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3 hours ago, RV_ said:

As I said above that is your choice. You left out the first sentence: "If someone does not want passengers talking while they drive then that is their vehicle their choice. "

The totally separate sentence was "I doubt anyone will suggest no speaking to passengers while driving. If they do I believe we all will consider the source" as you quoted above. Meaning telling others not to speak when they are driving their own cars. Looking at a phone screen instead of the road I think we all agree is unsafe at any age.

Safe travels!

Shields down, please, I was not disagreeing with you. I was simply sharing my experience relating to what you said. All my sentences were what therapists call "I" statements. Nowhere did I say anyone else should do what I do.

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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15 hours ago, RV_ said:

The use of phones while driving isn't the issue. I can send and receive texts make or take calls without taking my eyes off the road. I do not have to look at my screen, just click a button on my wheel to activate the mic and tell my Tesla what to do from changing the station to make a call or read the text that just came in. I can say send a text and it does that hands free and no screen reading needed. It is no more distracting than talking to you wife/passenger/friend/kiddos riding with you.

Although stock in my car most new cars offer all these options.

I too object to folks looking at their phones while driving and texting or watching videos. They tend to hang on my or your blind spot or just back from it when texting. When I click my directional it shows that left or right blind spot camera on my screen so I have avoided several issues with cars pacing mine.

And before the silly stuff starts yes like any new car you have to sit in the driveway and learn the controls even before automation. Like all new cars after a few days it all becomes second nature. I don't have to look at my wiper controls to turn them on, change wiper speeds, wipe once, as I have it set to auto. Same with my headlights. I think messing with all the buttons and knobs on vehicles without the sensors and automatic functions are way more distracting than hands free as you have to look at them

Until I got hands free fully automated I never texted or read texts while driving. I even use the mic to avoid typing texts with my thumbs when not driving.

If someone does not want passengers talking while they drive then that is their vehicle their choice. I doubt anyone will suggest no speaking to passengers while driving. If they do I believe we all will consider the source. 🖖

 

 

people have always been "distracted" while driving. it is not a cell phone problem. it is that there are just that many more drivers on the roads these days so it looks worse then ever. but it's not any worse by numbers then 50 years back.

all this computer trash to try and cover for the fools. how about the USA starts requiring real reasonable drivers training. it would take two-three years paid training before you could go solo.

most out there do not understand they are driving a 2000 pound missile. ( I had a jack*** hit me head-on he was doing 100 mph on a back road. he was just in a hurry) and for some reason feel the need to get someplace in a hurry. when it is easier to have left home 20-30 min earlier. saves fuel. and your nerves.

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Probably the biggest safety advantages full level 5 self-driving vehicles would have is that the specialized AI's don't get distracted and can make decisions many times faster than humans. Ideally, in a fully self-driving world, the AI's will be able to communicate their intentions to each other. At least when not distracted by planning to take over the world... ;)

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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12 hours ago, packnrat said:

people have always been "distracted" while driving. it is not a cell phone problem. it is that there are just that many more drivers on the roads these days so it looks worse then ever. but it's not any worse by numbers then 50 years back.

all this computer trash to try and cover for the fools. how about the USA starts requiring real reasonable drivers training. it would take two-three years paid training before you could go solo.

most out there do not understand they are driving a 2000 pound missile. ( I had a jack*** hit me head-on he was doing 100 mph on a back road. he was just in a hurry) and for some reason feel the need to get someplace in a hurry. when it is easier to have left home 20-30 min earlier. saves fuel. and your nerves.

Sorry paknrat I disagree. I believe reading your tiny print phone while driving is too distracting even for me and I can multitask, and have had no accidents while I was driving in the last 54 years since age 16. I believe using the phone for voice or texting without hands free is or should be illegal and prosecuted. So we will have to vote differently for those laws.

We enforce seat belt laws and they only protect the offender if in a crash. Why? Because they generally cost us money when they do get in a crash. In Germany when I was stationed for seven of my 27 years in the AF they have to take a year of driving school before they can get a license. They were some of the safest drivers in town and on the Autobahn at 120mph plus! Returning to San Antonio from there for my one year retirement tour, in 1996, I almost got hit several times by folks doing illegal turns lane changes etc. and that was before smart cell phones with screens! I re-acclimated but boy was that an eye opener. I miss being able to go 140 mph if needed when in a hurry legally. They also were not prudes and if you had to go you just pulled off the highway safely and peed with your back to traffic on your side of the road. Poop you just waited for some bushes. If we could wait for the next rest area or gas station we would, of course. No one was getting busted for indecency or what ever the prudes here call it. And no litter showing as they kept their private and public areas clean.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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2 hours ago, RV_ said:

Sorry paknrat I disagree. I believe reading your tiny print phone while driving is too distracting even for me and I can multitask, and have had no accidents while I was driving in the last 54 years since age 16. I believe using the phone for voice or texting without hands free is or should be illegal and prosecuted. So we will have to vote differently for those laws.

We enforce seat belt laws and they only protect the offender if in a crash. Why? Because they generally cost us money when they do get in a crash. In Germany when I was stationed for seven of my 27 years in the AF they have to take a year of driving school before they can get a license. They were some of the safest drivers in town and on the Autobahn at 120mph plus! Returning to San Antonio from there for my one year retirement tour, in 1996, I almost got hit several times by folks doing illegal turns lane changes etc. and that was before smart cell phones with screens! I re-acclimated but boy was that an eye opener. I miss being able to go 140 mph if needed when in a hurry legally. They also were not prudes and if you had to go you just pulled off the highway safely and peed with your back to traffic on your side of the road. Poop you just waited for some bushes. If we could wait for the next rest area or gas station we would, of course. No one was getting busted for indecency or what ever the prudes here call it. And no litter showing as they kept their private and public areas clean.

please you misunderstood me.

i was not saying it should be ok to do such things while driving. just i was saying the root problem is not the "item" but the actions, or lack there of the driver.

and yes i owe my life to the forced safety items (helmet, seat/shoulder belts, air bags, crumple zones). even as a little brat back in the 1960's i was belted in. (my moms first car the seat belts were a option) in the late 1970's i wore a helmet, and just ten years back a fool plowed into me, he was doing 100 mph.

so in no way was i saying the safety items should be tossed. but more that we as a nation need to put a heaver burden on those who do wrong. and all drivers need better education and training. and then some kind of reviews after the fact say every 10 years. even here in cal driving is a privilege.

i know where i can safety stop to do texting. and even even some phone calls (yes it goes through the trucks sound system). and we both have the same reading problem.

as to your last 4 lines here. it should be a low level infraction. not a felony as here in ca. just way too many people in this state. and way too many places to stop. i see it as a sanitary issue noting more.

but yes in other states it can be a long ways between places.

as to litter that is something the irks the () out of me. i have even seen a chp officer in a marked chp cruiser toss out a burning  butt, while driving down the freeway.

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13 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

Probably the biggest safety advantages full level 5 self-driving vehicles would have is that the specialized AI's don't get distracted and can make decisions many times faster than humans. Ideally, in a fully self-driving world, the AI's will be able to communicate their intentions to each other. At least when not distracted by planning to take over the world... ;)

and we all know computers never fail, or glitch.

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Just now, packnrat said:

and we all know computers never fail, or glitch.

And neither do humans of course... Then again, computers can have multiple redundancies built in for safety, while humans are stuck with "run what you brung".

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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27 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

And neither do humans of course... Then again, computers can have multiple redundancies built in for safety, while humans are stuck with "run what you brung".

very true, i believe some out there should not be allowed to feed themselves, even with a safety spoon.

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The underlying flaw for many drivers is their refusal to believe they aren't the best driver on the road. I've been driving for 50+ years without an accident. Good driving or luck? When you are driving YOU are responsible for not just your life but everyone else on the road. Just one distraction trying to "multi task"  can destroy not just your life but that of many others. I've picked body parts up off the road. I've had someone die in my arms while trapped behind the wheel. I could name a few other incidence. 

You owe it to everyone to ignore your phone. Forget the big information screen that begs for your attention. Your not superman. You may think so but you're not. 

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2 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Yes, and a refusal to

Also the refusal to believe that driving skills of everyone, no matter how skilled begin to decline with increasing age at some point. Reaction time for most people peaks at age 24 and then begins to slowly decline. Age-related changes in brain physiology are associated with reductions in the speed of information processing.  There is little doubt that even the best of us start to loose driving skills at some point in life. While the rate does vary, the decline is inevitable. 

Most Drivers are Better than Average

Edited by Kirk W
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Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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4 hours ago, Chalkie said:

Yes, and a refusal to learn from the mistakes of others simply because they haven't made that mistake - yet.

That's another advantage of dedicated AI driven vehicles. They not only can learn from their own mistakes, but the corrections can also be sent to all other similar systems.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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19 hours ago, packnrat said:

and we all know computers never fail, or glitch.

Or fossil fueled catch fire, tires fail, wheels fall off, my gas recalls on my old Chevy HHR included an ignition switch replacement that could lock up the power and cause a sudden loss of steering. If your fossil fueled car is recent it is computer controlled as well.

We agree on most of the previous post. When I told here about having texts and calls hands free without having to look at the screen of a phone to read it or for navigation, I had some folks make a big deal out of how unsafe I was being. 😱🤣 I say don't do anything that makes them/you uncomfortable. My wife is uncomfortable driving the Tesla and won't use her Forester "EyeSight" accident avoidance system to stop and go automatically in traffic, because it waits too long to brake at lights for her comfort. I use her's and my Tesla in stop and go traffic but the Subaru even gets me a bit nervous at first. Both of which, like cruise control on any car is disengaged instantly with a tap of the brakes making in manual.

 

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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One other thing. It is a foregone conclusion that EVs are taking over, like it or not. All keep talking about automated stuff failing and that is exactly what happened with the 737s that killed a lot of people but we still fly for the most part. However, we all know Boeing ignored, silenced and if I remember correctly fired people who tried to tell them the planes had that defect in the computer software. Plus EVs don't fall out of the sky.

My thinking, and none of you need agree because we all know, is that soon FSD will be perfected at least in Tesla cars, and I am getting older and can use it as my personal taxi taking me where I want to go without my needing to drive at all. The cars can be "summoned today and come from a parking space to where you are waiting for it at the entrance to a building or restaurant. Perfect for anyone who is unable to drive safely due to aging deficits/diseases/blindness/etc. As I expected and posted I wanted to get mine before the prices went up and they have, I had no idea the wait times would go to 5-6 months.  I have not paid for the FSD software upgrade yet as it can be added at any time. Call it insurance.

I can say that all of us EV drivers have owned ICE age cars and some like me still have one in addition to our EVs. So we have owned, have experience with, have driven, maintained, and added fuel/charging for both. We know both sides from personal experience.

I sure hope none of the naysayers here think I need or even want their approval. They don't need mine they have a good size clique here of their own. I pass along some things I find interesting.

Anyone notice how many times I have asked if they have ever driven an EV? Most say no. Or tell me about their relative having one which makes them expert vicariously. They say they won't because they aren't buying one. So they aren't interested in EVs right? Great!  I have no problem with that. But whenever I post about the stock and news since that is the stock I know best, they suddenly are interested and start with all the hearsay and sometimes made up negatives they can, but test their hype with a free test drive? Cmon guys you aren't fooling anyone, not even your buddies. Surely not triggering me. Not once have I asked anyone to buy one. In fact I hope the biggest Luddites here are the last ones driving ICE vehicles in the US.  That'll show us! Oh be sure and see my Post in General about flat towing EVs (four down.)

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

Find me an ev I can carry sideways on my HDT that has 200 plus miles range and I'm in. If not sticking with my Smartcar

Not there yet! But with your tow capability they are talking in development four down towing EVs that charge as they are towed. I wrote about this just new on another thread. But not here yet. You may remember years ago I was trying to buy or at least test drive the Smart car but none were in the south anywhere near where I lived and the Mercedes Dealership stuck his nose in the air when asked why they don't have them. They are here and like the Starlink for trucks and RVs almost here.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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RV when you stoop to calling someone a luddite because they have an opinion that you don't agree with you are simply showing your arrogance and self opinionated view of your own very small world. When will you ever accept that it maybe, just maybe, a fact that you aren't always right? I'm sure I'm not the only one sick of hearing about all your toys. I certain am.

Moderator. Delete if you feel me telling RV some home truth is inappropriate. I just get tired of all the lecturing. 

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Nuts! 

The number of cars with BC plates trying to tetris a stack of plastic fuel cans into their trunk at the Costco fuel stations here just south of the border is crazy. 

I'm all for saving a few cents on fuel but it's not worth asphyxiation on the way home.

2017 Jayco Designer 37rs "Fiona"

2007 Volvo 670 "Henry"

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32 minutes ago, rollinbrian said:

The number of cars with BC plates

How much lower is the US price? And what would the penalty be if they were caught crossing back over to Canada with the gasoline?

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

            images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqFswi_bvvojaMvanTWAI

 

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10 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

How much lower is the US price? And what would the penalty be if they were caught crossing back over to Canada with the gasoline?

This may be a little out of date, but I haven't found any changes.

"Cheap U.S. gas: What's allowed when it comes to bringing extra fuel over the border?"

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system

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13 hours ago, bruce t said:

RV when you stoop to calling someone a luddite because they have an opinion that you don't agree with you are simply showing your arrogance and self opinionated view of your own very small world.

 I just get tired of all the lecturing. 

Bruce, Luddite is not a bad thing if by choice. Here's the definition:

"luddite

1. One who fears technology (or new technology, as they seem pleased with how things currently are...why can't everything just be the same?)

2. A group led by Mr. Luddite durring the industrial revolution who beleived machines would cause workers wages to be decreased and ended up burning a number of factories in protest
A luddite generally claims things were "just fine" back in the day, and refuses to replace/update failing equipment/software/computers on the basis that they were just fine 10 years ago."
 

luddite

Source:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=luddite&utm_source=pocket_mylist

"I just get tired of all the lecturing."

Is someone forcing you to read my posts? Do you know how to block my posts so you never see them? I have blocked several folks here and unblocked them later so it is no big deal. All you have to do is stop reading my posts. Simple.

Sheesh! We are both big boys here with the ability to read or not read what we want to.

The only truth I heard was you read my posts then complain about reading them.

 

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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