My NEW solar/inverter/battery setup

[Rover]

18 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

Yes you can run your dryer with a dual inverter system.  I’m assuming for the sake of this conversation your dryer is 240 volt (like mine).  The inverters have to be programmed properly on installation to get 240 volt from them.  Once the inverters are programmed this way, they will have the capability to produce 120/240 volt power regardless of the power source you are plugged into and also when you have no power source (inverting from the batteries).  (This is the way I will program my inverters.). When your inverters are programmed like this and your rig is plugged into a 50 amp (120/240 volt) power pedestal this power simple passes through the inverters and powers everything in the RV (like normal).  When your rig is plugged into a 30 amp, 20 amp or 15 amp power source, this power is passed through the inverter on line one (L1) and the inverter on line 2 (L2) will only invert from the batteries.  By doing this, the system is always capable of producing 240 volt power regardless of or independant of the power source.

Assuming you will not be programming your own inverters and assuming you have no desire to change the programming of your inverters on your own, the 120/240 capabilities will be there all the time.  There is a way to change this programming “on the fly” so that when you are plugged into something less than a 50 amp power pedestal both inverters can pass through shore power, but it takes a special interface device plugged into an inverter, a laptop, software and some knowledge of how to operate that software.  This is not something most end users want to do, so the functionality I described above is what you end up with.  There is no issue with this as the inverter that sees shore power (L1) will constantly charge the batteries while the inverter that does not see shore power (L2) draws from the batteries.

Thanks Chad for the thorough explanation on the programming/workings of the two inverters. We did actually find that our dryer is not actually 240 volt so is not that much of a concern. But we still have to know what we can run at the same time (ie: AC, appliances, etc) when we are off shore power as we do a lot of boondocking. 

Vicki

 

[Chad Heiser]

12 hours ago, lappir said:

Thanks again Chad for the information and how you present it. At least for me it seems very understandable in a real life situation. I now more understand the reason for your current build I believe. 

The day I know I will need to start boondocking (or will have the ability). I hope to schedule an appointment with you to provide an estimate for a system that will allow me live off grid. 

 

Rod

I’m happy to help when you are ready.

[Chad Heiser]

2 hours ago, Rover said:

Thanks Chad for the thorough explanation on the programming/workings of the two inverters. We did actually find that our dryer is not actually 240 volt so is not that much of a concern. But we still have to know what we can run at the same time (ie: AC, appliances, etc) when we are off shore power as we do a lot of boondocking. 

Vicki

 

If you don’t have any 240 volt appliances, you do not have to program the inverters to provide 240 volt.  They can be programmed to provide two independent legs of 120 volt.  This way when you are plugged into less than 50 amp power, the power will pass through both inverters (L1 and L2).  It is like going through a 30 to 50 amp dog bone when plugging into a 30 amp pedestal, L1 and L2 get combined.

Something else to be aware of, the 3K Multiplus inverters are 3KVA rated.  I can go into a technical explanation of this, but basically VA is sometimes the same as Watts, but not always.  The 3KVA Multiplus is rated for 2400 Watts continuous power and up to 3000 VA (or Watts with a power factor rating) depending on the type of load it is powering.  

In other words you can run 2400 Watts of load on each inverter (4800 Watts total) with no issues and maybe up to 3000 Watts /VA.  A typical RV air conditioner runs at about 1500 watts or so for reference.

[Chad Heiser]

I saw a pallet sitting in front of my shop when I got home this evening.  It looks like Santa came early this year for me.  I must have been a good boy. 😎  I will take some pictures in the day light, but the batteries are here.  

The Victron components will be here on Tuesday.  They are waiting for me at the distributor, but I won’t get down to get them until then.  It looks like I have some work ahead of me on my rig (and some other rigs) over the next few weeks.  I am failing retirement. 😉

Edited November 13, 2021 by Chad Heiser

[dblr]

53 minutes ago, Chad Heiser said:

I saw a pallet sitting in front of my shop when I got home this evening.  It looks like Santa came early this year for me.  I must have been a good boy. 😎  I will take some pictures in the day light, but the batteries are here.  

The Victron components will be here on Tuesday.  They are waiting for me at the distributor, but I won’t get down to get them until then.  It looks like I have some work ahead of me on my rig (and some other rigs) over the next few weeks.  I am failing retirement. 😉

Wish you were on the east coast, really would like to have solar eventually for when we head west to camp more seeing the wife has finally retired. 

[Tahoe Shark]

6 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

I saw a pallet sitting in front of my shop when I got home this evening.  It looks like Santa came early this year for me.  I must have been a good boy. 😎  I will take some pictures in the day light, but the batteries are here.  

The Victron components will be here on Tuesday.  They are waiting for me at the distributor, but I won’t get down to get them until then.  It looks like I have some work ahead of me on my rig (and some other rigs) over the next few weeks.  I am failing retirement. 😉

I have been consulting with Santa and have scrutinized the “good boy” list for my name. I did not find either name there.😀 We do have another month to make some changes however. Another day over at the trailer, keep your phone charged.😇

[hemsteadc]

On 11/9/2021 at 6:17 AM, Rover said:

aready have 10 - 100 amp Battle Born lithium batteries.

Wow.. excellent.  I was going to comment that as a high-energy user you're going to need big battery power, but it looks like that's covered. 

[Chad Heiser]

Here's the pallet of batteries.  Tuesday the Victron parts come, then the work can begin.

[lappir]

So how many batteries did you get? You are using 4 if I remember correctly, but it looks like a lot more than that. I noticed the "Do not double Stack sticker." under the top few. 

 

Rod

[Chad Heiser]

8 hours ago, lappir said:

So how many batteries did you get? You are using 4 if I remember correctly, but it looks like a lot more than that. I noticed the "Do not double Stack sticker." under the top few. 

 

Rod

The four big boxes are for my rig.  The rest are for other projects.  The big boxes are 8D batteries and the rest are the standard 100 AH batteries.

[Chad Heiser]

So here is the pile of parts going in my DRV

 

[lappir]

Thanks for the updates Chad. I haven't looked at your links yet. Is there additional info there? Might wait till the install is complete and spend a day looking at everything.  I'm on day 9 of 12 working days in a row, so try to only spend a little time here. 

 

Rod

[Chad Heiser]

20 hours ago, lappir said:

Thanks for the updates Chad. I haven't looked at your links yet. Is there additional info there? Might wait till the install is complete and spend a day looking at everything.  I'm on day 9 of 12 working days in a row, so try to only spend a little time here. 

 

Rod

The link has some additional pictures besides the ones I am posting here.

[Chad Heiser]

Here is a little bit better look at the parts.  The only thing missing is the new GX Touch 70 display.  That won't be here until next month some time.  It is a new part and isn't readily available yet.  It is the same as the GX Touch 50 display, but bigger (7 inch vs. 5 inch).

I started tearing out all the old components today.  This is what I started with:

This is what it looks like now:

The compartment the old Magnum inverter was sitting on is off to the right from this picture.  It now looks like this:

All the Magnum components are gone from the basement area and I removed the OEM battery compartment on the passenger side of the trailer.  I previously used that compartment as a DC electrical connection center because my large batteries wouldn't fit there.  Now all the DC connections are going to go to Lynx Distributors and I need that space for other components, so it came out.  All the batteries have been removed as well.  They were heavy.  I knew that going in, but I forgot how heavy they really were until it was time to lift them out of the trailer.  I have some DC connections hanging out the door of the old battery compartment going to a battery sitting on the ground for now.  This way I still have DC power in the trailer for lights while I am working.

Tomorrow I plan to build some walls to mount the components to and start mounting things up.  If all goes well, I will get everything mounted (or at least most things) and I can start wiring it all up on Friday.

[Chad Heiser]

I got a decent amount of work done today.  Both Quattro inverters, the MPPT solar controller and the small Phoenix inverter are all mounted.  I hoped to get a little bit more mounted, but there was some extra work that went into making the Quattros fit and that took extra time.

I started by building a new wall in the basement.  This wall separates the old OEM battery compartment area from the rest of the basement.  The wall goes from floor to ceiling, unlike the old compartment enclosure that only went up about half way or so.  The Quattros are mounted on the basement side of the wall and the Phoenix inverter and MPPT solar controller are mounted on the opposite side of the wall and can be accessed from the old battery compartment door.  The wall is 1 1/8” thick because it is supporting a lot of weight (the Quattros are heavy).  When I initially measured the width of the space where the wall was installed, it was just wide enough to fit the two Quattros side by side.  There was however a light on the side wall that needed to be relocated.  I set the new wall in place and then set the inverters on the floor just to be sure everything would fit.  It did, but as I was looking everything over, I realized when the compartment door closed the gas strut and upper strut mount were going to protrude into the compartment past the door opening and hit the inverter (when they were mounted).  This was a bit of a bummer.  I really wanted to mount the inverters there.  

I started thinking about other mounting locations, but kept coming back to this one.  I needed to move the inverters about an inch to the left (inboard toward the generator compartment) to avoid the door strut, but the generator compartment wall was in the way.  Only the top half of the wall needed to move and the generator doesn’t go all the way up to the top of the compartment so there wasn’t anything preventing the movement inside the compartment.  The generator compartment shroud is just aluminum covered in carpet.  Since it only needed to move a small amount and aluminum is pretty soft, I decided to pull out my sledgehammer and see if I could coax the wall over a bit.  The sledgehammer was a success and I was able to mount the inverters with enough clearance for the compartment door to close.

[Chad Heiser]

Here’s the Quattros mounted:

Here’s the Phoenix inverter on the other side of the wall:

and the solar controller above it

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

If you moved the bottom of the generator shroud, make sure you reseal it.  Exhaust fumes trapping in the basement isn't good.

[Chad Heiser]

2 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

If you moved the bottom of the generator shroud, make sure you reseal it.  Exhaust fumes trapping in the basement isn't good.

I just bent the top over an inch.  The bottom didn't move.  I do have a few holes to cover up from some old penetrations with the old system though.

[Chad Heiser]

I got some more work done today.  The lynx distributors are mounted and everything is wired up to them.  Both Quattros, the smaller Phoenix inverter, the solar controller and the trailer 12 volt loads are all connected.  I was able to connect everything with very short wire runs because of how I mounted everything.  The distributors are on the wall below the Quattros and are mounted upside down.  This allows the wires to come out of the distributors and go directly up to the Quattros.  Victron actually sells the Lynx Distributors with a replacement sticker for the cover to allow the writing on the distributor to be "right side up" when it is mounted upside down. 

The 4/0 welding cable wire runs are only 17" from the distributors to the Quattros.  I used 2 AWG welding cable to connect the Phoenix inverter, solar controller and the existing bus bars where the trailer 12 volt loads are located.  I drilled All of these holes through the wall for each 2 AWG wire run so the wires come out of the lynx, go through the wall and directly to their component.  Beause of this, all of these wire runs were even shorter than the runs to the Quattros.  I am very pleased with how things are progressing.  

Here are the Lynx Distributors and all the wire runs coming out of them.  I have one open space left in the Lynx for future expansion.

Here is the other side of the wall and the wires going to the components there.

There are a few more pictures on my google drive if you follow the link in my signature.

 

On edit:  In the first picture, you can see the "bend" at the top of the generator shroud (to the left of the inverters) that I made to slide the inverters over so the compartment door could close.  You can also see the slight gap on the right side of the inverters created by moving the inverters to the left slightly.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Chad Heiser
Added a comment at the end

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

What are you powering with the small inverter?  Fridge or something else?

 

[Chad Heiser]

10 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

What are you powering with the small inverter?  Fridge or something else?

 

The Phoenix inverter is a 1.2 KVA (1K Watt Continuous) pure sine wave inverter dedicated to my refrigerator and a single outlet in the bedroom (to keep my clock powered).  I will use it while traveling rather than running the large inverters just to keep the residential refrigerator running.  I have individual transfer switches in line with the fridge and the bedroom outlet as well.  These transfer switches allow the use of either the small inverter or large inverters automatically.  I had the same setup with the Magnum system and really liked it.  It also lets me use the small inverter for the fridge when we are boondocking and don’t need to power anything else (to conserve energy).  This is less of a concern for me than the traveling option.  I don’t like having all my electronics powered while the trailer is bouncing down the road (just a little quirk of mine).

[lappir]

9 hours ago, Chad Heiser said:

The Phoenix inverter is a 1.2 KVA (1K Watt Continuous) pure sine wave inverter dedicated to my refrigerator and a single outlet in the bedroom (to keep my clock powered).  I will use it while traveling rather than running the large inverters just to keep the residential refrigerator running.  I have individual transfer switches in line with the fridge and the bedroom outlet as well.  These transfer switches allow the use of either the small inverter or large inverters automatically.  I had the same setup with the Magnum system and really liked it.  It also lets me use the small inverter for the fridge when we are boondocking and don’t need to power anything else (to conserve energy).  This is less of a concern for me than the traveling option.  I don’t like having all my electronics powered while the trailer is bouncing down the road (just a little quirk of mine).

Great thought and one I had when told them what I wanted when building my trailer. Instead they used the big inverter to power the whole trailer and it never worked to keep the fridge running for 48 hours as I asked. It caused other issues too, but I didn't realize until much later. 

In speaking of electronics, if they are turned off isn't that sufficient or do they need to have absolutely no power provided to them? 

 

Rod

[Chad Heiser]

11 hours ago, lappir said:

In speaking of electronics, if they are turned off isn't that sufficient or do they need to have absolutely no power provided to them? 

 

Rod

Things like TV's and satellite boxes, etc. never actually power down when you turn them off.  The only way to truly power them off is to unplug them or remove 120 volt power from the system.  Most electronics are fine while running down the road.  Anything with a hard drive, though, can be problematic if they are powered while getting bounced around.  It is more of my issue than the electronics' issue, but it makes me feel better not to keep them powered while driving.

[Chad Heiser]

I spent the day getting the batteries mounted.  I planned to mount them behind the generator shroud.  My original system had two batteries mounted on the floor here, covered by a battery box.  This time I was going to put two on the floor and the other two above them, upside down, so all the terminals would be in one location close together.  I built a rack and test fit the batteries, but it ended up being too tall.  I have a TV in the basement that folds up against the ceiling when stowed.  The upper batteries interfered with the television when it was stowed.  

I reconfigured the rack by lowering the upper batteries closer to the bottom batteries so they wouldn’t interfere with the TV.  This didn’t allow enough clearance to mount the upper batteries upside down though.  The upper battery terminals were too close to the lower battery terminals and I didn’t want to take a chance of having them come in contact with one another when the cables were connected.  So much for having all the connections in the same spot.  

After a few tweaks to the rack and battery positioning, I got everything to fit.  There was a lot of trial and error here until I got it just right.  I ran all the battery cables to the Lynx Power In and mounted the power in at the end of the battery rack.  I am happy with how it all came out, even if I couldn’t make my original plan work.  I am going to build a shelf on top of the batteries for long items like my flag pole, broom, etc.  The shelf will also protect against anything coming in contact with the battery terminals on the upper batteries.  I don’t want to completely hide the batteries in a box like I did with my old system.  This system is intended to show all the components to those interested in seeing them as well as provide lots of power to my rig.

Here are a couple of pictures of the final product.  I still have to put some rails in place to hold the upper batteries to the shelf.  These will be incorporated when I build the storage shelf on top of the rack.

Here is the Lynx Power In box.

All I have to do is add the battery disconnect switch and Smart Shunt (seen sitting on the floor in the lower right of the above picture).  These will be in line between the Lynx Power In and the Lynx Distributors.  Once those last bits are done, the entire 12 volt side of the system will be complete.  Then it will be time to move on to the 120/240 volt side of the system.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Chad Heiser

[lappir]

So would turning the batteries end to end not create space for the terminals not to touch and maybe allow you to do a "buss bar"? Can't tell from the photos today. Hope to see the rig some day, but California is  a long way away. I think I read you were "retired" sort of, and attending the ECR too. I'm in Cape Girardeau, MO and if you are coming through within a  hundred miles or so I'd ride or drive to visit if you have a stop on the way. No chance in me hitting the ECR for a while. More chance of the West Coast some day. Colorado next summer I hope, Montana the summer after that and who knows where in the Winters between. Will depend on how the C. G.  winter goes. Most of the trailers here have put skirting around, but my next door neighbor said they didn't the first year, then did and are not planning on doing it this year. I did fine in Lawton, OK last winter but electric was included in the bill. Part of the electric is included here, if you don't go over an allotted amount. I didn't the first month, but it hasn't been real cold yet and I have been limiting the use of my "Dehumidifier" and electric heaters. Once it gets cold I will have to turn on at least one heater in the basement near the water pump. I fill my tank and run off of it and then pick a day where the water won't freeze to fill the tank again. It worked well in OK last year and the year before in Edmond, OK. I forgot I've spent two winters in Oklahoma. 

Rod