StarLink

[Chad Heiser]

I’ve got a guest at my place who is using a new Starlink set up.  It is working great and is providing much faster speeds than what we get at the house.  It is really making me consider adding it to my other internet options.

[Kirk W]

It is interesting to me that to date I have heard nothing of anyone attempting to compete with Starlink? That makes me wonder if it is showing a profit yet? With SpaceX a privately held company it is difficult to know. To date there don't seem to be any efforts to compete with them for business. It has been fun to watch!

[Dutch_12078]

19 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

It is interesting to me that to date I have heard nothing of anyone attempting to compete with Starlink? That makes me wonder if it is showing a profit yet? With SpaceX a privately held company it is difficult to know. To date there don't seem to be any efforts to compete with them for business. It has been fun to watch!

I think it's way too early for Starlink to be profitable yet. As for other LEO competitors, Jeff Bezos' "Kuiper" and "One Web" are two that have a few hundred sats in the sky, but are nowhere near offering service yet. As I recall, both of them are planning on offering their services to resellers that will then handle retail consumer subscriptions. I understand there's also a Canadian company, Telsat?, that's also working on a LEO offering, but I know little about them. China, the EU, and possibly others are also working on LEO satellite Internet services.

A side note, I found it a bit ironic that Echostar will be using SpaceX to launch its newest geostationary satellite for its Hughes Internet service.

[Vladimir]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

It is interesting to me that to date I have heard nothing of anyone attempting to compete with Starlink? That makes me wonder if it is showing a profit yet? With SpaceX a privately held company it is difficult to know. To date there don't seem to be any efforts to compete with them for business. It has been fun to watch!

There are lots of companies and governments ready to compete with StarLink. 

The estimates are that is a few short years there maybe close to 200,000 of the satellites in low earth orbit.  And that is just the companies mentioned above, plus DOD and I am sure other governments.

The American Astronomical Union is working real hard to minimize the impact on earth based astronomy, but more important there is the issue of tracking all those satellites for earth launches.  Hitting one of those will definitely ruin your days if your on the rocket ship heading into space.  

My guess, is there is going to have to be some sort of international agreement on where these satellites can orbit so that launch windows can protected.

Musk might have won the race, by being first and then everybody else gets slowed up by international governmental regulation and we know how long those take!!!

 

[RV_]

I will be as brief as possible and provide links.

Congrats to the ULA, they finally launched the "Starliner" successfully into orbit today using the Russian RD-180 rocket engines Putin has said will never be sold to Boeing and Lockheed (The ULA) for US use again last March.

"Boeing’s previous efforts to fly its Starliner capsule to the space station, in 2019 and 2021, failed, putting Boeing years behind SpaceX in flying astronauts to the station."

Starliner enters orbit, headed to space station, in its first successful test

It is a test launch carrying supplies to the ISS. I really miss the landing of the rocket boosters for reuse. the ULA still lets their crash increasing costs per launch. You can watch it recorded here:

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/tech/science/space/2022/05/19/live-watch-ula-rocket-launch-boeing-starliner-space-station-nasa/9749419002/

Unless the companies ready to compete have their own rockets/rocket production/rocket engine production there won't be the competition it seems everyone here imagines. Bill Gates in the late 1990s tried with Teledesic and this 2009 article explains what happened:

https://www.cringely.com/2009/10/29/what-goes-around-teledesic-2-0/#:~:text=Teledesic died because it was too ambitious%2C too,a bit about space economics along the way.

Gates was funding Teledesic with a Saudi Prince and the cost of launching stopped them. The funny thing is that like what started Musk on the road to making his own engines the Russians blew the opportunity then and again with Musk.

What has stopped folks is the cost of launching with another space company because of the sheer number of satellites needed and the continuous replacement as they wear out or their orbit decays.

Many will look to the ULA or United Launch Alliance here in the US who are just Boeing and Lockheed. Guess who is going to impede the ULA? Russia, again. See the ULA uses Russian RD-180 rocket engines in their LEO Atlas launches used for resupply and personnel swaps for the ISS. When Obama sanctioned Russia Putin stopped shipments of those engines and our space program ground down to only the most important launches. I would imag9ine they aren't getting any more Russian Rocket engines today. The ULA has never competed in price and despite their being a defacto monopoly before Space X, they still waste taxpayer dollars by being paid more for the same launches - supposedly to maintain competition in US launch capability. Musk had to sue to compete. If you read about the development you'll see that Musk went to Russia to buy the same engines and someone told their Russian crony's not to do biz with Musk and they rudely gave Musk the "Bum's Rush," causing Musk to promise he would build his own and launch within five years and Boeing publicly scoffed saying even Boeing could not do that in five years and the ULA did not. When Musk did he had to sue because the ULA spent millions inside the beltway lobbying to keep him out of their $500 hammer" type of lucrative no oversight launch program for the US government. So now the competition here4 is limited for LEO launches and I am curious to see how the ULA plays this out. The ULA has, so far, nothing but vaporware for the Mars mission they claim to be developing to compete with Space X.

The press releases for today's launch say they are using both the Russian RD-180 engines which they say they have enough for missions until 2025, and the

Bottom line is that if you have to depend on others to develop your launch vehicles, satellites, rockets and rocket engines, greed and international politics can bring you down. Why do you think we had to use Russian launch vehicles for lifting our astronauts and supplies up. Of course now China and Russia will have their own space stations.

https://www.malaysiasun.com/news/272160899/china-says-construction-of-space-station-will-be-completed-in-2022#:~:text=China says construction of space station will be,station's additional two modules 3 The U.S.

It takes years to test and certify new launch vehicles for use with manned missions for NASA.

In 2014 ULA looked to be using Blue Origin Engines but perhaps never did:

"ULA has signed an agreement with Blue Origin for the development of a liquid-oxygen (LOX)/liquefied natural gas (LNG) booster engine with 550,000 pounds of thrust. This announcement followed months of debate in Washington over the supply vulnerability of the Russian-built RD-180 used on ULA’s Atlas 5 rocket."

https://spacenews.com/42249ula-blue-origin-and-the-be-4-engine/#:~:text=ULA has signed an agreement with Blue Origin,Russian-built RD-180 used on ULA’s Atlas 5 rocket.

If you are interested here is the diagram of the ULA launch vehicles as of now all using Russian engines from the ULA website:

 

 

 

https://www.ulalaunch.com/rockets/atlas-v

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by RV_

[Ray,IN]

Wow Derek!Thanks for the Cliff/Derek's notes of rocket technology. I didn't know how much I didn't know. 👍

[dewilso]

Starlink RV is available NOW ! Slower speeds & higher cost, but you can get it now. Wonder what the equipping difference is?

[mptjelgin]

16 minutes ago, dewilso said:

Starlink RV is available NOW ! Slower speeds & higher cost, but you can get it now. Wonder what the equipping difference is?

It looks like the same equipment, but you can get the equipment immediately (no waitlist) and use it in areas that are already "fully allocated".  

You pay for this with 1. Higher monthly rate, and 2. Downgraded service. 

From the company's support page:  Best Effort Service: Network resources are always de-prioritized for Starlink for RVs users compared to other Starlink services, resulting in degraded service and slower speeds in congested areas and during peak hours. Stated speeds and uninterrupted use of the service are not guaranteed. Service degradation will be most extreme in "Waitlist" areas on the Starlink Availability Map during peak hours. See Starlink Specification for expected performance here.   

[Second Chance]

12 hours ago, mptjelgin said:

It looks like the same equipment, but you can get the equipment immediately (no waitlist) and use it in areas that are already "fully allocated".  

You pay for this with 1. Higher monthly rate, and 2. Downgraded service. 

From the company's support page:  Best Effort Service: Network resources are always de-prioritized for Starlink for RVs users compared to other Starlink services, resulting in degraded service and slower speeds in congested areas and during peak hours. Stated speeds and uninterrupted use of the service are not guaranteed. Service degradation will be most extreme in "Waitlist" areas on the Starlink Availability Map during peak hours. See Starlink Specification for expected performance here.   

I read this on the Starlink web site yesterday... makes it no better than our current VZW unlimited (grandfathered) mobile hotspot in terms of service - and the hotspot is easier to set up.

Rob

[Dutch_12078]

1 minute ago, Second Chance said:

I read this on the Starlink web site yesterday... makes it no better than our current VZW unlimited (grandfathered) mobile hotspot in terms of service - and the hotspot is easier to set up.

Rob

Until you get to a location with limited or no VZW service...

[Chalkie]

I wonder what the slower speeds are. I find that as the cloud cover increases our speed goes down, in fact, to nothing when we are having heavy rain. Yet with this slow down we have full functionality on all our connected devices, even the TV doesn't even clock, until it goes to zero. I see this as a small trade off to having internet even in those places where a hotspot will not work. 

[Zulu]

2 hours ago, Second Chance said:

I read this on the Starlink web site yesterday... makes it no better than our current VZW unlimited (grandfathered) mobile hotspot in terms of service - and the hotspot is easier to set up.

Starlink RV now makes my portable HughesNet Gen 5 look good.

 

27 minutes ago, Chalkie said:

I wonder what the slower speeds are. I find that as the cloud cover increases our speed goes down, in fact, to nothing when we are having heavy rain. Yet with this slow down we have full functionality on all our connected devices, even the TV doesn't even clock, until it goes to zero.

 

The following is from MIRC's Starlink for RVs video . . .

SPEED

 

AVAILABILITY

Much of Midwest and South are "Waitlist" (aka decreased speed) areas.

 

[sheldons65]

On 5/19/2022 at 7:02 AM, Kirk W said:

It is interesting to me that to date I have heard nothing of anyone attempting to compete with Starlink? That makes me wonder if it is showing a profit yet? With SpaceX a privately held company it is difficult to know. To date there don't seem to be any efforts to compete with them for business. It has been fun to watch!

Kirk they have an advantage in they can also launch the satellites. Check out the payload. One rocket can carry a whole bunch of Starlink units. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=starlink+payload&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS989US989&sxsrf=ALiCzsYZ1kIrRaw0PqZrBPQ4vtsODT1Wsw:1653589020501&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2jK-R4_33AhXRLDQIHbZiCQoQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1#imgrc=SQoiqKKOfsW26M

"A single orbital launch of Starship could place up to four hundred Starlink satellites into orbit; for comparison, Falcon 9 flights in 2019 and 2020 have launched a maximum of 60 satellites each."

As of 18 May 2022, SpaceX has over 2,300 functioning Starlink satellites in orbit

Edited May 26, 2022 by sheldons65

[palmeris]

Got starlink finally at our stick and bricks was on wait list with deposit since February 2021. Got the priority locked in my home cell they say guaranteed 50 down and 10 up.

We are seeing 133 down and 23 up...amazing and so easy to set up.

110 bucks a month  and can add portability for additional 25 .

Www.Starlink.com

 

[Vladimir]

On 5/24/2022 at 6:22 AM, Second Chance said:

I read this on the Starlink web site yesterday... makes it no better than our current VZW unlimited (grandfathered) mobile hotspot in terms of service - and the hotspot is easier to set up.

Rob

As a amateur astronomer, not a fan of low orbit satellites. 

However, I do have StarLink.  

It is EASIER to set up than a VZW unlimited mobile hotspot. 

Verizon simply doesn't work at my cabin, most of the lakes I fish, nor my hunting spots.

Plus quite frankly, doing business with Verizon is like doing business with the mob, you always lose.   I wish Musk would buy a cellular company.

[Chalkie]

11 hours ago, Vladimir said:

   I wish Musk would buy a cellular company.

I've heard of stranger wishes, who would have thought he would buy Twitter?. If your cell phone provider allows phone calls over WIFI then you should be able to make calls from even remote locations using Starlink. Internet rumors have it that Tesla is designing a phone that will use Starlink as well. 

[Vladimir]

StarLink works great on wi-fi calling.

Verizon is a criminal enterprise in my opinion.  I would love to find a "honest" cell phone provider.

[Dutch_12078]

10 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

StarLink works great on wi-fi calling.

Verizon is a criminal enterprise in my opinion.  I would love to find a "honest" cell phone provider.

I haven't found anything in Verizon's Visible division plan that isn't exactly what they say it is.

[Ray,IN]

Off-topic;

 

I read an msn.com article yesterday about China working on inventing a way to destroy Starlink satellites to prevent them from being used by the USA military to vastly improve plane to plane, and to/from ground, speed transmissions.  With up to a thousand satellites when the network is complete, that might be an exercise in futility.

Sounds silly to me but what do I know about the subject?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Ray,IN

[Dutch_12078]

1 hour ago, Ray,IN said:

Off-topic;

 

I read an msn.com article yesterday about China working on inventing a way to destroy Starlink satellites to prevent them from being used by the USA military to vastly improve plane to plane, and to/from ground, speed transmissions.  With up to a thousand satellites when the network is complete, that might be an exercise in futility.

Sounds silly to me but what do I know about the subject?

SpaceX currently has approval for 12,000 Starlink satellites, with paperwork filed for an additional 30,000. China would be playing "wack-a-mole" for a long time. When the Starship goes into service, they'll be able to launch about 400 sats at a time.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dutch_12078
typo

[dewilso]

So, do you use the Starlink App or something else to determine your speed ? There is a big difference in the App & Ookla most of the time.

[Zulu]

7 hours ago, dewilso said:

So, do you use the Starlink App or something else to determine your speed ? There is a big difference in the App & Ookla most of the time.

A recent Starlink speed test using several testers (3-test average. All tests done with 10 minutes of each other). . .

19.4 Mbps (speedof.me)
66.9 Mbps (Ookla)
73.3 Mbps (Starlink app test)
28.0 Mbps (FCC tester)

Take your pick.

[Chalkie]

7 hours ago, Zulu said:

A recent Starlink speed test using several testers (3-test average. All tests done with 10 minutes of each other). . .

19.4 Mbps (speedof.me)
66.9 Mbps (Ookla)
73.3 Mbps (Starlink app test)
28.0 Mbps (FCC tester)

Take your pick.

That's kind of where I am. However, the numbers in my opinion don't really matter. All the devices I have connected (2 TVs, 2 Streaming sticks, 2 laptops, 2 phones, 2 Kindles, 1 Skylight Frame, 1 Echo Show, 1 Smart Switch and 1 Sleep Number Bed) all work as they should. One of the TVs is a 4K and we are able to stream 4K where it is available. So as long as everything works the speeds don't matter.

[Ray,IN]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:45 PM, Dutch_12078 said:

SpaceX currently has approval for 12,000 Starlink satellites, with paperwork filed for an additional 30,000. China would be playing "wack-a-mole" for a long time. When the Starship goes into service, they'll be able to launch about 400 sats at a time.

More on the issue. Chinese military urged to destroy Elon Musk's Starlink satellites (msn.com)

Apparently Starlink is being used by Ukraine in their war effort. That is making China nervous.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Ray,IN

[Dutch_12078]

1 hour ago, Ray,IN said:

More on the issue. Chinese military urged to destroy Elon Musk's Starlink satellites (msn.com)

Apparently Starlink is being used by Ukraine in their war effort. That is making China nervous.

Yes, Musk supplied Ukraine with a large number of Starlink terminals. As I said, with 42,000 Starlink satellites deployed, China would be playing wack-a-mole for a long time. And I suspect the small size and motion of the Starlink sats would make them pretty hard to hit as well. From the article, it appears China has dropped that idea anyway, and is looking at technical solutions to their perceived problem.