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Are electric RVs coming?


Kirk W

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Kirk, 

You opened up a rousing discussion. 

I'm looking for someone to do the solar powered home on wheels that can move as far as they want and when they want with few limits. Inclement weather would be one of the things I wouldn't care if the rig couldn't move because most of the ICE vehicles couldn't either, at least not in a "normal" fashion.  Once it's proven and the cost  comes to my pocket book range I will be all in. I cannot afford to be the pioneer, but I will support those who take that step. 

 

Rod

White 2000/2010Volvo VNL 770 with 7' Drom box with opposing doors,  JOST slider hitch. 600 HP Cummins Signature 18 Speed three pedal auto shift.

1999 Isuzu VehiCross retired to a sticks and bricks garage. Brought out of storage the summer of 2022

2022 Jeep Wrangler Sport S Two door hard top.

2007 Honda GL 1800

2013 Space Craft Mfg S420 Custom built Toyhauler

The Gold Volvo is still running and being emptied in July. 

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13 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

You referring to the grid. I was discussing off grid

I have an off-grid house.  

You don't do ANYTHING until the battery bank is fully recharged in my case on a sunny day about noon.......AND THEN you do the laundry, run the vacuum, play the stereo, check you emails, surf the internet, etc. etc.

Everything happens when the sun comes out.....we party like it is 1999.

According to a brief search you need a solar array of 16-30 Kwh to recharge a car.  My house runs on ONE POINT FIVE kwh.

My RICH neighbors all put in 5 Kwh array's for their homes.  That cost them 50,000 dollars for the complete setup.  So to charge a EV car.....my estimate is in the neighborhood of 150,000 dollars.  The panels are cheap, but the mounting hardware and wiring is very expensive.

You do need a work from home job....since you need to charge the car during the day.  Don't even ask the price for a 16 Kwh battery system.  My 1Kwh battery system was 10,000 dollars.

I love my solar off-grid system.  It allows me to live comfortably in a amazing environment.  Thanks to propane.  I should post a picture of the view from my back door.   

Can I do that on this forum??

Solar makes sense for the International Space Station,  RV's and off-grid homes.  

Not much else.

Vladimr Steblina

Retired Forester...exploring the public lands.

usbackroads.blogspot.com

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On 1/14/2022 at 6:24 PM, Dutch_12078 said:

Thanks Dutch! I read every one and did not have some of that info. I did see them talk about erroneous assumptions like folks will need to charge their cars from empty to full daily.

When building owners start getting high vacancy rates as EVs become more ubiquitous, they will install charging stations and/or outlets or get out of the rental biz. It is like when cable TV and then the Internet first started with broadband cable, building owners had to allow cable operators to install them and maintain them. Today given a choice between buying a house in an area with slow or no broadband and one with GB service from reasonably priced providers I am going with the fast area. However today I can get Starlink too it just costs a bit more.

Same with EVs for apartment dwellers. Home owners got it first then rental apartments. When I was full time there was nothing but dial up on the road. And in 1998 cellphones were too expensive for our full time budget. And coverage wasn't great. Now we have three lines! One unlimited data only and two voice with unlimited data for $61 bucks a month including all the taxes and fees!

The same has happened in EVs and I expect EV HDTs and Motorhomes will follow the EV TV RV rigs of today.

Thanks for the info.

However, some folks are like:

 

Edited by RV_

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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4 hours ago, GlennWest said:

But if you drained your batteries charging car what would home run off of? 

The dedicated batteries for the house - duh!   Why wouldn't you set up system for charging car and for charging batteries for the house at the same time if one is truly going off the grid, all solar?    

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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14 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

The dedicated batteries for the house - duh!   Why wouldn't you set up system for charging car and for charging batteries for the house at the same time if one is truly going off the grid, all solar?    

Read my post....you can't even come close to affording it.

Vladimr Steblina

Retired Forester...exploring the public lands.

usbackroads.blogspot.com

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9 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

The dedicated batteries for the house - duh!   Why wouldn't you set up system for charging car and for charging batteries for the house at the same time if one is truly going off the grid, all solar?    

Cost?  EV's are coming on strong but the power to charge these vehicles is going to take some time and a lot of money.  The ingredients to make things like the batteries is another hurdle to cross.  China currently has 85% of the rare earth minerals to make the batteries and the price of those is rising faster than inflation.  There is currently a shortage of lithium for instance and the price of batteries is going up quickly.  I just ordered some batteries from China and before I will get them the price for future orders has already increased.   Batteries are the most expensive part of EV's and to have enough batteries to recharge an EV at night would be very expensive.   Because there is a loss to transfer power from one battery to another battery the first battery will need to be larger than the power transfered. I am not saying EV's are not coming.  They are!  However, it going to take some time and a lot of money to support these.  I don't think most people are planning for that.  Vladimir listed some prices for his solar that are scary high.  My solar projects have not been anywhere near his figures because I DIY but it still isn't cheap.

Edited by Randyretired

Randy

2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift

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4 hours ago, GlennWest said:

I was directing that at Linda. A home running on Solar and battery.  Solar stops at night. No solar. Charge Ev and drain battery. What am i missing here. Now I know if enough solar and battery was installed but that out of the reach of most.

You missed my point. Bruce T said solar couldn't charge a car at night because there would be no sun. But we get our solar power during the day and store it in batteries to use at night. That SYSTEM could work for cars as well.

No, my RV did not keep enough power on hand to power a car but, perhaps, I could have installed a more powerful system that would do so. There are larger panels and more powerful batteries now than existed back in 2008 when we first installed solar on an RV.

But, my point was you don't charge anything by using sun at night. You fill your system during the day to use that power at night.

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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10 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

The dedicated batteries for the house - duh!   Why wouldn't you set up system for charging car and for charging batteries for the house at the same time if one is truly going off the grid, all solar?    

I believe most will charge at night. Using ev during the day. Not always but mostly. 

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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9 hours ago, Vladimir said:

Read my post....you can't even come close to affording it.

How do you know what someone can and can not afford to do?   Or what things will cost in the future?   Things change and we never quite know what is coming next.    

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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Actually your figures don't apply to everyone. See all my proposed system will use propane for high loads, dryer, range, hot water. So a 10k system should suffice. And that be around $10,000

2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1

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15 hours ago, GlennWest said:

You got happy posting, lol

 

Yep, lots of folks seeming to want to know what is what with our current crop of EV RV rigs and that there is a future for them to take over in the motorhome and HDT arenas as well.

Heck I remember when a PC with little power compared to today was ~$5k with only a 10MB (not GB) hard drive and RAM measured in KB and very expensive.

Now? My phone has 6GB of RAM and 128GB of SSD with an Octacore processor and the battery lasts two days ls (Motorola One 5G Ace)

I had hoped that the battery prices would drop more by now but the Pandemic has kept reductions from happening and the prices have gone up a bit. 

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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5 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

How do you know what someone can and can not afford to do?   Or what things will cost in the future?   Things change and we never quite know what is coming next.    

Easy......my guess was 150,000 for a off-grid solar setup to charge a EV daily.  I can't afford it.  But if you can, go for it.  As for the future....I have owned a off-grid house since 1997.  I am still waiting for the future solar panels and batteries to arrive.  I did upgrade my battery set in that time from liquid lead acid to AGM lead acid!!!

There is nothing worse than waiting for the "future" to arrive when you own a solar house.  It never happens.

Here is my post...

According to a brief search you need a solar array of 16-30 Kwh to recharge a car.  My house runs on ONE POINT FIVE kwh.

My RICH neighbors all put in 5 Kwh array's for their homes.  That cost them 50,000 dollars for the complete setup.  So to charge a EV car.....my estimate is in the neighborhood of 150,000 dollars.  The panels are cheap, but the mounting hardware and wiring is very expensive.

You do need a work from home job....since you need to charge the car during the day.  Don't even ask the price for a 16 Kwh battery system.  My 1Kwh battery system was 10,000 dollars.

I love my solar off-grid system.  It allows me to live comfortably in a amazing environment.  Thanks to propane.  I should post a picture of the view from my back door.   

Vladimr Steblina

Retired Forester...exploring the public lands.

usbackroads.blogspot.com

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21 hours ago, bruce t said:

RV I like your video. Shows a lot about you. "Agree with me because I'm the only one who is right." Right?

My last post on this thread. My head is getting sore from banging it against a brick wall.

 

Bruce sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you could tell me exactly what you think is wrong, with your source for your correction of my sources. You can't buy alternate facts, nor deny what can be bought today, and the costs.

Lots of folks are stuck in 1998 when the first Tesla came out for $125K and was made in the UK at the Lotus plant. Why? Because they only research with confirmation bias and don't want to know about advances made in EVs which have come a long way and down in price.

Which video? I provided links to several. If you mean the one with fingers in ears that was humor. It is the same as saying you can lead a horse to water . . . but you can't make him do a back flip. (just in case, that was humor too.)

The state of the EVTVs/EVHDTs/EV Motorhomes, what EVs are for sale today, at what price, and how long they will take to be delivered is pretty much instantly accessible online. And fact. They are available to you too.

However you keep insisting on tree-hugger being a motivator harping on some kind of Tree-hugger motivation to buy EVs despite me, a Tesla owner, telling you not no but hell no, that is not why I bought it.

That is my main disagreement with you. So let's make it impersonal; because there have been lots of surveys and the reason we bought our cars comes down to 100% for these reasons in the next excerpt, and yes I will provide the source.

Car and Driver published the results of a survey Mar 10th 2021.

Excerpt:

“Most people in the auto industry assume Tesla buyers are drawn to the brand's high-tech image or are fans of its mercurial CEO, Elon Musk. But a new survey from research firm Escalent suggests that's far from the real story.

Escalent's research, part of its EVForward program, was conducted among a national sample of 1003 respondents, including a survey, focus groups, and interviews with industry experts, between December 21, 2020, and February 19, 2021. Respondents were 100 Tesla owners, 100 owners of other electric vehicles, and 803 drivers who do not currently own EVs. They are a subset of the EVForward database of more than 10,000 new-vehicle buyers from 18 to 80, weighted by age, gender, and state of residence to match the demographics of U.S. new-vehicle buyers and by vehicle type to match current sales. The sample for this research came from an opt-in online panel.

The results showed that Tesla vehicles appeal to both EV owners and those who intend to buy an electric car within five years. Their reasons are similar to what automakers hope for when launching any new product, whatever it's powered by. EV owners and intenders saw Teslas as alluring for their styling, performance and acceleration, build quality, and the fact that they're new and different. Battery range was the sole attribute among the top five named that is specific to electric cars.

As for Musk, Tesla owners had lots to say about him. While some of it was negative—largely related to views he has expressed on Twitter—they felt his contributions to the firm and to their cars outweighed those negatives.”

Source - Car and Driver article link:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35797034/survey-tesla-buyers-not-musk-fans/

Safe travels!

 

 

Edited by RV_

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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6 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

How do you know what someone can and can not afford to do?   Or what things will cost in the future?   Things change and we never quite know what is coming next.    

So true Barb.

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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On 1/15/2022 at 1:24 PM, Vladimir said:

Easy......my guess was 150,000 for a off-grid solar setup to charge a EV daily.  I can't afford it.  But if you can, go for it.  As for the future....I have owned a off-grid house since 1997.  I am still waiting for the future solar panels and batteries to arrive.  I did upgrade my battery set in that time from liquid lead acid to AGM lead acid!!!

There is nothing worse than waiting for the "future" to arrive when you own a solar house.  It never happens.

Here is my post...

According to a brief search you need a solar array of 16-30 Kwh to recharge a car.  My house runs on ONE POINT FIVE kwh.

My RICH neighbors all put in 5 Kwh array's for their homes.  That cost them 50,000 dollars for the complete setup.  So to charge a EV car.....my estimate is in the neighborhood of 150,000 dollars.  The panels are cheap, but the mounting hardware and wiring is very expensive.

You do need a work from home job....since you need to charge the car during the day.  Don't even ask the price for a 16 Kwh battery system.  My 1Kwh battery system was 10,000 dollars.

I love my solar off-grid system.  It allows me to live comfortably in a amazing environment.  Thanks to propane.  I should post a picture of the view from my back door.   

On Edit, I put the wrong price estimat5e for a much smaller system in the post by mistake. I originally had 8.16 kW of panels and 2 Powerwalls instead of 19.20kW of panels and three Poweralls. I had the power ratings for the right quote that is now in this post.

 

Vlad,

Do you fill up your car or truck daily or wait for half or quarter tank or the warning light to fill up? What makes you think we need to charge our EV (soon to be EVs) daily on grid or with the system you'll see below, that with incentives sure does not cost $150k? If I charged daily I would use up the charge cycles much too fast. I just went to the Tesla energy website here: https://www.tesla.com/energy/design

I placed an Order to get the price Then deleted the order because we have not decided yet. After incentives the cost is about $47k for these specs including installation. Does not include taxes. read the specs.

8gXzMIdl.jpg

The specs for the Powerwalls are:

Total energy Capacity - 14 kWh each Powerwall  -  3ea = 43.2kW

Usable energy capacity – 13.5kWh each Powerwall  -  3ea = 40.5kWh

Real Power Rating - 7kW peak/5kW continuous /X3 = 21kW/15kW continuous (charge and discharge)

Powerwall specs are from here: https://solarmetric.com/learn/tesla-powerwall-review-costs-specs/

 

Those prices are as of /16/2022.

Vlad, the rest is my thinking out loud why the solar albeit pricey is foremost in my thinking. The security and inde-pendence? Priceless.

My comments:

We all know the batteries will not need to be charged from 0-100% daily, only what was used.

I currently (pun int.) charge my Tesla about once every three weeks from ~30% to 90% and if there were no pandemic that would be weekly excluding rare trips.

But since we are about to be a two EV household sometime in 2023 Lynda will likely charge the Tesla weekly and I would charge the Rivian every week as well.

We already have a grid 220v 50 amp 14-50 NEMA charging outlet in our garage that charges at 30 miles range per hour at home. I will add a second outlet.

The grid if we get solar will be a back up as the large system should run everything in the house including A/C in summer and have enough reserve to keep the batteries charged up on days we don't charge the cars. We can use the grid if there is a conflict between house and both cars needing to be charged all at once. Not very likely but covered.

I have no idea how fast or slow that system would charge my Model Y as there is tapering at the end to calculate. I'm just going to call Tesla.

For those interested and want to do charging scenarios this is a good link: https://www.autopilotreview.com/how-long-charge-a-tesla/#:~:text=As a simple example%2C in theory%2C if you,as the charge completes to protect the battery.

My decision: Pending.

I can continue charging on the grid but even buying a Natural Gas 25kW water cooled generator costs bout half installed (for the generator, electrical and gas line installation, auto-switch and switch box like I had installed at my last house) of the cost of that Tesla Solar panel Powerwall scenario above. I owned the Generac Air cooled 15kw backup generator and bought the propane tank because NG was only 12,500kW. Propane it delivered 15kW. It was too loud and stalled when trying to start the A/C some of the time. So we went with the much quieter Generac water cooled and it had an inline 4 cylinder vehicle engine in it for long lasting and continuous service as needed. I just looked it up today an for the same setup it would cost ~14,956 including $2k which may be more but I doubt less for the installation. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200646649_200646649?utm_source=bing_PPC&utm_medium=Dynamic Search Ads&utm_campaign=Generators DSA&utm_content=generators &cmpid=268312393&agid=1185274064041148&tgtid=dat-2325879409649481:loc-190&msclkid=d7ab714d48a1145265bd10ae101bda29

And it costs for gas and does not work if the gas goes out too. So I'm leaning towards the Tesla solar setup, but have to figure the savings, but with the weather going bonkers we may need independent power for a week or more. Hey you can't take it with you.

It only costs about $7 bucks to charge my model Y here on the grid but I do want a backup power system that can run the A/C. A solar setup like above could run everything if managed like when we were full-time RVing. RVrs have an advantage with solar as they can move out of harm's way and that is why we may also be getting a small but self contained rig again

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by RV_

RV/Derek
http://www.rvroadie.com Email on the bottom of my website page.
Retired AF 1971-1998


When you see a worthy man, endeavor to emulate him. When you see an unworthy man, look inside yourself. - Confucius

 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

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Go ahead and TRY to do it.  I guarantee you it will be a learning experience!!

My system is 25 years old.  I did try to get bids to upgrade it.

TWO electricians, including one that did 10,000 dollars of work for me, declined.  They wanted the entire system replaced at a cost of $50,000.  Panels are dirt cheap, it is the mounts, the piers, the copper wire runs, the generator, batteries that run up the cost. 

I finally found a electrician that was willing to LEARN on my system and it cost $2000 to hook up 12 panels, on the mounts and the piers ALREADY placed in the ground.  That cost was for the electrician to hook everything UP, plus wire, conduit, and that type of stuff.  He only charged me $95/ hour for labor.

I did try to get a TESLA PowerWall, but again, nope can't just buy the PowerWall you need to BUY EVERYTHING again. 

Start talking and getting REAL BIDS.  As I say it will be a learning experience.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my solar off-grid home.  BUT it is NOT cheap.  It is very, very, very expensive for the electrical system......and I STILL need propane for the fridge, hot water heater, stove, furnace, generator for cloudy days, and clothes dryer. 

Propane ain't cheap these days.

BTW... I have the second cheapest electricity in the United States at my city house at 2.7 cents a kilo-watt hour.  I have the MOST expensive electricity in the United States at my off-grid home just 25 miles away.

 

Edited by Vladimir

Vladimr Steblina

Retired Forester...exploring the public lands.

usbackroads.blogspot.com

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Comparing an off grid system with a grid tie system is apples to oranges.  For one the 3 power walls would likely not make it through the night you charge one EV. And your mileage is less than average.   The grid as a backup is essentially a storage battery to carry your power through the high power days.  I am not going to calculate the figures for this but I can say with certainty that Vladimir's numbers are closer than yours for solar power.  With the generator  you can make it work but it will run a lot of hours to cover all of your needs.  

Randy

2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift

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The questioned asked was are electric RVs coming.   Simple answer - YES.  We don't know when and what kinds of changes will occur - probably long after most of us have departed.  But change is coming, so sit back and watch the evolution and remember all of the changes that happened when you were young and you welcomed because you were still curious about the future.    

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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49 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

remember all of the changes that happened when you were young and you welcomed because you were still curious about the future.    

I remember when all phones were land lines and our phone number was only 5 digits and our cousins were on a party line. I guess that last one is now called ZOOM. :)

Linda

Blog: http://sandcastle.sandsys.org/

Former Rigs: Liesure Travel van, Winnebago View 24H, Winnebago Journey 34Y, Sportsmobile Sprinter conversion van

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8 hours ago, sandsys said:

our phone number was only 5 digits and our cousins were on a party line.

You must either be younger than I or lived in a city? The first phone number that I learned in rural Kansas in the late 40's was 2 on 5, meaning 2 rings on line 5. The phone hung on the wall and you lifted the receiver, turned the crank and a voice would say "number please?" And when I met my wife in 1961, her phone number was PY2-1045!

I don't know that it will be electric cars that replace what we use today, but I am confident that my grandchildren will one day believe what we are driving today to be primitive. Cars are changing, no matter what we believe to be impossible.

Edited by Kirk W
typo

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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51 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

I don't know that it will be electric cars that replace what we use today, but I am confident that my grandchildren will one day believe what we are driving today to be primitive. Cars are changing, no matter what we believe to be impossible.

Because few people these days do any significant maintenance on their own cars, most are unaware of the enormous changes that have occurred over the past ~50years.  Electric vehicles may herald a major technology evolution but it's not as if vehicle technology has stayed static.  Very few of today's drivers would be willing to put up with my 1954 Ford that had to have oil changes and its chassis lubed every couple of thousand miles and whose only creature comforts were an AM radio, a heater and crank-down windows.   Compared to it even the least expensive of today's vehicles is a technology marvel.

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
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