Foods, both of which are chains. There are numerous small ethinic grocery stores in parts of the city complex but not many marketing to the typical anglo citizen. 

If you were to map the locations of all these stores I think you would find they are all located in fairly heavily populated areas of the city. Yes, there are 6 stores but that, to me, is still not a real chain as I doubt the square footage of all combined equals one HEB Plus. As a frequent shopper in these ethnic groceries I can say there is an awful lot that is typical for this "anglo" citizen. 

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One of the benefits of malls is the weather. Be is snow or heat you can park and once in side it's a climate controlled environment.

Just a comment/note. We spent 8 years in the USA. US malls aren't what they once were. You can fire a shot gun in most malls now days and not hit anyone. (No I'm not advocating anyone try). Without the likes of Macys and JC Penny the malls wouldn't exit. Here in Australia a mall can be a nightmare to find a park and a nightmare to elbow your way around. Big malls are still top of the feeding chain. Why? No idea but my guess is that most Americans prefer the box store model.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Yes, there are 6 stores but that, to me, is still not a real chain as I doubt the square footage of all combined equals one HEB Plus.

Which goes back to my earlier statement that one must first define exactly what makes a store a local one. Your 6 store chain is clearly not one operated by the people who own it, like Ray's Apple Market in Council Grove or Hilard's Hardware in Van where the owners and their family actually work in the store. It seems that you disagree based on your perameters which are different than mine but without defining them. 

Edited by Kirk W
typo

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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3 hours ago, bruce t said:

One of the benefits of malls is the weather. Be is snow or heat you can park and once in side it's a climate controlled environment.

I live in Minnesota where winter lasts six months of the year. Some of our malls have attached parking ramps so you don't go outside at all. The side of the ramps are open to the outside but you never get snowed on and you never have to dig out your car when ready to leave.

On the other hand, we also have "lifestyle" malls where the shops are simply connected by outdoor sidewalks. I have no idea who thought they should build those here. :)

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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It seems to me that what we used to call a shopping center, with a collection of stores sharing a large parkinglot but each one with their own outside entrance were what we all thought were to be replaced by the shopping mall with one or two entrances and every store sharing a central mall area was to be the shopping plan of the future? At least in this area we seem to have returned to the shopping center idea for most new shopping areas. When the Mall of America opened in Bloomington, MN in 1992 that was to be the wave of the future with more than 500 stores, a movie theater, an indoor amusement park, and a host of other attractions. While they seem to be thriving now after 30 years, as far as I know there have been no other malls that even come close to what they are? And yet we have several new shopping centers expanding or just starting, even today.

When we discuss shopping via the internet as the new way of shopping, I chuckle a bit because to me it is just the modern version of what my parents did back in the 1950's on the farm, where they did most of their shopping from the Sears & Robuck and the Mongomery Wards catalogs. Local merchants used to complain at times that catalog sales had an unfair advantage.  

Edited by Kirk W

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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10 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Which goes back to my earlier statement that one must first define exactly what makes a store a local one. Your 6 store chain is clearly not one operated by the people who own it, like Ray's Apple Market in Council Grove or Hilard's Hardware in Van where the owners and their family actually work in the store. It seems that you disagree based on your perameters which are different than mine but without defining them. 

What on earth makes you say that? By that definition a store can have no employees, it must be owned and operated by one person. Good grief!

As it so happens the grocery, Royal Blue is owned by one person, Craig Staley, with the assistance of his employees. 

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1 hour ago, Chalkie said:

What on earth makes you say that? By that definition a store can have no employees, it must be owned and operated by one person. Good grief!

As it so happens the grocery, Royal Blue is owned by one person, Craig Staley, with the assistance of his employees. 

Nowhere did I make such a statement. You just did it again. I doubt that I have ever been in a store with no employees. 

Edited by Kirk W

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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