Will your next car be electric?

[Kirk W]

Thinking About an Electric Vehicle? Some Costs to Keep in Mind

[TXiceman]

I will not be considering an EV until we have at least 50% of the electricity being produced by renewable, non-fossil fueled plants.  Right now, the carbon footprint on an EV is too high.  So, you drive a nice non-polluting EV, but the car is recharged by a fossil fueled power plant.  Plus, recharge stations are too far apart and too few in most locations.  Currently, I see them as a high-cost, limited range golf cart.

I know this does against RV's belief in Tesla, but not now for me.

Ken 

Edited October 23, 2021 by TXiceman

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

I drive a Mustang Mach-e because it is fun.

[Ray,IN]

Comparing Energy Costs per Mile for Electric and Gasoline-Fueled Vehicles

USA Today has a long article on viability today but it can't be read without paying to join their website.

[whj469]

Fuel autos pollute the air we breath. GM and Ford say that all of their autos will be electric by 2035.

[sandsys]

3 hours ago, whj469 said:

Fuel autos pollute the air we breath. GM and Ford say that all of their autos will be electric by 2035.

Because the power plants that make the electricity don't pollute?

[Barbaraok]

Solar, wind, hydro, etc. do not pollute as much as individual vehicles discharging CO, CO2, NOX, etc.     

And, again, change won’t happen overnight.

[sandsys]

46 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

Solar, wind, hydro

The hydro plant in St Paul used to power the Ford Motor Company plant where they built pickup trucks. The one in downtown Minneapolis powered flour mills. I'm not sure what, if anything, they are powering now. I know they dug out canals in Minneapolis but that may only be part of the flour mill museum. There are also hydro mills along the Mississippi River we saw at Corps of Engineer sites but I don't know what they power either--maybe just the gates on the dams and locks?

Linda

[trailertraveler]

Hydro power plants have been on the Environmentalists' hit list for a long time. I believe more are being removed in the name of fisheries restoration than constructed. There is  currently a proposal to remove the dams and hydroelectric plants on the Columbia River to restore salmon populations. If accomplished, this will greatly affect the power grid in the Northwest.  Wind and solar also have environmental impacts such as bird mortality, fisheries and marine mammal disturbance and habitat damage that are only now beginning to be discussed in any detail.

Edited October 24, 2021 by trailertraveler

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, sandsys said:

The hydro plant in St Paul used to power the Ford Motor Company plant where they built pickup trucks. The one in downtown Minneapolis powered flour mills.

Are you telling us that those plants only provided power to a single customer? I spent a lot of time in that area over my 32 years with 3M and do remember some hydro-electric plants along the Mississippi, but never asked who the power went to. I haven't been that way now in 20 years but would think that those plants would still be there....

One thing that I have often wondered and have yet to find any answer for is, if you harvest enough energy from the atmosphere, solar, wind, etc., wouldn't you expect that eventually the removal of that energy would impact our weather? I know that it would take far more than what we are harvesting today, but in theory I'd think that it would happen.

[k4rs]

Another consideration that I have not seen mentioned is that if Electric Vehicles are to become mainstream, we will need to massively increase generating capacity.  California is moving quickly to adopt EV's, but currently have rolling blackouts when it gets hot and everyone uses their air conditioning. 

Safe Travels...

[Barbaraok]

Yes, there will be a change in how we charge the vehicles, etc.   Less corner fuel stations with underground tanks that can leak and more charging stations in parking lots where you hold your phone close to start/pay for charging.   Less well drilling, more development of alternative energy sources.   BUT, this doesn't happen overnight, it will take time, which is why we need to start NOW!  

 

[noteven]

I did a rough calculation a while ago. I used figures from the US government energy agency.

Based on gasoline motor fuel used per day x 30% efficiency for gas engines and converting that quantity to electric kilowatts equivalent at 100% efficiency to favor electricity, the electricity generation capacity of the continental USA would have to approximately double to replace 30% of the gasoline used per day.

In addition the generation in the USA is around 67% fossil fuelled now so that 67% needs to also be replaced and the new doubling cannot be fossil fuelled.

In summary: replace 67% of the grid with zero emission sources then double the grid. That covers the gasoline fleet. 
Then there is the diesel fleet: trucks, busses, railways, coastal and inland marine, aircraft,

and then military.

 

 

[Barbaraok]

And?  Are you saying that it can’t be done?   

[Randyretired]

To accomplish a feat of this magnitude it is advisable to determine what needs to happen and then a comprehensive plan to actually do it.  I haven't seen either to the degree that most experts say is necessary.  So can it be done?  Certainly but when?  

[Ray,IN]

39 minutes ago, Randyretired said:

To accomplish a feat of this magnitude it is advisable to determine what needs to happen and then a comprehensive plan to actually do it.  I haven't seen either to the degree that most experts say is necessary.  So can it be done?  Certainly but when?  

Exactly!

[usbusin]

Quote

Exactly!

X2

[noteven]

2 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

And?  Are you saying that it can’t be done?   

Where did I infer it couldn’t be done? 

A power grid was built the first time why couldn’t it be built 1.6 times over again? 

[TXiceman]

5 hours ago, noteven said:

I did a rough calculation a while ago. I used figures from the US government energy agency.

Based on gasoline motor fuel used per day x 30% efficiency for gas engines and converting that quantity to electric kilowatts equivalent at 100% efficiency to favor electricity, the electricity generation capacity of the continental USA would have to approximately double to replace 30% of the gasoline used per day.

I

 

 

Generating and running electric motors in nowhere near 100% efficient.  There are generator losses, power transmicssio0ns losses and finally the electric motor is not 100% efficient.

Ken

[noteven]

30 minutes ago, TXiceman said:

Generating and running electric motors in nowhere near 100% efficient.  There are generator losses, power transmicssio0ns losses and finally the electric motor is not 100% efficient.

Ken

I kinda know that Ken but I don't have the credentials* to do those calculations. 

 

 

* too stupid most days 🤣

[RV_]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:43 AM, TXiceman said:

I know this does against RV's belief in Tesla, but not now for me.

Ken 

Ken, I disagree on the fossil fueled electric bring more polluting than the fossil fueled drilling, fossil fueled pumping, fossil fueled tankers,fossil fueled manufacturing of fossil fueled cars which I agree are the same, fossil fueled refineries, but then with less than 5-10% of the 1.3 billion vehicles worldwide being electric today, (not counting big industrial vehicles) there are roughly a billion plus tailpipes spewing, after their energy is refined. But fossil fueled vehicles can't use electric from nuclear, windmills, solar and geothermal. I'm an owner and investor, and a fast car and motor enthusiast. The green part's a side benefit. But I do correct the bad press.

Ken, I mean no offense when I say I write a lot about Tesla and developments in the EV tow space as well, but The Tesla I drive is not a belief but a physical fact.

Let's face it guys, EVs are coming to stay, here and around the world. The beliefs not grounded in fact can't and won't change that.

And I don't bite the hand that feeds me. I have made a lot of money with Tesla, from the thousand shares I already sold to the shares I bought last year @ $350 now just over $900.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on what we choose to drive. It's like Chevy/Ford/Ram truck debates. Of course we all know I chose the Ram 1 ton Cummins dually for our seven years of full time RVing and the Ram 2500 5.9 Cummins single rear wheeled diesels after coming off the road to tow a variety of much smaller rigs for weekends.

No offense taken guys, I still drive my real and tangible Tesla EV as more and more folks are doing. I think all of us will be dead and gone who are 64 and up before all fossil fueled vehicles are gone. I just find facts about today and the near future fascinating. Fusion future anyone? 

 

[Barbaraok]

16 hours ago, Randyretired said:

To accomplish a feat of this magnitude it is advisable to determine what needs to happen and then a comprehensive plan to actually do it.  I haven't seen either to the degree that most experts say is necessary.  So can it be done?  Certainly but when?  

It will be completed long after my ashes (and yours) have returned all of our atoms to the earth for recycling.  BUT it will happen.   Why fuss about when, just sit back and watch the changes to come.    My mother was born in a Shoddy on the Montana plains and lived to see people walk on the moon!  I remember our first telephone had NO dial, just pick up the receiver and tell the operator who you wanted.  And it was black.  Now I have more computer power in my cell phone than they had in Apollo 11, which landed men on the moon!     And my daughter has a "Dick Tracy" Watch!   Where is your imagination?  Where is your zest for the new, the sense of wonder that you had as a child?  

[Ray,IN]

• OK, now where's the folks that's going to build the infrastructure?
•  
• Copy N paste:
• Tesla soared as much as 8% to record highs on Monday after Hertz said it ordered 100,000 Model 3 vehicles.
• Hertz will operate the largest EV rental fleet in the world when it receives the vehicles in 2022.
• The vehicle purchase by Hertz will reportedly cost $4.2 billion, suggesting Tesla offered little discounts.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ray,IN

[durangodon]

There are those with the imagination and vision to venture into the unknown.  There are others with the practical knowledge and mechanical skills to recognize the challenges and make it happen.  It takes both kinds of people to create.   It's foolish and unproductive to criticize either.

[Pieere]

Folks; I am just a Simple Man of 70 + years. The most fantastic I ever seen was the first Gulf War. Lasers that could hit a target 500 miles away; yes it failed a few times, but hey! Then came a T-100 Compact Computer! Oh my; than some with moving pictures and audio! What about the first Brick Phone in 1993 I used to call from my Taxi! I started employ with golf carts; an Electronic Techies told me it took 1.2 Volts to charge the 12V batteries that consumed 1 volt of power. Seems logical as it took about a night to fully charge  a low 50% battery pack to 100%. They still need to charge electric which consumes power to charge them. Just think when science and electronics will do when someone can figure out how to get completely FREE Electric Power!! "JMHO from and Old School Mechanical Mind!"