Lou Schneider Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, docj said: But it's still contributing to the CO2 problem, so I can't get excited about it. EV's powered by electricity that contributes to the overall problem don't buy society that much of a benefit. JMO The alternative is to let the dead trees decompose on the ground. Won't this release the same amount of carbon? Edited September 2, 2021 by Lou Schneider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 Good grief so many on here are so myopic it is unbelievable! No it won’t change over tomorrow. Most of us won’t live to see every item completed, BUT CHANGE IS COMING. Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docj Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 28 minutes ago, Lou Schneider said: The alternative is to let the dead trees decompose on the ground. Won't this release the same amount of carbon? Actually, it probably won't since not all the organic, carbon-containing compounds in the tree will be aerosolized. Some, probably a lot of them, will end up in "stuff" that gets mixed into the soil. Sandie & Joel 2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12 2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake systemWiFiRanger Ambassador Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch_12078 Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 If my reading of the articles was correct, the gasification process they'll be using converts the wood material to biochar that effectively traps the carbon as a solid rather than releasing it as an airborne contaminant. Isn't that a good thing? Dutch 2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A F-53 Chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS 2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/brake system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 So why invest into something that won't happen in our lifetime? 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbaraok Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 hour ago, GlennWest said: So why invest into something that won't happen in our lifetime? Because a long the way the companies will be involved in new technologies, etc., and will make money. Oh wait, you only invest after they are at the top of the market? 🥺 Barb & Dave O'Keeffe 2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynosback Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 9:15 AM, GlennWest said: Oh I can see hybirds. Just not evs. In a perfect world where everyone works 30 miles from home, grocery store around the corner but construction workers go to the job wherever it is being built. And power plants pollute. Just trading one evil for another. But a lot of power companies are building cleaner electricity. Like Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Geo Thermal and even Tidal. But until we stop burning coal, I agree that we are trading one evil for another. 2015 Ram 3500 RC DRW CTD AISIN 410 rear 2016 Mobile Suites 38RSB3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docj Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dutch_12078 said: If my reading of the articles was correct, the gasification process they'll be using converts the wood material to biochar that effectively traps the carbon as a solid rather than releasing it as an airborne contaminant. Isn't that a good thing? I agree that most of the carbon is sequestered in the biochar but in normal biomass pyrolysis I thnk some of it ends up as syngas and syn-oil the value of which is in their fuel content so some combustion remains in the process. https://www.ars.usda.gov/northeast-area/wyndmoor-pa/eastern-regional-research-center/docs/biomass-pyrolysis-research-1/what-is-pyrolysis/ What I can't figure out is what is the economic rationale for the plant. It appears that the real driver is a desire to help alleviate an economic slump caused by the closing of a timber mill as discussed here: https://cvnmtc.com/north-fork-bioenergy-plant/ This plant will take biomass waste being removed from the forest for fire reduction purposes and will derate its energy value by turning the carbon into biochar and burning the syngas and syn-oil to provide the process heat needed. Presumably, the net benefit is to reduce the volume of biomass waste without having to burn all of it. Presumably the combustion of the syngas and syn-oil still has to release carbon into the air so it would appear to me that what's primarily been done is to reduce the amount of carbon that would have been released by burning all of it in a more conventional manner. What I'd like to see is a economic and societal benefit analysis that compares this with the alternatives which might just be burying the waste so it decays in the soil. Or why can't it be chipped into mulch? I'm not proposing solutions but I sure don wonder if this is anything more than a typical DOE pork barrel "demonstration project" of the kind that often lacks economic basis and, as a result, goes nowhere. In the past I've had multiple years of managing similar projects at DOE in the renewable energy area, so I do speak with a basis of at least some experience. Edited September 2, 2021 by docj Sandie & Joel 2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12 2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake systemWiFiRanger Ambassador Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 20 hours ago, noteven said: Saying there is no place for electric powered vehicles is like saying you want to go back to Briggs & Stratton engine powered clothes washing machines on the back porch. Politicians are setting goals for EV vehicle fleet %'s by such and such a year. What is the plan to develop infrastructure to convert other energy into electrical energy to power the EV fleet by such and such a year? I wondered. So I went to the EIA website and read: "In 2020, Americans used about 123 billion gallons of motor gasoline—or about 337 million gallons per day—and about 166 million gallons of aviation gasoline. Gasoline is one of the major fuels consumed in the United States and is the main product that U.S. oil refineries produce. Most of the motor gasoline sold for use in vehicles in the United States is about 10% fuel ethanol by volume." Here is where I need help: Let's say a light vehicle gasoline engine is 30% efficient - 30% of the energy in a gallon of gas is used for motive power, 70% being lost to heat, what does that represent in terms of electricity needed to power the same fleet of vehicles if they are electric? In other words, how many megawatts of electricity replaces the energy in 36,900,000,000 (30% of 123 billion) gallons of gasoline? What is the plan to generate and distribute it? I did some looking around - there does not seem to be agreement in how much electric energy equivalent (kw) is available in gasoline so I used the US EPA number of 33.7 kwh of energy available in a USgal of gasoline. (The other kwH/gallon numbers I found are close to this). So a daily net work from 36,900,000,000 gallons of gasoline = 1,243,530,000,000 kwh / 1000 = 1,243,530,000 MWhours. From the EIA website - "At the end of 2020, the United States had 1,117,475 MW—or about 1.12 billion kilowatts (kW)—of total utility-scale electricity generating capacity and about 27,724 MW—or nearly 0.03 billion kW—of small-scale solar photovoltaic electricity generating capacity." What is suprising is 43% is generated using natural gas. I thought coal was the bogeyman ... I digress... EIA info So in theory the gasoline fleet could be eventually replaced with electric vehicles by doubling the total generation capacity available today, based on gasoline vehicles converting 30% of the energy/gallon to power to road and vehicle systems / 70% lost out the exhaust pipe and cooling system. "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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