Ideal Water Softener

[gypsydan]

I have come to realize I need to acquire a water softener, but am not sure if there is any real differences between the various mfg's.  I can understand that the size of the RV woud make a difference as to the size of the water softener.

So, what make/model and size would you recommend for a 26' class c.  I spend most of my time boondocking, so It would need to be portable  for those times I would be in a park with hard water, and those times I am at my lot at Rovers Roost which has hard water. 

Thanks for Any suggestions or expereinces?

 

 

 

[hemsteadc]

I had an On-the- go years ago, but I have a suspicion it destroyed my metal shower drain.  

[agesilaus]

They are a lot of trouble and exchange healthy calcium and magnesium for unhealthy sodium in your water. You know people take Calcium pills and their doctors are always ordering them to cut back on sodium...right?

They can make the water too soft and soap will not wash off very easily.

Why do you think you need one?

[TXiceman]

The water softeners DO NOT add salt to the water.  The salt is used in an ion exchange with the resin and then rinsed down the drain with the minerals that have been deposited on the resin.  Water that has an excess of minerals is not good for you.

Ken

[agesilaus]

Quote

A typical water-softening system removes calcium and magnesium ions from hard water and replaces them with sodium ions.

Scientific American

When Ca and Mg are removed they MUST be replaced by another cation, which is sodiumin this case.It is possible to exchange a cation for hydrogen using a water DEIONIZER but that is technology beyond your household system and requires very dangerous chemicals, Sulfuric Acid and Sodium Hydroxide to regenerate the resin. Far too dangerous for your untrained homeowner.

[durangodon]

11 hours ago, TXiceman said:

Water that has an excess of minerals is not good for you.

 

Not doubting your word because I really don't know.  However, I've always heard that hard water (mostly because of calcium, lime, and magnesium) is healthy and good for you.  Where did you learn otherwise?

Thanks.

[Kirk W]

Water Softeners and High Blood Pressure

Quote

In general, typically softened water contains about 12.5mg of sodium per 8oz glass. If this water were graded according to the same scale the Food and Drug Administration uses for foods, it would be considered “very low sodium.”

If you are concerned about both hard water and sodium intake, a reverse osmosis system may be your best answer.  We have used a quality water filter for all water into our RV since 2000 but not any additional water conditioning. 

[DJohns]

The amount of sodium added is related to the grains of hardness. 10 grain water is fairly common although that varies from where in the country you are. If you soften one quart of  10 grain water you add 73 milligrams of sodium or about the amount of sodium in 2 slices of bread. Ask a doctor how many gallons of water you need to drink per day to get your daily amount of calcium. Now back to drinking water, how many drink bottled water. At least half is RO water with no minerals.

[agesilaus]

OK a quick water 101 lecture

I spent 30 years running industrial demineralizers as part of my job as a plant chemist. These were four 80 cu/ft tanks of resin and produced water that makes your so called distilled water at the supermarket look like ditch water. They also had 2 50 cu/ft carbon filters. The feed water to these units came from another plant that produced water quality about what you would get at the supermarket about 5-10 parts per millon.

The water you get in bottles runs around 5-10 part per million of dissolved minerals, mostly sodium chloride. The water out of these units was 1000 times purer, a few parts per billion. And we took that water and made part per trillion water in the lab for use there.

Now water produced by a municipal water plant runs around 100 mg/L or ppm of hardness which is a measure mainly of Calcium and Magnesium. That level of hardness protects city and home water piping by depositing a thin layer of calcium/magnesium carbonates on the inside of the piping. Much higher levels of hardness will produce thick deposits called scale and and can eventually plug the pipes. In your water heater this 'scale' can build up and destroy the heater eventually thus we use sacrificial electrodes and flush the tanks out the combat this. This happens because calcium carbonate unlike just about every other chemical salt gets less soluble as it gets hotter.

You on the other hand benefit from high hardness since calcium and magnesium are required by your body. Most women end up taking calcium/magnesium tablets to protect their bones and those are big pills.

Too soft water, hardness too low corrodes iron piping. So water plants carefuly control the hardness leval at just the right level. They have a chemical index they use called the Langlier Index to measure this.

Sodium on the other hand is controversial. Back in the 1920's or 30's IIRC some doctor noticed that people exotic rice diet had low incidence of atherosclerosis and since rice has a low sodium content he decided that this was because of their low sodium diet. Ignoring the many other factors involved in a rice diet. And so doctors ever since then have determined to drive down the sodium content of their patients diets despite there being no real evidence of low sodium being beneficial.

People in general unconsciously try to control their sodium intake to about 3 grams a day IIRCfrom a paper that I read. Doctors stick with what they are taught in med school based on a 1920 poorly designed study.

[DJohns]

So what you are saying is most water comes through a water treatment plant that gets the hardness to about 6 grains. WRONG.  There are many parts of the US that have 15 to 25 grains coming into the house.  Minnesota, Arizona, Texas, even in Nebraska where I live. There are many many private wells also that provide water and people aren't sick from high sodium. Peoples diets of boxed food contain way more sodium than softened water.

 

[D&J]

19 hours ago, gypsydan said:

I have come to realize I need to acquire a water softener, but am not sure if there is any real differences between the various mfg's.  I can understand that the size of the RV woud make a difference as to the size of the water softener.

So, what make/model and size would you recommend for a 26' class c.  I spend most of my time boondocking, so It would need to be portable  for those times I would be in a park with hard water, and those times I am at my lot at Rovers Roost which has hard water. 

Thanks for Any suggestions or expereinces?

 

 

 

Back to our question we use the On-the Go smaller unit and it works great with a recharge every week when we are in areas of hard water like Yuma AZ where we are at now. We also have a RO system for cooking and drinking water. The softener makes a big difference in the water spots and longevity of all appliances and faucets. The biggest problem with boondocking is having to be hooked up to water to recycle it. I would highly recommend one.

Denny

[agesilaus]

Who the heck uses 'grains' anymore, that's right out of the 1940's.  PPM is an old measure for that matter, modern use is mg/L.

I suppose there are water plants that do not operate a water treatment system.   May only filter the water. You get what you pay for. I'm not even sure if the USEPA permits that they do require extensive testing for 126 priority pollutants plus another 20 or so items on municipal drinking water plants that provide water to a certain population of people. Elko NV was said to have notoriously bad drinking water BTW, they may have fixed that.

[Chalkie]

5 hours ago, agesilaus said:

And so doctors ever since then have determined to drive down the sodium content of their patients diets despite there being no real evidence of low sodium being beneficial.

The CDC disagrees with this statement. 

Quote

High sodium consumption can raise blood pressure, and high blood pressure is a major risk factor for heart disease and stroke.

https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/sodium.htm

[DJohns]

7 hours ago, agesilaus said:

Who the heck uses 'grains' anymore, that's right out of the 1940's.  PPM is an old measure for that matter, modern use is mg/L.

I suppose there are water plants that do not operate a water treatment system.   May only filter the water. You get what you pay for. I'm not even sure if the USEPA permits that they do require extensive testing for 126 priority pollutants plus another 20 or so items on municipal drinking water plants that provide water to a certain population of people. Elko NV was said to have notoriously bad drinking water BTW, they may have fixed that.

I don't know, maybe most water softeners are rated by grain capacity so I guess it still applies. I have NEVER seen a water softener rated in ppm's so I guess we are still in the 40's

[sandsys]

What I know is that when I went on a low calorie, low fat, low sodium diet they had to reduce my blood pressure medication because I was having dizzy spells caused by my blood pressure being too low. I was loosing about 1-2 pounds a week for eight weeks but I think it was the low sodium that caused the blood pressure change. I am back to eating high sodium and my blood pressure is back to being higher than normal although not as bad as it was previously. 

I suspect the salt from water softening is like the L-tryptophan from eating turkey. You'd have to eat more turkeys than your stomach can hold to get the effect. The sleepiness from eating Thanksgiving dinner is from all the other food you ate.

Linda

[D&J]

11 hours ago, sandsys said:

What I know is that when I went on a low calorie, low fat, low sodium diet they had to reduce my blood pressure medication because I was having dizzy spells caused by my blood pressure being too low. I was loosing about 1-2 pounds a week for eight weeks but I think it was the low sodium that caused the blood pressure change. I am back to eating high sodium and my blood pressure is back to being higher than normal although not as bad as it was previously. 

I suspect the salt from water softening is like the L-tryptophan from eating turkey. You'd have to eat more turkeys than your stomach can hold to get the effect. The sleepiness from eating Thanksgiving dinner is from all the other food you ate.

Linda

We have a water softener at our homebase and one in our trailer and have for years and when I get my blood work done my sodium level is either the low end of normal or below normal. 

Denny 

[TXiceman]

Here is some reading on water softeners.  Should put some of the concerns and myths to rest.

https://www.water-rightgroup.com/resources/myths-about-water-softeners-8-things-people-get-wrong/

 

Ken

[agesilaus]

Quote

It’s true that you you’ll need water softener salts, but you shouldn’t taste salt in your water. Water softeners use an ion exchange process to remove minerals like calcium and magnesium, which make the water hard.

An obvious industry pack of lies. 'No we don't put salt into your water, well yes we do but you can't taste it'...geez.

[hemsteadc]

From the same article: "So it isn’t salt (NaCl) that gets added to your water, it’s sodium (Na)."

[DJohns]

2 hours ago, agesilaus said:

An obvious industry pack of lies. 'No we don't put salt into your water, well yes we do but you can't taste it'...geez.

So don't get a water softener it is a free country. A LOT of folks have softened water. And by the way with  softened water you use only 1/4 of normal amount of soap which is good for the environment or is that more lies.  Several people have told you the same thing. I'm done.

[agesilaus]

I spent 30+ years in the environmental chemistry lab and water softerner salesmen are regarded as being 10 steps lower than used car salesmen or even politicians. They prey of the ignorant. But I would not stand in the way of anyone to throw his money down a rat hole, just as long as I'm not contributing, as much as they want to. Benjamin Franklin said it all.

Edited December 1, 2021 by agesilaus

[aztex]

I just bought an On The Go brand. Gets high marks across the board.

While water softeners are pretty basic the seals and canister construction vary from brand to brand. I almost bought an RV Water Filter Store brands but reviews showed dozens of heavily leaking units.

I've been in places where I don't even need to filter the water and here outside of Yuma where the water is so hard there are mineral deposits left by spilling a glass of water!

I got one as if the water which is filtered whole rig by sediment and charcoal and the Berkey for drinking makes me gag there is a problem with the water!

YMMV

[GlennWest]

I have a whole RV filter system. Yes,they get nasty.