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Trains In The Netherlands Are 100% Powered By Wind


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Anyone who cares to research all sides knows Electric cars are inevitable and coming. Folks who naysay EVs and renewables rarely show their sources, I call them Egyptians because they are "In de Nile." I show mine so please show yours. 😊

Excerpt:

"Trains In The Netherlands Are 100% Powered By Wind

trains in the netherlands run on renewable wind energy

Not surprisingly, the trains in the Netherlands are powered by 100% wind energy. The country is, after all, world-famous for its picturesque windmills! Initially, the windmills were used to make electricity to pump water or grind grain. Now, there are turbines as well across the landscape that make electricity to help Dutch commuters get to work.

Since January 1, 2017, every single one of the electric trains belonging to Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS), one of the country’s national railway companies, has been running on energy harvested from the wind. They had been working with Eneco, a ‘sustainable energy supplier’ operating in the Netherlands, for several years to make this happen.

As if that isn’t impressive enough, they even reached this goal 100% renewable energy a whole year ahead of schedule. And the country’s overachievement doesn’t stop there!

According to the Global Wind Energy Council, record-breaking turbines capable of generating 586 MW of electricity were installed between January and December of 2015. Then in 2016, Dutch wind hit the headlines again, when a 700 MW offshore wind farm near the town of Borssele became the most ‘cost-effective’ in the world. It was because of these earlier achievements that NS and Eneco were able to hit their target so far ahead of schedule.

The amount of electricity they need to power these trains is no small number either. NS operates about 5,500 train trips daily. The company carries 600,000 people per day, requiring around 1.2 billion kWh of electricity a year. That’s enough electricity to power all the households in Amsterdam, the country’s largest city. The fact that they can generate that much power from wind alone is a huge deal!

The electricity delivered to the train is used to power lights, and air-conditioning, as well as the traction motors, which are what turn the train’s wheels. NS is the first rail company in the world that runs its fleet entirely on renewable energy. One wind turbine running for an hour can power a train for 120 miles, the companies said."

More in the article here: https://www.intelligentliving.co/amp/trains-netherlands-wind/

 

 

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I was wondering why the naysayers get quiet about solutions to the electrical grid already being done in other countries that work. I guess it is the renewables that set off the anti green because of the barrage of Koch brothers anti anything that threatens their polluting and oil interests. Now just Charles since David died. Nothing political but many folks, some here and millions elsewhere, will just go with confirmation bias. 

So here we find a great non fossil fueled energy system for big trains. All the "I did the math" people can give their estimate of how many EVs that power grid would support. One train of hundreds of tons versus how many RVs?

So Jim what do you think? Are all the Dutch going to get power or cancer from their windmills?🤣

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Noteven,

Good question. I had to look around for a current article (pun int.) I don't think the trains are EVs with batteries but they use the traditional overhead lines and third rails. Here is an very good article with more info:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lauriewinkless/2017/01/12/dutch-trains-are-now-powered-by-wind/?sh=540b78c22d29

In that article they mention a 100 mile per hour limit on third rail trains because the the "Pickup Shoes" lose contact too much over that speed so over head for higher speed trains.

I believe they are on the grid and built up enough wind power to run the trains.

Europe is serious about EVs and electric transport. We have aircraft coming online with battery electric, EV aircraft if you will, as well.

Here's an article with six EV aircraft companies that are doing that too: https://www.greenbiz.com/article/6-electric-aviation-companies-watch

I am quitting here and making that a separate topic in another thread. Lots has happened.

 

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6 hours ago, RV_ said:

I believe they are on the grid and built up enough wind power to run the trains.

Of course, that is how they operate. In reality the trains don't "really" run on electrons produced by wind energy.  It's simply that the total kW-h of energy need to run the trains is less than the total energy generated by wind power.

IMHO articles with this sort of headline are not much more than "clickbait".   Yes, wind power is an important part of the grid in the Netherlands but the trains wouldn't run well if they had to rely solely on wind power without a grid to back them up.  A modern electric grid is composed of a mix of generation capacity with renewable energy now taking a major role.

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4 hours ago, docj said:

Of course, that is how they operate. In reality the trains don't "really" run on electrons produced by wind energy.  It's simply that the total kW-h of energy need to run the trains is less than the total energy generated by wind power.

IMHO articles with this sort of headline are not much more than "clickbait".   Yes, wind power is an important part of the grid in the Netherlands but the trains wouldn't run well if they had to rely solely on wind power without a grid to back them up.  A modern electric grid is composed of a mix of generation capacity with renewable energy now taking a major role.

Joel, that's quibbling. The difference is they funded and built  new windmills for train energy use exactly to offset the train energy use intentionally as part of their carbon policies. The rest of the world is serious about the climate accords.

Just read the article. The Windmills were part of a train power project and no matter how you slice it there is wind power offsetting their carbon use. You didn't like that Germany is fast approaching 30% EVs either. 

But we are catching up there in the US now.

We didn't have commercial jets or nuclear power in 1939 when the movie the Wizard of Oz was made. Five years later we saw fighter jets on the other side, and six years later we used Atomic Bombs. Fusion is close too. They are sticking with net energy by 2025 and estimate commercial for 2030. I'll just be 78 then and believe I'll see it.

I would suggest the naysayers take a Tesla for a test drive now, the car and company folks here called a pump and dump in 2003-2008 when they did not IPO until 2010.

All energy is renewable as it all starts with solar for plants for herbivores, who provide energy for carnivores and omnivores. Is that invalid because the electrons are not the same photons that started the chain of energy? We do big advances in little increments. Shell is threatening to have EV chargers out front and acts like they are transitioning. As if.

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11 hours ago, sandsys said:

Maybe if half our country got coastal breezes we could have more wind power. Inland you have to find places like Buffalo Ridge in southwestern Minnesota to get the most from wind power.

Linda

Solar Linda? As well, we have more coastline than any European countries that are smaller than some of our states. Germany is on about the same latitudes as Canada, yet this news report said their solar programs succeed because they get more sun than the US??????

Offshore wind farms and Solar in the heartland might be a great idea. I've read about the days when indoor plumbing was too expensive for the common man too. Cheap or free energy will become commonplace too.

I know you know better, but lots of folks saw that years ago and still believe it, talk about gullible.

 

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8 hours ago, RV_ said:

You didn't like that Germany is fast approaching 30% EVs either. 

Please don't ever infer what you think I like and dislike.  I am in favor of conversion to non-polluting vehicles, which includes EVs.  What I have objected to is some of the excessive, nearly messianic, hype that some of their supporters exude.

As for Germany, the attached graph doesn't appear to show a 30% market penetration for Ev's.  EV's in Germany

germany.png

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This is only for 2020, electric vehicle's (Hybrids/plug in hybrids/battery EVs) market share has risen much more so far in 2021.

CleanTechnica

 
TIDY-December-2020-Germany-Passenger-Aut

Cars

German EV Market Reaches Escape Velocity — Record 27% Share In December

Germany, Europe’s largest auto market and the 4th largest in the world, achieved 26.6% plugin electric vehicle share in December. This is a stunning ascent from the 4.0% share seen in December 2019.

fc44d6304819563ad22d791290b13730?s=40&d=

Published

January 8, 2021

Germany, Europe’s largest auto market and the 4th largest in the world, achieved 26.6% plugin electric vehicle share in December. This is a stunning ascent from the 4.0% share seen in December 2019. The Volkswagen brand dominated Germany’s full battery electric sales in 2020, taking almost 24% of the market, with Renault runner-up at 16%.

TIDY-December-2020-Germany-Passenger-Aut

December’s 26.6% combined plugin share was led by full battery electric vehicles (BEVs) at 14.0% of the market, with plugin hybrids (PHEVs) close behind at 12.6% share. The full year 2020 shares were remarkably even at almost 6.7% BEV and almost 6.9% PHEV, for a combined annual plugin share of just over 13.5%. That’s a huge jump up from 2019’s overall share of 3.0%.

In terms of volumes, Germany’s overall auto market was down 19.1% in 2020, to 2.9175 million. The annual decline was softened by a strong recovery in December, which was up 9.9% year-on-year, at over 311,000 sales. 2020’s plugin vehicle sales grew over 2019 by a huge 263% to 394,632 units.

We can see the growth in plugin electric vehicles over the course of 2020 by observing the evolution of powertrain shares month-by-month:

TIDY-Germany-2020_-Monthly-Powertrain-Ma

We don’t yet have the full details of BEV model sales for December, but we do have some information on the top 5 best selling BEV brands for the year as a whole. Volkswagen (with the e-Golf, ID.3, e-Up!, and perhaps a few ID.4) strongly led Germany’s full year sales of BEVs, with almost 24% share of the market:

Tidy-2020-Germany-Top-Brands.png

However, the year’s single best selling BEV model (by far) was the Renault ZOE, with over 31,000 sales. We can deduce that the runner up was a close race between the Volkswagen e-Golf, and the VW ID.3, with the Tesla Model 3, and Hyundai Kona, not too far behind.

Volkswagen’s BEV delivery total rose by a massive ~13,800 units in December alone. Unless the VW ID.4 started delivering in the home market (which is possible), this huge number implies that the ID.3 delivered a flood of vehicles (perhaps around 9,000 units) in the month. If so, the ID.3 would have ended 2020 with a total of around 17,000 sales in Germany, amazing considering the September delivery commencement.

Either way, it looks like the soon-to-retire VW e-Golf may have put in a late rally, and ended with close to 18,000 sales, and so probably took the #2 spot behind the ZOE. But we won’t know the #2 and lower spots for sure until a week or two from now, so keep an eye out for Jose’s model sales report later this month.

Tesla took #3 brand position thanks to the Model 3, which saw around ~15,000 sales, up 66% over 2019’s result. Smart took #4 position, thanks to the Smart Fortwo, helped by the fact that that around 60% of Smart’s European BEV volume is sold into Germany. Hyundai’s ever popular Kona helped the brand attain the #5 spot.

ZOE-comp.jpgRenault ZOE. Image courtesy of Renault.

After an amazing 2020, what does 2021 hold in store for Germany’s plugin electric vehicle market? In past years in Germany, January has usually started close to the average of Q4 of the previous year (around 22% in 2020), which would obviously lay a strong foundation for 2021.

But it’s hard to say whether this historical pattern will hold again this time, as we move from the disrupted 2020 into an uncertain 2021. I expect Germany will see a 2021 average plugin electric vehicle  share of at least 25%, with December climbing well into the 30s, perhaps even breeching 40% share. But 2021 in Germany will probably produce more surprises.

What do you think? Please join in the comments section to share your thoughts.

Source:  https://cleantechnica.com/2021/01/08/german-ev-market-reaches-escape-velocity-record-27-share-in-december/#:~:text=Germany%2C Europe’s largest auto market and the 4th,from the 4.0% share seen in December 2019.

(without paywall like your link Joel, for no confirmation bias and context.)

Nice try.

Your hyperbole at least is consistent rallying the common folk around fears and resistance to change with pitchforks around the monster's castle. 😁

 

 

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4 hours ago, docj said:

Please don't ever infer what you think I like and dislike.  I am in favor of conversion to non-polluting vehicles, which includes EVs.  What I have objected to is some of the excessive, nearly messianic, hype that some of their supporters exude.

 

I don't infer Joel, I just read what you post rebutting my energy posts, several times without even reading the link/s provided. Then when pointed out you change the subject or try to find another approach. No inference there.

"What I have objected to is some of the excessive, nearly messianic, hype that some of their supporters exude."

And who are some of their supporters in this thread? Who is implying and inferring couched in second person that my posts of facts are excessive nearly messianic hype? Presenting facts and disagreeing with some folks without the name calling, attempts to trigger you or others seems to trigger bias confirmation responses in some.

The full set of graphs above is broken down for Electric vehicles of all types. How did you miss those in your search for your anti-messianic rebuttal this time? And a paywall?? This reminds me of several times here when a quote was given without the quote link. The last time that happened it turned out to be a debate between scientists that presented both sides but only the opening paragraph that agreed with what the SKP wanted reality to be was posted with the next paragraph not saying what the poster wanted it to say so it was left out and the paywall link was accidentally left out because it showed both sides. It just was not so. The actual article was also behind a paywall in that case too, and that was not you.  I found the article and it actually said the opposite and agreed with me.

So Joel, please don't take the victim role when you say my facts are wrong then use a paywall to be the poor person getting all inferred upon because of what you wrote.

So here we are again. You see a big argument and try to rebut with paywall and partial facts from several years back? 

Please break the pattern and we will be fine OK?

I post a breakthrough increment that is promising and later is proven as a good incremental step, you call it click-bait and hype which in itself is unsupported hype posting incomplete sources or behind a paywall, then I post full factual content from good cross checked worldwide open sources, without calling your and your post names like click-bait and messianic hype then you claim foul! He posted provable facts.

I am happy to post facts back to you when you try to name call my posts, please don't pretend a rebuttal of confirmation bias is an attack.

Will rogers once paraphrased that:

"It ain't what a man knows that gets him in trouble, it's what he thinks he knows that just ain't so."

I learned a long time ago that when it counts, to always check my premise.

I was told "no electric car will ever sell and the guy Musk is talking going to Mars, what a nutjob! It is all just a pump and dump . . . " that and more circa 2003-2008.

Today I drive  a Tesla, an actual electric car, a fact if you will, and NASA has Musk finishing up R&D on another bold disruption of man's exploration of our solar system with a Mars manned mission planned for 2025. Facts.

What everyone thought they knew just a few years back, just wasn't so.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." - Senator Patrick Moynihan.

The best revenge is living well.

Safe Travels Joel.

 

 

 

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Joel your 1-2% market share graph seems to not be accurate. The idea is to move forward and eliminate fossil fuel pollution from ICE age cars. You said you were in favor of that. In vehicles we have hybrid EVs and plug in hybrid EVs I think we all agree are transitional electric vehicles that reduce pollution a lot, and full battery EVs that eliminate tailpipe emissions 100%. Factory vehicle emissions can be scrubbed and recycling of batteries is being done very well this year.

Other sources:

Hybrids are getting enough battery range to keep sales up as of this year that I include all plugins when I say EVs. Why? Because they rely less and less on their fossil engines every year with battery prices and charging tech getting better every year. And because folks don’t read lines of statistics for context and trend analysis. Or hide it when it disagrees with their preconceived notions.

 I and most consider hybrids transitional and once folks find they can, in some places with some brands, like Tesla in the US now,  and soon most places and brands, charge at half remaining range as quickly as fueling a car at half tank.

The energy for that can be supplied by new energy infrastructure that can’t even support the pre-EV loads as they increased the demand just by population. Read the debacle of the Texas grid failures of 1989, then the massive one in 2011 which caused the formation of ERCOT to winter-harden their gas and electric production facilities that froze. They apparently did little to nothing from 2011 to 2021's freeze, and we had the loss of lives and millions in property damage from it. Their little private, unregulated, grid failure to harden, was blamed on the renewables which was disproven immediately, then blamed on the private suppliers saying they did not want to spend the money with threats of increased prices. Then on ERCOT for not doing their job? I hope we don't, but if we have another big freeze, I hope we do not find that little has changed and they are betting lives and millions in citizen property damage versus energy suppliers saving money from spending on much needed infrastructure hardening for extreme cold. Did they harden or are they betting it won’t happen two years in a row? We’ll see right? Whenever it happens again I hope they are ready and their grid doesn’t fail again. Without bad weather this past summer they had blackouts and grid strain from not growing and investing with demand. My point is that blaming old infrastructure already not meeting demand on EVs or renewables is disingenuous, but popular in some circles.   

"In July, gasoline-powered vehicles accounted for a 34.9% market share to 39.4% market share to 93,176 units, Hybrid vehicles had a 29.5% to 69,795 units. Diesel vehicles had a 19.7% market share to 46,660 units and EV had a 10.8% market share to 25,464 units.

Sales of 23,777 trucks in July represented a decrease of 10.8% over the previous year, while sales of 569 buses were a 6.9% decrease. The VDA announced that monthly passenger car exports of 172,200 units had decreased 27%and domestic production of 246,600 units had decreased 25% year over year.

 

(Scroll down to)

Flash report, June 2021/July 6 2021

. . .

In June gasoline-powered vehicles accounted for a 39.5% market share, Hybrid vehicles had a 27.9%. Diesel vehicles had a 19.9% market share and EV had a 12.2% market share."

Source: https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/automotive-sales-in-germany-by-month

 

In 2020, Germany remained by far the largest European market for electrically chargeable vehicles with sales up 263%. France also tripled sales to move up from fifth to second place. The United Kingdom was again the third-largest market for electrified cars in Europe. Norway and the Netherlands were the worst performing markets with sales up by only a third, as both countries already enjoyed deeper market penetration by electrified cars than other European markets. Both slipped two places.

New electric passenger vehicle registrations in Germany in 2020 increased by 207% to 194,163 battery-electric cars. This increased electric cars’ share of the German new car market from 1.75% in 2019 to 6.65% in 2020.

The total German new car market contracted by 19.1% in 2020 to 2,917,678 — the smallest market since 2010. Petrol remained by far the largest component of new cars but the market share slipped to 46.7% in 2020, while the share for diesel was down to 28.1%.

Hybrid cars took a market share of 18.1% (6.6% in 2019) with 527,864 (+120%) hybrid car registrations in Germany for the first time in 2020.  This number included 200,469 (+342%) plug-in hybrids for a market share of 6.9%”

Source: https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2020-full-year-germany-best-selling-electric-cars-by-brand-and-model/

Let’s do the market share math: Hybrids 18.1%, plug in hybrids 6.9%, and full EVs12.2% = 37.2% Market share for electric vehicles. That takes the carbon out or mostly eliminated from all those EVs.

Germany leads but all Europe? From NASDAQ.com:

“The European Automobile Manufacturers Association (ACEA) reported that nearly one in six-passenger cars registered in the European Union in the fourth quarter of 2020 was an electrically-chargeable vehicle, 16.5 percent, with 1.3 million units registered in Europe in 2020. “

Source: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/europe-is-subsidizing-its-way-into-electric-vehicle-leadership-2021-09-09

The numbers are much higher for 2021, and we will have those figures in a few months at the beginning of 2022.

Safe travels!

 

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U.S. utility-scale electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 20201

Preliminary data as of February 2021  

Energy sourceBillion kWhShare of total

Total - all sources4,009

Fossil fuels (total)2,41960.3%

Natural Gas1,61740.3%

Coal77419.3%

Petroleum (total)170.4%

Petroleum liquids100.2%

Petroleum coke80.2%

Other gases110.3%

Nuclear79019.7%

Renewables (total)79219.8%

Wind3388.4%

Hydropower2917.3%

Solar (total)912.3%

Photovoltaic882.2%

Solar thermal30.1%

Biomass (total)561.4%

Wood370.9%

Landfill gas100.3%

Municipal solid waste (biogenic)60.2%

Other biomass waste20.1%

Geothermal170.4%

Pumped storage hydropower3-5-0.1%

Other sources4130.3%

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?

Edited by Kirk W
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Wow! Thanks noteven and Kirk for some great data and links! Renewables are increasing more by the year. I would like to see more targeted infrastructure increases here in renewables like they did in Germany. Those go in my saved links too.

Kirk if I may post more from yours as you left out the share of total by percent:

U.S. utility-scale electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 20201
Preliminary data as of February 2021    
Energy source Billion kWh Share of total
Total - all sources 4,009
Fossil fuels (total) 2,419 60.3%
Natural Gas 1,617 40.3%
Coal 774 19.3%
Petroleum (total) 17 0.4%
Petroleum liquids 10 0.2%
Petroleum coke 8 0.2%
Other gases 11 0.3%
Nuclear 790 19.7%
Renewables (total) 792 19.8%
Wind 338 8.4%
Hydropower 291 7.3%
Solar (total) 91 2.3%
Photovoltaic 88 2.2%
Solar thermal 3 0.1%
Biomass (total) 56 1.4%
Wood 37 0.9%
Landfill gas 10 0.3%
Municipal solid waste (biogenic) 6 0.2%
Other biomass waste 2 0.1%
Geothermal 17 0.4%
Pumped storage hydropower3 -5 -0.1%
Other sources4 13 0.3%
     

1Utility-scale electricity generation is electricity generation from power plants with at least one megawatt (or 1,000 kilowatts) of total electricity generating capacity. Data are for net electricity generation.
2 Small-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) systems are electricity generators with less than one megawatt (MW) of electricity generating capacity, which are not connected at a power plant that has a combined capacity of one MW or larger. Most small-scale PV systems are at or near the location where the electricity is consumed and many are net metered systems. The smaller ones are usually installed on building rooftops.
3Pumped storage hydroelectricity generation is negative because most pumped storage electricity generation facilities use more electricity than they produce on an annual basis. Most pumped storage systems use fossil fuels or nuclear energy for pumping water to the storage component of the system.
4 Other sources includes non-biogenic municipal solid waste, batteries, hydrogen, purchased steam, sulfur, tire-derived fuel, and other miscellaneous energy sources.

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Noteven,

Like Germany which does get less sun than the US, Canada does get less sun year round than the US but still plenty. However you guys have lots of coastline and wind too. The wind turbines you do have are hardened and survived the extreme cold just fine.

Energy storage is still behind renewables energy generation. I am hoping that the Gates backed fusion I mention in another thread comes in earlier than predicted. (Yep that happens too sometimes)

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17 hours ago, RV_ said:

Noteven,

Like Germany which does get less sun than the US, Canada does get less sun year round than the US but still plenty. However you guys have lots of coastline and wind too. The wind turbines you do have are hardened and survived the extreme cold just fine.

Energy storage is still behind renewables energy generation. I am hoping that the Gates backed fusion I mention in another thread comes in earlier than predicted. (Yep that happens too sometimes)

Yes storage of solar and wind energy is a challenge. 

 

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