trimster Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 Having NOT personally moved a Smart onto the bed of the truck, there's two options: Drive it or winch it on. I'm setup for the winch option now. The question(s)... 1) is the tow package installed on the Smarts strong enough to support the weight of the car while being winched aboard? 2) is a 3000# winch enough to pull it up? It currently works pretty hard pulling our 1000# Spyder up, but it does so without a glitch. The Smart tips the scales around 2000#. Not sure how to calculate the 'load' with it going up the ramps. 12' ramps, 47" rise. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steiny93 Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 Winching it on will be a lot less 'exciting' specially when conditions are subpar (night / rain / etc). For the SxS / quads and the one time I loaded a smart the 4500lb winch was plenty of power. Quote 2000 volvo 6102013 cyclone 3950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 If you double the cable be much smoother and less stress on winch. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 Just now, GlennWest said: If you double the cable be much smoother and less stress on winch. So 2:1 ratio. Have to check if the winch drum will handle that much line. 50' has it about 90% full now. I'd need 75' to do the 2:1 ratio. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 47 minutes ago, trimster said: So 2:1 ratio. Have to check if the winch drum will handle that much line. 50' has it about 90% full now. I'd need 75' to do the 2:1 ratio. Park closer to the truck. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 12' ramps kinda fix that distance. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 Just now, trimster said: 12' ramps kinda fix that distance. 12' of rope, plus 8'6" for the bed width, add 1 full wrap for proper winch safety, and you're still well short of 50'. Just sayin'. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said: 12' of rope, plus 8'6" for the bed width, add 1 full wrap for proper winch safety, and you're still well short of 50'. Just sayin'. 2:1 ratio requires out-back-out. Just out-back is still 1:1 I think. So 60' min. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 2:1 is only double line. You're describing triple. From the winch, to a pulley, back to the winch (or it's mounting surface). Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 28 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said: 2:1 is only double line. You're describing triple. From the winch, to a pulley, back to the winch (or it's mounting surface). Looking up block n tackle ratios. ... Winch to load (direct), and winch to pully on load back to winch support is 1:1. Maybe I've misread the drawings/tutorials. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickeieio Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 FWIW, we (meaning my wife) drive ours on, with a 40" deck height and 10' ramps. BUT, I'm incorporating a winch mount into the bed, plus building a set of "race ramps", 48" long with 10" rise. We've loaded with the 10' ramps and no race ramps (and 43" deck height) for the past 6 years with zero issues. I'm planning to buy a light duty winch but use a snatch block for 2:1 . If I back the car up on the race ramps, then attach the line, I'll need about 42' of line total. Quote KW T-680, POPEMOBILE Newmar X-Aire, VATICAN Lots of old motorcycles, Moto Guzzi Griso and Spyder F3 currently in the front row Young enough to play in the dirt as a retired farmer. contact me at rickeieio1@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Dreamer Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, trimster said: Looking up block n tackle ratios. ... Winch to load (direct), and winch to pully on load back to winch support is 1:1. Maybe I've misread the drawings/tutorials. Yep you misread. Direct from winch to car is 1:1, from winch to car around pulley and back is 2:1. We do the 2:1 using a harbor freight 2500# winch and we use 16' ramps. I do drive the car up onto the ramps and then hook up the cable. I use the single tow hook as my winch is in line with it. I got my pulley from Tractor Supply as they had a 8000# one. I have a video on my Facebook group showing it being winched up. Edited August 19, 2021 by Star Dreamer Quote 2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch 2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you! Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/ for much more info on HDT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr. cob Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 Howdy Robert, I use 12 ramps, my bed when the air is dropped it 45 inches from ground level. I use a Harbor Freight, 3,500 pound winch, at first I did the double line pulls, to slow, didn't need it and keeping the cable from snarling when winding in was a problem. I cut the cable from 50 feet to 25 and now use just a single line to pull the Smart Car onto the deck with no problem as far as winching power and the cable winds in easily with no snarling as there is plenty of room on the drum. Works for me. Dave Quote 2001 Peterbilt, 379, Known As "Semi-Sane II", towing a 2014 Voltage 3818, 45 foot long toy hauler crammed full of motorcycles of all types. Visit my photo web site where you will find thousands of photos of my motorcycle wanderings and other aspects of my life, click this link. http://mr-cob.smugmug.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 32 minutes ago, Star Dreamer said: Yep you misread. Direct from winch to car is 1:1, from winch to car around pulley and back is 2:1. We do the 2:1 using a harbor freight 2500# winch and we use 16' ramps. I do drive the car up onto the ramps and then hook up the cable. I use the single tow hook as my winch is in line with it. I got my pulley from Tractor Supply as they had a 8000# one. I have a video on my Facebook group showing it being winched up. Not doubting your 1:1 with a snatch block. But online sites about this stuff shows the following: If load N=100 The rope to the block 'sees' N=100 The rope returning to the tie-off point also sees N=100. That's 1:1 in my mind. Again. Not a mechanical lever wizard here. Just trying to figure it out. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hone eagle Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 the bully/block sees 100 the winch sees 50 and the dead end sees 50, if you are using twice as much line........ (we are ignoring friction). you know if you add enough tackle/ purchase you can end up with no advantage ,it all is lost to friction in the rope and pull sheaves. Quote 2005 volvo 670 freedomline singledNewmar Torrey Pine 34rskswoot woot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hone eagle Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 pully damn auto correct Quote 2005 volvo 670 freedomline singledNewmar Torrey Pine 34rskswoot woot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) ...... Edited August 20, 2021 by noteven Quote "Are we there yet?" asked no motorcycle rider, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 The other question...can the Smart hitch handle it's own weight? Hook to the hitch and pull it up on the bed. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrknrvr Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 Pull Smart onto ramps till tread of rear tire touches them. Then winch the rest of the way up. Just saying, Vern in a T-shirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve from SoCal Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 When you pull a rolling load the sliding force is lower than dead weight. The siding force of a 2000 car on a 30 degree inclined plane is about 1700 pounds. Steve Quote 2005 Peterbilt 387-112 Baby Cat 9 speed U-shift 1996/2016 remod Teton Royal Atlanta 1996 Kentucky 48 single drop stacker garage project Pulls like a train, sounds like a plane....faster than a Cheetah sniffin cocaine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculptor Posted August 20, 2021 Report Share Posted August 20, 2021 14 hours ago, trimster said: The other question...can the Smart hitch handle it's own weight? Hook to the hitch and pull it up on the bed. I thought I remembered other discussion about pulley/snatch block arrangements vs. cable length. I searched but only turned up this post from Rick about the hitch, which may or may not help. As usual for me, it’s only slightly related. 🙂 https://www.rvnetwork.com/topic/135597-winch-capacity/ Quote Kevin and June 2013 Volvo VNL 730 D13 Eco-Torque @ 425 Ratio 2.47 2014 DRV 36TKSB3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Dreamer Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 On 8/19/2021 at 6:06 PM, trimster said: Not doubting your 1:1 with a snatch block. But online sites about this stuff shows the following: If load N=100 The rope to the block 'sees' N=100 The rope returning to the tie-off point also sees N=100. That's 1:1 in my mind. Again. Not a mechanical lever wizard here. Just trying to figure it out. This site might help explain it better. Hone Eagle is correct that by using the pulley, the winch only sees half the load, the other half of the load is handle by the winch hook and the spot you hook it to on your truck. The vehicle will also go up at half the speed. I used this type of stuff almost everyday in my work as an engineer for an elevator company to determine what size our equipment needed to be. https://www.etrailer.com/faq-electric-winch.aspx Quote 2005 Freightliner Century S/T, Singled, Air ride ET Jr. hitch 2019 46'+ Dune Sport Man Cave custom 5th wheel toy hauler Owner of the 1978 Custom Van "Star Dreamer" which might be seen at a local car show near you! Check out http://www.hhrvresource.com/ for much more info on HDT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted August 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 5 hours ago, Star Dreamer said: This site might help explain it better. Hone Eagle is correct that by using the pulley, the winch only sees half the load, the other half of the load is handle by the winch hook and the spot you hook it to on your truck. The vehicle will also go up at half the speed. I used this type of stuff almost everyday in my work as an engineer for an elevator company to determine what size our equipment needed to be. https://www.etrailer.com/faq-electric-winch.aspx Thanks. Helpful. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimster Posted September 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 Finished fabricating the winch snatch block mount bar on the front of the smart. Came out nice I think. The bar mounts to the tow bar mounts the previous owner put on the car. One of the reasons we bought this one. Saved us a bit of money and a ton of time installing it. I'll be putting it to the test tonight when I pull the car up on the bed so I can mark were the wheel chalks will mount. Fortunately, the CanAm and the smart have the same width for 2 tires, so I just need to align and fabricate the mount locations for the Smarts other 2 tires. Oh, following the Dr Who theme where the truck is the 'Tartus', the Smart is the doctors trusty companion 'K-9'. Ya, a bit geeky... but what's a guy to do. Quote Robert & Lisa '14 Keystone Fuzion 315 38' 5er 2015 Volvo VNL 670, D13, iShift 'The Tartis' (ours) 2013 Smart Fortwo Passion 'K-9' 2011 CanAm Spyder RT Limited (Ours) We are both USAF vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike5511 Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) I have 4500 lb winch. I ended up using a snatch block to slow it down. Works much better. My winch is on a bar similar to yours attached to the bumper. Just opposite of most. Nice work by the way! Edited September 5, 2021 by mike5511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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