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Moving into an small trailer for grad school and need all the guidance


clashfn

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Hey everyone,

I'm new here and will definitely dive into all the existing posts  - just wanted to throw my story out there and see if you've got any tips.

I'm starting grad school in August and am going to be living full time in a friends backyard in Portland, OR. I don't have a trailer yet but I'm looking to find something around 16' and will have a composting toilet and a (somewhat) legal branched graywater drain system. I also won't be moving it for at least two years if that matters. 

The biggest questions I have are about surviving a wet and cold winter (though I'll take all the tips you have):

- I obviously can't tarp/cover the trailer for winter, but do I need to do anything special to the roof? I don't think I can build a proper carport either but is there something else I should do for the constant rain?

- I plan on skirting the trailer with plywood, think that's enough?

- For under the trailer I plan on digging down a few inches, laying some landscape fabric, and putting down gravel. Then some large cement squares for under the wheels/supports. Would this work? It will be going on a lawn so I want to make sure I don't sink.

- The electric hookup I have is a 10amp circuit. This is pretty foreign to me. I won't have many electric things so I think I can manage, but what kind of converter would I need?

- I'll buy a heated water hose so I think I'm set there. 

- Do I have to worry much about pipes freezing/exploding if I'm living in it full time?

- Are there trailers that are a better fit for winter living? Like more insulated or something? I've seen posts mention 'four season' but I'm not sure what that really means. 

- Are there places where I can hire someone to come look at a potential trailer with me before I buy it? I've studied up quite a lot on what to look for when buying a used camper but I don't really trust myself. Is this something people do? 

Anything else massive I'm forgetting?

 

Cheers and thanks in advance,

.Matthew 

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Welcome and you ask very good questions in preparation for your new lifestyle.

Northwood is a brand built in the PNW, bu as to finding used might be a task.  Roof integrity is a good idea since it runs downhill from the roof.  If you want to consider some DIY roof repair coatings, lean toward Liquid Roof and NOT toward silicone based products like what is sold at Home Centers.  Those are not designed for RVs and their unique conditions plus they make the roof slick and unsafe to walk on with ANY amount of moisture on it.

Skirting is a good idea as it will help the conditioned envelope for heating and cooling.  Note that using the RV furnace, they are about 30%+ efficient and as such use 3X the fuel to accomplish the necessary warming.  Looking at catalytic heaters or electric, but that will require a larger cord and service and may be more costly, although propane costs too.  You could lease a large (100# or bigger) tank from a local supplier that will fill it as needed.  Make sure to ask about service fees for this, as they do vary by company.

It is likely that you will have a 10 amp service, minimum is 15 amp but most common is 30 amp.

There may be some folks to do inspections of trailer candidates, I have found them on Craigslist or try local RV companies.  Often they work indepedently and as such can be hired for this.  Recommendations are good as there are also people who claim they know what they are doing and dont(which is part of the reason why you are going to school.  Have they?).

Marcel

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Have you spent any time in Portland?  Winters are not cold.  Daytime temps are almost always above freezing even in the Dec-Jan dead of winter.  Even nighttime temps rarely get more than a few degrees below freezing.  A little heat tape and/or pipe wrap should do it for the water system.  You can avoid that on the fresh water side if you just periodically fill the water tank and then disconnect the hose.  

Utilities are the concern.  First a 10 amp service does not sound right.  Home wiring is almost always 15 or 20 amps.  If that is all you have, that should work fine for lights, battery charging and a small space heater.  You would need to turn off the space heater if you use a microwave or other major power hungry device.   Waste water is another issue.  Even minimal dishwashing and showers can generate at least 5 gallons a day and trying to get by with less becomes difficult.  Even if not illegal, dumping 5 or more gallons a day of grey water will be an issue.  That would result in a smelly, boggy mess over time.  You should resolve that issue before you proceed.   

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@rpsinc Cheers, thanks for the info about liquid roof. And I'll definitely look into the catalytic heaters. Since I plan on this being home for a few years I'm okay with investing a bit more upfront. 

@Will B. Awesome, that's exactly what I was looking for. There are two in Portland I'll reach out to.

@JimK Yeah, I grew up in Portland but moved abroad when I was 18. It's definitely not midwest winders or anything too bad, but I'd say we dip below freezing pretty often some winters. I guess that's what I was wondering - if it only hits 30 degrees on occasional nights, do pipes freeze/burst? Or does it take a longer time at a much lower temperature for that to become a real worry? It sounds like I'll be okay with heat tape/pipe wrap so I'll give that a go.
About the electricity, I'll be hooked up to the garage and the owners said that's 10amp. I saw some 10 to 15 amp converter things online so I guess that's what I'll end up using? I'd appreciate any tips on electric stuff as I'm still a bit lost.

For the greywater, I've been researching branched-chain systems. Depending on how big you want to build, they can handle a full house's grey water. I don't plan on making more than 5-10 gallons daily so I have a small system in mind. It's essentially just PVC piping that splits(branches) off into multiple drain sprouts. They're buried a little underground and covered with mulch in a small garden. I think I should be okay with this but like all things, we'll see.  

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18 hours ago, clashfn said:

- I plan on skirting the trailer with plywood, think that's enough?

Plywood will not last long in wet conditions. It will separate into the layers and fall apart. 

18 hours ago, clashfn said:

It will be going on a lawn so I want to make sure I don't sink.

It is only a guess but most things will sink into the ground with time. the larger the surface area of the pad for each wheel, the slower it will sink but over 2 or 3 years it will sink at least some. The type of ground it sits on is a major factor.

18 hours ago, clashfn said:

Are there trailers that are a better fit for winter living?

Absolutely! Four season is a factor but there is no industry standard for what that consists of. In general, the lower priced RVs have less insulation. Things like dual pane windows are very important. Another major issue will be the moisture inside of the RV as everything that you do, breathing, cooking, showering, and such will add to humidity just as in a house but an RV has far less volume of air to absorb the moisture. The result is that the windows and any cool surfaces will condense water and if not kept dry it will begin to deteriorate the materials your RV is made of. That could be your major problem.

6 hours ago, clashfn said:

About the electricity, I'll be hooked up to the garage and the owners said that's 10amp.

There is no way for us to know what you will actually have but city codes have set standards requiring at least 15a circuits since the early 1960's or before. But that is only part of the issue. A 120V home circuit breaker will have more than 1 outlet and that breaker, whether 10a or 15a or any other size can only supply a total of it rated current to all of the things using power from any outlet on the circuit. The only way that you will have the full rated amount to use is if your RV is the only thing connected. A typical electric heater if operated on high will require about 12a and if on low 6-8a. A microwave typically draws 6 to 10a, depending on the size. If the RV has LED lights they will not require much but if an older RV that has automotive type bulbs will require several amps. The blower on the furnace will need power too and those items use 12V from the battery or converter but the converter needs amps from the 120v supply. A typical household outlet can supply minimal power to an RV but in order to live in it all winter you will find it very difficult unless you get a proper, RV type, 120V-30A outlet installed for you.

Do you have a budget in mind for buying the RV and setting it up? There are many very experienced people on these forums who can help you figure out what all of this will cost and some idea of what you expect to spend would help us to help you.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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@Kirk W Thanks for all this!
 

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

Plywood will not last long in wet conditions. It will separate into the layers and fall apart. 

Makes total sense, I didn't think about that. I guess I'll have to go with vinyl.

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

Another major issue will be the moisture inside of the RV as everything that you do, breathing, cooking, showering, and such will add to humidity just as in a house but an RV has far less volume of air to absorb the moisture. 

I found these small dehumidifiers online that I'm hoping will help with this problem but I do cook a lot so we'll see if they're enough.

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

A typical household outlet can supply minimal power to an RV but in order to live in it all winter you will find it very difficult unless you get a proper, RV type, 120V-30A outlet installed for you.

I've lived in a lot of alternative housing situations over the years and think I can manage with quite minimal electricity. I'm actually at my nonprofit in Ethiopia right now and while heats not an issue, I've gotten pretty used to living with just an outlet or two. I've been looking at the catalytic heaters and am hoping that will get me by without the need for electric heat. I'm okay without a microwave and AC but the lights are a good thing for me to think about. The owners said we might be able to upgrade the garage's electricity in the future but for the start, I'll have to manage on 10amps.

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

Do you have a budget in mind for buying the RV and setting it up? There are many very experienced people on these forums who can help you figure out what all of this will cost and some idea of what you expect to spend would help us to help you.

This would be great. The top end of my budget is $6000 (maybe a little more if I find something out of my dreams). On top of that is the composting toilet (1k), the catalytic heater, gravel, skirting, security camera, prepurchase inspection, transport, insurance, greywater system, utility connections, furnishings, etc. I think all the extra things will add up quite fast so I'm trying to keep the trailer itself under $5,000 or $6,000. I wrote one of the inspectors from the website above and he mentioned that prices will drop drastically come September so that was a bit of good news. 

 

*I'll quickly add that I would HAPPILY spend much less than that. I'll be studying for my Master's in Social Work and will be stuck in unpaid internships for two years so I'm more than happy to sacrifice some comforts to save money. Also, for the space I have I need a trailer 18ft or under.  

Edited by clashfn
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I commend you for your approach.  Doing the planning you are doing is a great way to delve into this adventure with eyes open.  Dont discount the plywood idea, there are marine grade plywoods out there that can be either treated with copper green or some sort of sealer, esp since you are looking at 2 years life expectancy, which really isnt long at all and there are also pressure treated plywoods available which may need NO pre-install work at all.  Remember to similarly treat or use the same type of framing materials.  Sitting any wood product just above the wet will help too. 

Another option could be tarps, attached to the trailer and secure to the ground with tent stakes.  Harbor Freight has them pretty cheap and so may be a less expensive option even if changed once a year.

 

Marcel

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I suggest that you use the online magazine RV Trader to get some idea of what you can buy for the prices that you have in mind. You can plug in any zip code for the Portland area (97205) and that will find things in the Portland area, or use all areas to get a feel for prices in other locations that you may be willing to travel to.  Here is a link to a nation wide search for all RVs under $8000 advertised on RV Trader.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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11 hours ago, clashfn said:

if it only hits 30 degrees on occasional nights, do pipes freeze/burst?

No. We've been down to 20° nights. As long as it goes up enough to thaw during the day, you'll be fine.

Have you looked at fiberglass egg trailers like Scamp, Casita, Oliver, etc.? They tend to hold their value because they're so well built.

Linda Sand

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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@rpsinc Thank you. And I'll look into that as well - vinyl seems easier to mess up.

@Kirk W Will do! I've been looking on Craiglist mostly but good to know there's more options

@sandsys Phew, I think I should be fine in Portland then. I've looked at the Scamp before; there's a few youtube channels of people living full time in them. Unfortunetly, all the fiberglass trailers I've seen so far are well above my budget.

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It sounds like you have thought this through in addition to all the helpful suggestions.  I have a couple of additional ideas for you to consider.

I would not bother with shirting.  Even a relatively poorly insulated, three season RV should do well with Portland winters.  A small electric space heater should be all you need and will be less cost and be less nuisance than dealing with propane heating. 

I would however recommend propane for heating water.  Just turn it on 20 minutes before you need it and then turn it off.  A small 20# tank should last a couple of months for cooking and hot water.

I would follow up on the 10 amp service.  An upgrade to 15 or 20 amps would be a big help with running a space heater and you could even run an A/C unit for the few days a year that would be needed.  In addition to the outlet, you need to look at the distance between the outlet and the RV.  Depending on the distance you will need a 10 or 12 gauge extension cord and you will need to keep it off the ground and out of the way.

Your grey water system should work fairly well depending on the local soil conditions and drainage.  Keeping the waste water volume down will help.  I typically get by with about 1 gallon per shower and a total of about 3 gallons per day.  Keeping food particles down will help minimize odors.  A simple SS mesh screen for the kitchen sink helps a lot.  

  

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2 hours ago, JimK said:

I would not bother with shirting. 

I must disagree with this thinking. Some type of skirting will go a long way to help keep the floor warmer and to lower the need for additional heat. With limited electricity trying to use electric heat it is going to be important to minimize the need for heat. Something to prevent air movement under the trailer floor will be important. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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I guess my RV has some insulation under the flooring so it has never been very cold.  Regardless of the actual temperature, vinyl floor can be uncomfortable for bare or stocking feet.  I put down some indoor/outdoor carpeting from Home Depot and the floor feels much warmer.  There are a lot of choices that look decent and are very inexpensive.  I can easily pull the carpet out for cleaning and even use soap and water after prolonged use.  

I have no doubt that shirting would also help but I am not sure if the expense and effort would pay off.  It probably depends on the amount of floor insulation.  

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2 hours ago, JimK said:

I guess my RV has some insulation under the flooring so it has never been very cold. 

You probably have a covered underbelly on your RV. Most of the smaller, lower priced travel trailers do not, unless they are rated as 4 season. If you can see the underside of the floor, as you can with our present trailer, it will make a big difference.

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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Assuming there is sufficient headspace, would it make more sense to add some floor insulation instead?  I saw a benefit with just carpeting.  It would be easy to also add carpet padding.  Or for use in a fixed location, as the OP intends, perhaps it would be feasible to add some rigid insulation under the body.

Anyway, IMO, the Portland winters are pretty mild and there should be no issues.  Light frost at night and a few days with temps below freezing is about as cold as it gets there.  A small space heater with a low setting should be all it takes for a relatively small RV.  Winter comes late and Spring comes early.

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