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Dometic NDR1292 trips gcfi


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I have installed a new Amish cooling unit. I replaced the ice maker supply line and wrapped it up with the silver metallic tape. It was wrapped with black tape before. Now when I plug the ice maker line heater in it trips the gcfi. Any ideas?  

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In my power distribution career I saw a ton of faulty GFCI's HOWEVER the cheaper big box store units failed much more then the more expensive spec grade used by contractors. NOTE it ONLY takes like 0.005 Amps of fault current to trip a good GFCI and that isn't much. You might try a different tape (or no tape) to see if that matters but actually that shouldn't. Instead of the tape I suspect the heater to be at fault regardless of tape or no tape or material............

 

 John T  

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41 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

Could you have crimped/bent the heater wire enough to break the covering?

That would be what I would look for first as well. You may also want to take the metallic tape to see if that makes it stop. If so, wrap it with black electrical tape and then put the metallic tape back. 

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I removed all the metallic tape. It still tripped the GFCI. I plugged into a non GFCI circuit. This caused some sparking when I touched the leads and some clicking that I think might have been from the little part that is metal and round. This is the part number - 3108706.9729. I blew the 3 amp fuse on the circuit board so I am done until I can get some fuses. Any thoughts?

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From your description it looks like the GFCI was working and doing its job BE THANKFUL...

The Part Number you gave is for a Ice Maker Water Valve

Dometic 3108706.9729 Ice Maker Water Valve Combo Kit | eBay

If it was the cause of blowing a fuse it or the wiring to it may be shorted HOWEVER its clicking may be just be its operating opening and/or closing intermittently due to a bad or shorting connection ELSEWHERE ???

Time to get a VOM and check for resistance, shorts and continuity 

Here's a Manual:  bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/operating/ndr1292.pdf

Here's a Parts List: NDR1292-parts.pdf (gas-refrigerators.com)

Just because you heard it clicking DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN its the main problem, there could well be a short elsewhere that's blowing the fuse which troubleshooting using a VOM can help  

 It sounds like the short is in the 120 VAC wiring and/or components versus the 12 VDC but I just cant say from here.

There's a short somewhere perhaps, BUT WHERE ????????????? 

Sorry all I have to offer not being there to test and troubleshoot

John T

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9 hours ago, youngwillyd said:

Now when I plug the ice maker line heater in it trips the gcfi.

As I study the schematic of your refrigerator, it looks as though you must be connecting the line heater with spade connectors? I must say that I have seen far better schematics. There are 3 somewhat different schematics for that refrigerator but all are the same in the area of what is called a heating cable which must be what you are dealing with. The 3a fuse is the supply of 12V to the entire refrigerator control system entering on pin J4 and going out on J2 to supply the line heater and the interior light(via the door switch). I am unable to locate a service manual for that refrigerator or you specific ice maker. Since the fuse that opened is 12V there is no question that the heater and problem are on the 12V side, as shown in the schematic.

None of that explains the tripping of the GFCI but, since it takes such a small current to do that, it might be possible that the 12V heater was the cause.

The 5a supplying 120V that enters the circuit board on pin J5 and is passed out on pin J8 to supply the 120V heaters when in the electric mode. Based on all of that, I must believe that all of your problem is in that line heater and that there is a pretty good short in the heater. I suggest that you disconnect the heater and use an ohm meter between the two leads to see what reading you get. I am trying to find a value of resistance for that heater but have not been able to do so but if we assume it to draw 1a the resistance of the heater should be at least 12 ohms and probably it would be more in the range of 15-20 ohms. It should not be less than 10 ohms if good and probably is 0 ohms or close to that. I did a search on the part number that you list and find the ice maker water supply valve so I'm thinking there is an error. I did find part numbers for the water line heater kit, but none for replacement parts so you probably will need the entire kit. That kit number is 3108706.668 and can be found on this icemaker manual.

Edited by Kirk W
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17 hours ago, youngwillyd said:

I removed all the metallic tape. It still tripped the GFCI. I plugged into a non GFCI circuit. This caused some sparking when I touched the leads and some clicking that I think might have been from the little part that is metal and round

The GFCI is a part of the 120 VAC feed (12 VDC feed is fuse protected, not GFCI) and sparking on a NON GFCI circuit (versus any tripping) is indicative of a ground fault or short in the wiring or a device/component ??? As long as a GFCI is tripping (or sparking on NON GFCI)  Id be hesitant to use the fridge until the fault is discovered.

 If you have a VOM start tracing for any shorts.

 Sorry this is difficult to diagnose over the net not being there armed with a schematic and VOM but you have to find the short or 120 VAC ground fault for darn sure. With BOTH 120 VAC tripping a GFCI    PLUS    a 12 VDC fuse blowing, troubleshooting may get tricky. The 12 VDC power comes from your DC battery bank (fused not GFCI) while the 120 VAC source is what's GFCI protected and is tripping MEANING THERES A GROUND FAULT !!!!!!!!!!!! Caused by ????????????? 

 One major use of the 120 VAC (which has a ground fault tripping the GFCI) is the simple two wire resistive heating element in which I have experienced ground faults (owned darn RV's for 50 years). It is fed by two wires off the Control board and if it has a short to case/frame/ground a GFCI would likely trip, maybe disconnect it, fix the 12 VDC fuse and problem causing it to blow, THEN SEE IF THE GFCI HOLDS IN ????????????? If so but it trips if the heater is re connected the 120 VAC heating element (or its wiring) must have a short ....Even a very high resistance heating element short to case/frame can trip a GFCI as it only takes like 0.005 amps to trip. GET A VOM AND CHECK IT OUT. With the feed wires from the board removed so your checking the two wire resistive heating element ONLY there should be an OPEN circuit (extreme high resistance approaching infinity but subject to meter) from either terminal to the case/frame/metal of the fridge. If there's continuity from either lead of the heater to case/frame/metal  THATS A GROUND FAULT AND A REASON A GFCI TRIPS DOING ITS JOB Be thankful it works !!!!!!!!!!!         

 If your inexperienced it may be time to seek out an RV technician as a 120 VAC ground fault can be dangerous !!!!  

To make things worse lol the 120 VAC GFCI tripping and the 12 VDC may not necessarily be related YOU MAY HAVE BOTH 12 VDC AND 120 VAC PROBLEMS !!!!!!!!!!!!

 Not much else we can do not being there but hey we try.........

 

 John T  LIVE in the RV from a Cracker Barrell in St George Utah Let us know what you find

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1 hour ago, oldjohnt said:

One major use of the 120 VAC (which has a ground fault tripping the GFCI) is the simple two wire resistive heating element in which I have experienced ground faults (owned darn RV's for 50 years).

If you look at the schematic for the refrigerator you should be able to see that the heater for the water supply to the ice maker is powered by 12V from the refrigerator control circuit board, assuming that it is the "heating cable" that is shown in the schematic in the instructions you linked to as item I, or as G in the larger schematic that I posted from Dometic. Since the GFCI is on the 120V side but the heater seems to be 12V, I would leave the 120V plug for the refrigerator out while looking for a problem in the heating cable.  I have been unable to find a schematic for the ice maker but I do know that in our Dometic refrigerator the ice make requires 120V power to operate. As I look at the icemaker parts breakdown, item #31 is a Kit, Icemaker Heater. My Dometic is a different model and doesn't have the heater on the water supply or I'd look to see how it is powered. I'm wondering if there may be a version of it that gets 120V power? I'm sure that the one in the schematic is powered by 12V to keep it from freezing when you have no 120v. In earlier versions of Dometic refrigerators the instructions said to drain and shut down the icemaker when in below freezing temperatures. 

I have never worked on an RV refrigerator that had that ice maker heating kit installed. I am wondering if Vern is following this and may have seen the kit installed and in use?

Edited by Kirk W
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1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

  I have been unable to find a schematic for the ice maker but I do know that in our Dometic refrigerator the ice make requires 120V power to operate. As I look at the icemaker parts breakdown, item #31 is a Kit, Icemaker Heater. My Dometic is a different model and doesn't have the heater on the water supply or I'd look to see how it is powered. I'm wondering if there may be a version of it that gets 120V power?

I don't have that schematic either grrrrrrrrr Regardless, the 120 VAC supply (if to some sort of a 120 VAC heater as the problem??) is what's tripping the GFCI instead of the battery fed 12 VDC and the cause of that needs to be found and fixed......... BUT IF A 12 VDC PROBLEM (12 Volt heater or anything else) MAY BE CONTRIBUTING TO A 120 VAC GROUND FAULT ?????? I cant say from here but that's NOT typically the case. A 12 VDC problem (heater or something else) may have blown its fuse but that darn 120 VAC ground fault still needs fixed.

 I agree an RV tech who has experience with that model and that problem would sure be good !!!!!!! What's causing the Ground Fault ??????????????????????????

 Hope he gets it fixed and lets us all know the cause

 

 Best wishes yall, John T  Now at a laundromat in Mesquite Nevada with Death Valley in the near future 

   

Edited by oldjohnt
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2 hours ago, oldjohnt said:

I don't have that schematic either

It just crossed my mind that if that heater was designed for 12v and were connected to 120V, that could cause a real problem. But that wouldn't account for the 2a/12V fuse???? 

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1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

It just crossed my mind that if that heater was designed for 12v and were connected to 120V, that could cause a real problem. But that wouldn't account for the 2a/12V fuse???? 

YIKES lol 120 would burn it open like instantly (some smoke also).......If the fuse was still in the DC circuit but the 120 AC got somehow incorrectly across the heater couldn't it backfeed the fuse and before it blew maybe fry the board ???? OUCH

 Hey I'm just thinkin out loud here Kirk darn if I know what happened HOWEVER seems it would be hard to get 120 across a supposedly 12 volt sourced heater???????? 

5 hours ago, Kirk W said:

I have never worked on an RV refrigerator that had that ice maker heating kit installed

Neither have I but hey that don't stop our curious sparky brains from trying to help until someone else arrives lol    

 Im runnin out of smarts here I just don't know what happened

John T  Now at Eureka Casino parking lot in Mesquite Nevada with Valley of Fire, Death Valley and Joshua Tree in the future. Solar and Lithium batteries, although pricey, is great to have since we haven't had or required hookups for weeks yayyyyyyyyy   

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I wonder if there is a dead short in the 120V heater for the frig, as Kirk referenced before; has it been tested?

f looked at the wiring schematic Kirk linked to previously; The only heater shown appears to be the flapper heater instead of the ice maker supply line from the water solenoid.

This is quite difficult since this refrigerator is obsolete and no longer supported.

 

Edited by Ray,IN
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22 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

I wonder if there is a dead short in the 120V heater for the frig

Ifffffffffff there is indeed a 120 Volt heater ??? and ifffffffffffffff there's a short (Ive seen that) a GFCI would trip in a heartbeat and that's a 120 VAC problem NOT on the 12 Volt side of things. Now if and how some sort of a 12 Volt problem still causes a 120 VAC ground fault and blows the 12 Volt fuse Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ??????????????? Hard to say from here

 Take care Neighbor Ray, Im long gone from Indiana now

 

John T headed to Valley of Fire, later Death Valley and Joshua Tree

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On 10/27/2021 at 6:27 PM, oldjohnt said:

YIKES lol 120 would burn it open like instantly (some smoke also).......If the fuse was still in the DC circuit but the 120 AC got somehow incorrectly across the heater couldn't it backfeed the fuse and before it blew maybe fry the board ???? OUCH

Looks like that is what happened. Plugging black to black and white to white seems simple enough. If I was setting this up originally I would put different ends on the 12v and 120v so they couldn’t be plugged  in wrong. I looked back through the videos and I didn’t see any concerns about plugging in the 12v to 120v. 

I guess I have burned something up. Now I have power back to the refrigerator, but it doesn’t do anything. I hear some clicking when I turn it on, but it doesn’t start. It doesn’t display AC or gas. I can smell gas like it starts to run but doesn’t spark. 
 

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37 minutes ago, youngwillyd said:

I guess I have burned something up.

Yikes, maybe the control board?? Ive had best luck with Dinosaur Boards if it ends up you burned yours up. If 129 was applied as I mentioned before it may have backfed the fuse and fried something before it blew ???

 Still hard to say from here

 

John T

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See if it will work on ANYTHING LP or 120 VAC ??? Replace that blown fuse and try it again on BOTH 120 and LP ?? Insure theres 120 VAC present where the fridge plugs in and insure theres 12 VDC present to the fridge. However if it smoked and burned and you somehow accidentally put 120 VAC where 12 belongs &^%$#@  Unless you did it yourself accidentally on its own it would have been difficult to get 120 where 12 belongs STILL A MYSTERY

 

John T  Valley of Fire in Nevada poor internet so I may be absent a while 

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