Microsoft: Actually, Windows 11 Won't Arrive Until 2022 for Existing Windows 10 PCs

[RV_]

"To get Windows 11 before year's end, it seems you'll need to buy a new PC, according to the tweets from the official Windows account

The launch date for Windows 11 is starting to get confusing. 

Last Thursday, Microsoft introduced the next-generation OS, and told the public it’ll arrive for existing Windows 10 PCs as a free upgrade “this holiday.” 

But a day later, the company’s official Twitter account for Windows began telling individual users the wait will actually be longer. “The rollout of the upgrade to Windows 10 devices already in use today will begin in 2022 through the first half of that year,” the tweets say. 

The tweets also suggest that to get Windows 11 before year’s end, you’ll have to buy a new PC loaded with the OS once they go on sale during this holiday season. 

Microsoft’s public relations team tells us they’re aware of the tweets from the official Windows Twitter account. But so far, the company hasn’t commented on the discrepancy. 

The disparity is glaring since Microsoft’s chief product officer, Panos Panay, penned a blog post that specifically says: “The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and continuing into 2022.”

But don’t expect every Windows 10 PC to be eligible for the upgrade. The other catch with Windows 11 has been the higher system requirements. According to Microsoft, the OS won’t support AMD and Intel processors launched before late 2017, disqualifying a four-year-old PC from Windows 11. But whether this CPU requirement is a strict cut-off remains unclear.

The other requirement is the need for a security technology called TPM, which isn’t always activated by default. To do so, you’ll need to dig into your PC’s BIOS settings. 

Overall, Microsoft’s messaging around Windows 11's requirements and launch dates has been messy. In the meantime, the company is preparing to release the first preview builds for Windows 11 this week to the Windows Insiders Program. That means Windows 10 users can still get early access to the betas for the new OS, despite the system requirement and launch date limitations."

Source:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-actually-windows-11-wont-arrive-until-2022-for-existing-windows

Well Microsoft, here's another fine mess you've gotten us into!

Edited June 28, 2021 by RV_

[RV_]

Finally, Ed Bott my favorite Tech writer clears it up, or tries:

"Will your PC run Windows 11? Even Microsoft can't say for sure

Does your PC have the right hardware to run Microsoft's next Windows version? The answer depends on where you look. And don't count on the compatibility checker for much help.

une 25, 2:15 PM Pacific: This post has been updated multiple times since its initial publication to reflect Microsoft's scrambling to clean up the mess they made.

You might think it's a simple, straightforward task to find out whether your current PC will run Windows 11. You also might think that if you went to Microsoft.com and paid nearly $5000 for a top-of-the-line Surface PC today, you'd be assured of being able to upgrade to Windows 11 in a few months, when it's ready for general release.

Think again. Microsoft can't quite get its upgrade story straight. And the clash between the company's engineering decisions and its marketing plan is about to cause screams of outrage from customers who will discover that their new or nearly new hardware just isn't good enough, in Microsoft's eyes.

For starters, two pieces of core documentation disagree with one another. The official Windows 11 System Requirements page has one set of specs, while the Compatibility for Windows 11 documentation that the Windows engineering team prepared for Microsoft partners as part of the Compatibility Cookbook for Windows tells (update: well, told)  a different story. And in both cases the details are incomplete.

To cap things off, the official compatibility checker (included in the new PC Health Check app) that Microsoft released to its most eager fans on the day of the Big Reveal delivered its results without details. If the compatibility checker says your PC will run Windows 11, you're good to go. But when those eager would-be upgraders ran the compatibility check and got results like the one shown below on a system that appeared to meet every specification with ease? Ugh.

 

Update: After this article was published, Microsoft released a new version of the PC Health Check app, without documenting the fact that the tool had been revised. The new version includes a few extra words in the dialog box that explains the results. On my test PC, the new wording reads "This PC can't run Windows 11. This processor isn't supported for Windows 11."

That, of course, was in conflict with the official documentation at Microsoft Docs, which said that the older CPU would be supported, but upgrading was not advised. And then someone decided to edit the documentation. Hoo boy. Read on.

 

The basic hurdles are easy enough to clear. You need a 64-bit Intel or AMD processor running at a speed of at least 1 GHz with 2 or more cores, or, on Arm-based PCs, a compatible System on a Chip (SoC). The biggest change from Windows 10 specs is that 32-bit (x86) CPUs are no longer supported. You also need at least 4 GB of RAM and 64 GB of storage. Most PCs built in the last 10 years will meet those specs.

The device also can't be running in S Mode.

The two biggest stumbling blocks for PCs involve support for an essential security feature called a Trusted Platform Module, or TPM, and support for a minimum CPU generation.

TPM support

The system requirements page says you'll need a TPM version 2.0 to run Windows 11. The Compatibility Cookbook says you'll need a TPM version of 1.2 or greater. Specifically, the TPM 1.2 requirement (with a Secure Boot capable PC) is part of a so-called Hard Floor, while the TPM 2.0 spec is part of the Soft Floor.

According to the docs, "Devices that do not meet the hard floor cannot be upgraded to Windows 11, and devices that meet the soft floor will receive a notification that upgrade is not advised."

Update: And now Microsoft has revised the Compatibility Cookbook page, removing all references to the Soft Floor and Hard Floor and adding a note that says TPM 2.0 support and a compatible CPU are required.

That's not a trivial detail, because millions of older PCs are equipped with TPM 1.2 in hardware and can't be upgraded.

To make things even more confusing, the compatibility checker might tell you your PC can't be upgraded to Windows 11 if the device has a TPM but that feature is disabled in firmware.

You can check for the presence of a TPM by looking in Device Manager (Devmgmt.msc) under the Security Devices heading, as shown here.

Use Device Manager to check the TPM version

You can also run the TPM Management snap-in (Tpm.msc). That tool will tell you the name of the TPM manufacturer as well as the version information. Be sure to close the snap-in without making any changes.

If you're certain your PC has a TPM but you don't see it listed in Device Manager, you'll need to go into firmware settings and enable it. On a UEFI-based Windows 10 PC, the easiest way to do that is to follow these steps:

1. Go to Settings > Update & Security > Recovery.
2. Under the Advanced Startup heading, click Restart Now.
3. After restarting, click Troubleshoot > Advanced Options > UEFI Firmware Settings.

Look for a setting labeled TPM or PTT (short for Intel Platform Trust Technology) or, on AMD systems, fTPM (short for Firmware Trusted Platform Module). You might need the PC's manual to find the exact setting. And while you're in the firmware setting, make sure Secure Boot is enabled.

That should resolve any TPM issues.

CPU Generation

If the compatibility checker still insists that you can't run Windows 11, and you've confirmed that the TPM isn't the sticking point, the problem might be a CPU that Windows 11 considers too old.

Yes, there's also a Soft Floor requirement for CPU. Frustratingly, the documentation simply says this is defined by "CPU Generation," without going into any additional details.

Update: Here, too, Microsoft has edited the pages at its Microsoft Docs site (normally the authoritative page for documentation) and removed all references to CPU Generation and Hard Floors and Soft Floors. What a mess.

It appears that any device running on an Intel 7th Generation (Skylake) CPU or earlier will also trigger that compatibility check. Even some 8th Generation Intel processors (code-named Kaby Lake) are ineligible. That was the case on a Dell desktop PC I checked. Frustratingly, the PC Health Check app doesn't appear to generate any log files that would make the sleuthing easier.

Instead, I turned to an open source tool called Win11SysCheck, which is available on GitHub as source code and a precompiled binary. (The executable download is here. You might get a SmartScreen error if you try to download this tool and run it, because Windows flags it, for now at least, as "not commonly downloaded.")

That tool confirmed that the i7-6700 CPU on my desktop PC was the culprit.

 

This open source tool provides more details than the official compatibility checker

That's a 2015-era CPU, and my PC is about five years old. The good news is that Windows 11 should run on it, although the upgrade is not recommended. Update: Or it won't. Who knows?

Since I ran that script, a second open-source compatibility checker, WhyNotWin11, has also appeared on GitHub. It, too, sets off compatibility alarms and is blocked by SmartScreen, but if you bypass those checks you get a nice graphical display that displays the pass/fail status for each item in the list of Windows 11 system requirements. 

Of course, not all PCs with that CPU generation are old. Microsoft's most expensive PC, the Surface Studio 2, is available for sale today starting from $3,499.99 and can be configured to cost $4,799.99. And what CPU is in that brand-new PC if you pay that lofty price tag today?

An i7-7820HQ, that's what. No, it's not on the list of compatible CPUs, which means if you go online today and pay Microsoft nearly five grand for their most expensive Surface PC, they won't allow you to upgrade to Windows 11. You're in the same boat if you have a Surface Pro 5 (aka Surface Pro 2017), which was the top of the Surface Pro line until its successor was released in October 2018, less than three years ago.

The Microsoft engineering document that contains the full list of compatible CPUs was prepared for hardware manufacturers; it includes a full list of supported Windows 11 CPUs from AMD, Intel, and Qualcomm. Of course, those specs should only apply to PC makers building new PCs for sale to the public, but apparently that list now constitutes the "hard floor" that Windows 11 will use for upgraders as well.

Hopefully, this will all be sorted out by the time Windows 11 is ready for its first general release, but don't count on it."

More in the source article with related hot link here:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/will-your-pc-run-windows-11-even-microsoft-cant-say-for-sure/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&bhid=&mid=13417802&cid=2180787277&eh=

[RV_]

When my Surface Go2 failed the scan for compatibility I was pretty sure this is a botched rush job of an announcement. As I said in an earlier post I expect Microsoft to back up and regroup rather than piss off the world and its Surface customers.

Ed Bott starts clearing it up:

Windows 11: Microsoft apologizes for compatibility confusion, hints at changes

Microsoft published a mea culpa today for its communication snafu in last week's Windows 11 launch. The company said it's pulling its flawed compatibility checker and reviewing compatibility requirements, leaving open the possibility of expanding the list of supported CPUs.

In an unsigned blog post, Microsoft today apologized for creating confusion over the minimum system requirements for Windows 11 in its launch event last week and pledged to "learn and adjust," based on customer feedback. The post also offered a much-needed explanation for the two most controversial items on the list: the requirement for a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 2.0, and a CPU compatibility list that cuts off most pre-2018 CPUs.

The biggest driver for those requirements is security:

Windows 11 raises the bar for security by requiring hardware that can enable protections like Windows Hello, Device Encryption, virtualization-based security (VBS), hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI) and Secure Boot. The combination of these features has been shown to reduce malware by 60% on tested devices. To meet the principle, all Windows 11 supported CPUs have an embedded TPM, support secure boot, and support VBS and specific VBS capabilities.

[...]

Using the principles above, we are confident that devices running on Intel 8th generation processors and AMD Zen 2 as well as Qualcomm 7 and 8 Series will meet our principles around security and reliability and minimum system requirements for Windows 11.

According to Microsoft, its "OEM and silicon partners ... are achieving a 99.8% crash free experience" on Windows 11. With today's first Insider Preview release, which will install and run on some of those unsupported hardware configurations, the company says it will "test to identify devices running on Intel 7th generation and AMD Zen 1 that may meet our principles."

Microsoft is also pulling its PC Health Check app, acknowledging this it was "not fully prepared to share the level of detail or accuracy you expected from us on why a Windows 10 PC doesn't meet upgrade requirements." The app will reappear before the projected general availability of Windows 11 later this year. (That release date is likely to be in October.)"

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-microsoft-apologizes-for-compatibility-confusion-hints-at-changes/?ftag=CAD2e14604

[TXiceman]

I have never been one to jump on a new release of an operating system.  Wait until at least Service Release ONE to get some of the bugs out.

Ken

[RV_]

I agree Ken. I do install ASAP on one of my backup/test-bed systems all Windows 10. Then I can see if I like it.

However I do Windows updates on all my machines as soon as available manually usually 12 noon local time second Tuesday.

Today, monthly updates add a little at a time so until Windows 12 no service packs I would think. I saw no Service packs for the last six or seven years of Windows 10. But who knows at the moment? Not Microsoft.

 

 

[DanZemke]

I have a laptop (Thinkpad T470) that meets all of the requirements (including TPM 2), but it's a Kaby Lake processor, so doesn't appear that it will be supported.  I also have a slightly newer tower system that meets all the Windows 11 published requirements, and it has a Coffee Lake processor.  It appears that it will be supported.  But there doesn't appear to be any significant difference between Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake processors, other than the number of cores.  I also have two older mini-PCs running Windows 10 that have Skylake CPUs.

The CPU generation requirements don't have anything to do with technology requirements.  This appears to be all about marketing.

Since Windows upgrades for existing systems have become free, Microsoft's OS profit motivation is tied to new systems, which do provide revenue to MS.  The new systems are ideally from new users, hence the focus on an easier to use interface.  But many, probably most, existing Windows users, won't find much benefit from an "easier to use", but different, user interface.  For most of them, it will be more of a hassle than a benefit.  But MS doesn't want to support two operating systems.  So what do they do?  They use arbitrary technical details to encourage the purchase of new systems, and reduce their expense for supporting Windows 10.

There's nothing about the Windows 11 user interface changes that I'm lusting for.  So I won't be migrating to Windows 11 in the near future.  More importantly, IMO, neither will most corporations that have standardized on Windows for their employees.

[hatrack]

Installed Windows 11 this morning on my dual boot system that runs Windows Preview on a separate partition. Don't really care for the new layout of the Start Menu or the way the Taskbar is setup now.

 

Ken....

[RV_]

Dan I'm with you. So far only my Surface Pro 7 and Dell 7790 Touchscreen AIO pass. So I'll be using 10 until 2025 too on half my remaining systems.

I believe they will be modifying code to include a lot more like My Surface Go2.

I have an awesome old Dell 2720 AIO I bought new in 2015 with Quad HD touch screen and it blows away my new 10th gen I5 27" Dell AIO with 1TB SSD and 24GB DDR4 RAM, FHD that is terrible. I am passing it to my wife who will love it. She has FHD now. But my 2720 touch 27" QHD is such a pleasing resolution and picture. I upgraded it to max RAM 16GB for the i74770S 3.10GHz quad core 1TB WD SSD and 32GB Mini card SSD. It runs like a scalded cat!

So I will be using Windows 10 on mine and 11 on my wife's new 27 Dell AIO. All the other systems are 4 or five years old so most will be sold this year.

I am getting down to:

Mine: One LTE Surface Go 2 m3/8GB/128GB with LTE activated with my new provider US Mobile. (not compatible with 11)

One Surface Pro 7 i7/16GB/256GB/optical drive/thunderbolt connector and HDMI in and out ports as well as 6 USB 3.0 which I will update to 11.

My Dell 2720 QHD touch AIO i7/16GB/1TB SSD and 32GB SSD.

Lynn's: Dell 7790 Touchscreen AIO 10th gen i5 24GB RAM, 256GB drive and a 1TB WD SSD storage drive and HDMI in out ports.

My backup is a self built HP G1 micro PC with 16 GB RAM and a 128GB Intel SSD. I had to put on a USB WiFi adapter and a USB Bluetooth adapter. It uses a quad core Acer 27" monitor.

Our Home theater PC is a Beelink T34 micro computer Running Windows 10 Pro with the Intel Celeron N3350 processor/8GB RAM/256GB SSD and a Logitech K400+ keyboard with built in touchpad.

I am selling:

The Surface Go first gen 10" tablet with the top line that year processor and 8GB/128GB

HP 6305 Pro mini tower Quad core AMD A8 5500B 3.2 GHz - 12 GB RAM - 256GB ADATA SSD and a SSHD Hybrid 1TB Seagate drive for storage and a DVD multi drive. This one is similar. It screams. I put a $3.99 Bluetooth USB adapter and an AC1300 USB wifi dongle. I added a drive hot swap bay like this to it:  https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-5-25in-Trayless-Mobile-3-5in/dp/B000KS8S9W/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=front+computer+locking+internal+drive+bay&qid=1615491811&s=electronics&sr=1-3

Also selling a 24" great Monitor that does portrait and landscape views and has DP, HDMI, VGA inputs. hookups, and an old 17" Dell monitor.

As well all my spare wireless keyboards and docks all current not antiques.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by RV_

[DanZemke]

Quote

I believe they will be modifying code to include a lot more like My Surface Go2.

I agree with you. If MS reconsiders, and decides to allow Kaby Lake processors, I'll probably install Windows 11 on both of my frequently used systems.

MS knows that significant changes to their user interface is a double edged sword.  The new version will probably be more attractive to those who haven't used Windows before. But for most existing Windows users, it's likely to be disruptive.

IMO, when it becomes clear, that the adoption rate for Windows 11, is well below Microsoft's internal plan, our orphan systems will become worthy for Windows 11 🙂

[RV_]

2 hours ago, DanZemke said:

I agree with you. If MS reconsiders, and decides to allow Kaby Lake processors, I'll probably install Windows 11 on both of my frequently used systems.

IMO, when it becomes clear, that the adoption rate for Windows 11, is well below Microsoft's internal plan, our orphan systems will become worthy for Windows 11 🙂

Same here on the opinion and Windows 11 on my qualified two systems.

[RV_]

Here is how to bypass the Windows 11 limitations on older units. I may try this on on e of my systems I need to sell after I make a full system image to recover it if crashed. If it gets bricked I'm out little.

But for the brave and foolish like me here is the skinny:

How to bypass Windows 11 limits and install on almost any old PC

Kids, don't try this at home!

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-bypass-windows-11-limits-and-install-on-almost-any-old-pc/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&bhid=&mid=13429167&cid=2180787277&eh=

[irvinborder]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:28 PM, RV_ said:

How to bypass Windows 11 limits and install on almost any old PC

The following steps are necessary to remove requirements error  "This PC can't run Windows 11" when attempting to install Windows 11

you can bypass the CPU / TPM Check by adding DWORD to registry in the below mentioned path.

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\MoSetup

Add DWORD with the value name as AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU and Value data as 1.

Download the Windows 11 iso from official website and mount in Virtual Drive using PowerISO or similar application.

Then RUN the windows 11 setup from the virtual Drive and follow the process. you are good to go with windows 11

*Make sure the secure Boot is enabled in BIOS.

[RV_]

Welcome to the forums irvinborder!

Do you have a source link for that?

[TXiceman]

I received a pop-up note about upgrading to Win 11 a few months back.  I decided to wait a bit and see what the feelings were on the internet.  I got another pop-up note on the upgrade and a site to check if my laptop was compatible with Win 11.   Ran the check and said I was good to go so I made the upgrade and so far, no issues at all.

Ken

[RV_]

Ken,

I agree. I've been gone because I bought the new Surface pro 8 bundle with typecover and pen, i7/16GB/256GB and of course it's Windows 11. It has no SD card slot nor a USB A port, just two USB C Thunderbolt ports, the Surface charging magnetic slot, and the headphone jack. Costco gives 90 days to get a refund and I've had it a week.

I agree, Windows 11 is not hard, and looming good now that they're fixing the most egregious errors and features.

Excerpt:

"When you get to the Windows desktop, I recommend taking a few minutes to do these six things before you go any further.L

https://www.zdnet.com/article/six-things-you-should-do-right-away-with-your-new-windows-11-pc/?bhid={%24external_id}&cid={%24contact_id}&eh={%24CF_emailHash}&ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&mid={%24MESSAGE_ID}&utm_source=pocket_mylist