Stuck in Prineville, Or. -D13 in derate

[trimster]

After 3 parked regens, truck is de-rated. Ideas needed. Here's what I have done so far:

- 1 regen .

- drained and replaced DEF, thinking it was bad.

- ran another regen. No change.

-ran a third regen. No change in soot level.  Truck in derate.

Plan is to pull & clean the 7th injector, then run regen again.

 

There is a local mobile repair that comes recommended.  Have not talked with them about their ability to force regen. If my plan doesn't get it back, mobile service is next. Bend, Oregon has a large truck service. That's 35 miles (possible expense tow).

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions are really needed right now.

TIA

[rpsinc]

Following.

[Darryl&Rita]

When you bought it, did you get a printout of the emisions system status? Without that, or personal history, we're shooting in the dark. Can you get a mobile guy WITH A LAPTOP? You need some insight into the condition of the exhaust system.

[trimster]

Yes. I had a full computer dump. There were faults pointing to the DEF filter sensors. Replaced those & cleaned injector 7. Had volvo clear the system and push a regen. 

Not sure on the mobile guy's computer tools. Will be checking soon.

[trimster]

Just went thru dash faults. 

Engine ecu = sa16 dtc p103C00

Aftertreatment = none

Vehicle ECU = none

Regen started now, after injector cleaning. It was kinda dirty.

[trimster]

Regen done.  Soot level 2. Still in derate. Running regen again. 

8 miles away in Redmond there's a TEC volvo dlr. I'm going to pull the connection off the trans speed sensor so I can move above 5mph. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by trimster

[usbusin]

That is 2%, correct?  You should be good to go!  Did you get it done yourself or did you have to call the mobile mechanic?

Glad the problem is solved.

We were on the road through Prineville earlier this week.  Love eastern Oregon.

[trimster]

Just now, usbusin said:

That is 2%, correct?  You should be good to go!  Did you get it done yourself or did you have to call the mobile mechanic?

Glad the problem is solved.

We were on the road through Prineville earlier this week.  Love eastern Oregon.

Ya, not solved. Still stuck in derate.

[usbusin]

That is a real bummer.  At 2% the soot level is good, correct.  Is the problem that it is stuck in de-rate?  What is the plan now?

[trimster]

It's '2 over normal ', not 2%. 

I'm going too pull the speed sensor to the trans. so I can drive over 5mph and take it to TEC volvo on Redmond. They'll run a diagnostic. 

[Morelli]

Was gonna say cleaning the 7th injector is not needed, but already done.  Doing a regen is typically not enough unless you have the PTT and watch the diff pressure sensor and its charting.  The error code is pointing to the SCR unit as fault.  If you have the PTT, you do a DPF regen first and look at diff pressure and test the sensors, if all looks good, do the SCR regen and test its sensors.  After that if the SCR is really bad, it will show up.  SCR replacement is very expensive !!  Make sure its tested correctly.

[Morelli]

BTW, when you have your truck at the TEC dealer, make sure to have your software updated !  Lots of fixes especially for all the sensors on the emissions and corrections for how the ECU deals with them.  After TEC is done with your truck, stay in the area for at least 1 day and drive the truck, other issues will show up 18 to 24 hours later if the job was not done right.  Speaking from lotsa experience as a trucking business with Volvo trucks.

[trimster]

Here's the fault dump from TEC.

Good chat with the head of service while he was pulling the computer information. Seems that the regens worked. Soot level is 13%. Really good. The big problem seems to be in the data links between the NOX, DEF, and main computer.

Their solution is to bring it in on Monday and have the tech start troubleshooting the that sub-wiring harness.

I've pulled the speed sensor plug and the ACM fuse so I can drive it, manually shifting. It is really weird and stressful when you stop and go. The trans has to think for 5 to 10 seconds about a gear and clutching and all that stuff. 1500 rpm limit. 12 gear is 65 mph or so. Power is way down. But we can move about.

Now, my plan is to spend the weekend with a can of electrical contact cleaner, pull all the connections I can find on the DEF tank, main filter connections, etc. and clean them, and reseat the plugs. My thought is that a broken wire is not likely... but a corroded contact is.

SCR? what is this unit/box/thingy?

Another issue is parts. They are 2 months out on NOX sensors and other system things. Volvo can't keep up. But that is the whole supply chain for about everything. The NOX sensors I replaced are aftermarket with good reviews. They've been in there since July of last year. 

We have this campsite until the 25th, then we're suppose to be in Corvallis for 2 weeks. Guess we have time to make some changes but finding a landing spot over the 4th has been hard. Hence the long stay in Corvallis.

In a word... this all sucks. But with money and time, it gets worked out. 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by trimster

[Sculptor]

Sorry to read all this.  It sounds like you are making progress, that’s good.  Wish I understood it all.  
I bought NOX sensors on eBay a few years ago, and they haven’t given me any trouble so they were good quality.  I know everything has changed since last year, but maybe?

[trimster]

11 minutes ago, Sculptor said:

Sorry to read all this.  It sounds like you are making progress, that’s good.  Wish I understood it all.  
I bought NOX sensors on eBay a few years ago, and they haven’t given me any trouble so they were good quality.  I know everything has changed since last year, but maybe?

I don't think it's the NOX sensors. The main faults revolve around "abnormal data rates", Lower than expected voltages, so wiring/connections.  After I ran the re-gen several times, the Aftertreatment soot level was seemingly stuck on 2. The tech cleared codes and bumped the aftertreatment software with his computer and the soot level reading corrected itself to 13% on the computer and the dash shows a corresponding reading.

The tech explained the data and wiring issues as " the system is trying to communicate but can't so it's giving up...throwing faults...shutting down".

I did run across an older (2018) truckers forum thread on the problems I have been having. Some good side information from a kinda Volvo guru brought up some interesting thoughts. One was the amount of bio-diesel in our fuel. His conjecture is that bio-diesel runs cooler (which it does) and that can cause the DEF/Aftertreatment system to not achieve the heat it needs to do its thing. "5-10% bio is okay. Some pumps are now saying up to 20% which is to much."

His other finding (he did testing) was that certified DEF is kinda all over the place for water to urea mix. 17 out of 20 bulk pumps read way more water than allowed. 1 out of 12 boxes (he said 'lesser brands') tested to much water.

The Volvo systems are way to sensitive me thinks, to this kinda stuff. Last two fill-ups were Costco diesel. I can't remember what the pump said for potential bio-diesel. I don't use bulk DEF at the pumps. But the last 4 boxes were Tech brand from Wally world. I pumped that out and now have Blu-Def.

Not saying these 2 things caused the issue, as it appears to be sensor/electrical connection related from the computer dump. But maybe... perfect storm.

The bugger now is that the Aftertreatment/regen problem is taken care of and the truck is still in de-rate. Communication/data rate problems with the ECU-ECC.

Am I on or off the mark here? Should I pull connectors and spray with cleaner and reseat in hopes of solving a bad connection? I have a listing of the software versions installed in the truck for all systems. Is there a place on the web where I can find what the latest versions should be/are?

Thanks all for the support. This is a real wrinkle in a long awaited get-away.

[Darryl&Rita]

1 hour ago, trimster said:

Am I on or off the mark here? Should I pull connectors and spray with cleaner and reseat in hopes of solving a bad connection?

It's a bear to diagnose problems with wiring, especially intermittent ones. I would suggest holding off, until you can get the laptop connected. This will help narrow the issue down to one connector/wiring location. My inner OCD would have me crawling all over, doing exactly what you're proposing. The problem with this approach is you'll never be 100% certain that you've actually corrected the problem, and if it comes back (it will) you have to do all this all over again.

[trimster]

The laptop pointed to the DEF tank connections and ecc-ecu. 

With the codes that could be cleared, the computer connect on Monday will show any new ones and/or support the existing faults.

Why it's still in derate is puzzling. 

[Darryl&Rita]

15 minutes ago, trimster said:

The laptop pointed to the DEF tank connections and ecc-ecu. 

With the codes that could be cleared, the computer connect on Monday will show any new ones and/or support the existing faults.

Why it's still in derate is puzzling. 

What I'm saying is if you go through 10-15 connections, the faults clear on Monday, which connection was it? Will it happen again? It will. Slow down, test the system after every connector cleaning, and visual inspection of the wiring bundles.

 

It's still in de-rate because the ECM won't release it until the communication is restored.

[Sculptor]

Repeating I don’t understand much of the above, but your logic seems excellent, and I think you might be onto something with your connector theory.  
Probably not related, but I have also read of the main battery shutoff switch corroding and causing hard-to-trace errors. 

[lappir]

This is making me think I will keep my 2001 for as long as it will run. 

On a side note with a question. How often do you start the truck, drive a few miles, turn it off and do that again? How often do you do that? I'm thinking this is the first real trip with the truck pulling, am I close on that thought? 

The first year I had my truck I would take it for a drive every couple weeks, mostly because I didn't park it on site with my trailer and couldn't keep it plugged in. Found I couldn't really "Warm" the truck up much with all those drives and I had a near empty truck by the time my stay was over. I usually didn't purchase fuel in South Florida and waited until I was on the interstate highway system where I'm more likely to get fresh fuel. 

I now start my truck when I am ready to hook up, and I don't turn it off until I will be somewhere for over an hour. I usually have a 4 to 6 hour trip at least and sometimes 2 to 3 times that. I no longer drive unless it's going to be used or needs service. 

Good luck with figuring it all out and you can get back to enjoying the trip. 

 

Rod

 

[trimster]

47 minutes ago, lappir said:

This is making me think I will keep my 2001 for as long as it will run. 

On a side note with a question. How often do you start the truck, drive a few miles, turn it off and do that again? How often do you do that? I'm thinking this is the first real trip with the truck pulling, am I close on that thought? 

The first year I had my truck I would take it for a drive every couple weeks, mostly because I didn't park it on site with my trailer and couldn't keep it plugged in. Found I couldn't really "Warm" the truck up much with all those drives and I had a near empty truck by the time my stay was over. I usually didn't purchase fuel in South Florida and waited until I was on the interstate highway system where I'm more likely to get fresh fuel. 

I now start my truck when I am ready to hook up, and I don't turn it off until I will be somewhere for over an hour. I usually have a 4 to 6 hour trip at least and sometimes 2 to 3 times that. I no longer drive unless it's going to be used or needs service. 

Good luck with figuring it all out and you can get back to enjoying the trip. 

 

Rod

 

So, its been on several trips pulling in the last year. It does sit a lot. Because of the bed-build I have had a fair amount of start, move the truck in and out of the driveway to a new position, then stop. Then I do take it for a jaunt (to get metal/supplies) where it gets a good hour or more run on the freeway and around town. But it sits, like yours, until you need it.

That's why I found it odd that the soot level was less than 1/2 the gauge when I left and 2 days of freeway flying, it would request a park regen resulting in 120 min. until de-rate. I was 45 from the campground so that was a good thing to have the extra time. But subsequent regens didn't change the soot meter... but in reality, it did work. The ECM just was not convinced. 

We did roll out the CanAm Spyder this morning, made a run for few hours up the canyon from here, did some shopping and hit a huge gem and rock show right over the fence from the RV park. Supposedly one of the best shows in the west. It was pretty awesome.

Bob

 

[GlennWest]

You have a beautiful rig and I am envious until I hear these horror stories. Sorry for your problems though.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

Another area to look at is start at the batteries and start cleaning all the connections.  A bad ground connection to the frame can cause the low voltage in other areas.

[trimster]

2 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

Another area to look at is start at the batteries and start cleaning all the connections.  A bad ground connection to the frame can cause the low voltage in other areas.

Seems one of the trigger points is that pesky little red wire off the + side of the batteries. It goes through a fuse link then on to the computers. Mine looks great. But worth cleaning. New batteries last July. I can surely do a bit of a clean on those connection when it cools off this evening. Easy 'nuff.

[trimster]

NOTE to all in this position. To defeat the Derate 5mph limit here's what you do.

- crawl under the truck and on the passengers side of the trans tail-shaft, right before the first U-joint is a sensor sticking out. This is the speed sensor. It has a 1/2 turn collar to release it. DO NOT pull on the wires. Just unscrew 1/2 turn and pull the connector out.

- Now, go to the fuse box located under the hood next to the steering shaft, on the firewall. Unplug the 10a fuse for the ECM. Mine is FU11. Put the fuse in one of the empty slots in the top area of the fuse box for safe keeping.

Restart the truck.

Esc out of all the warnings.

You will now be limited to 1500 rpms, about 80% power and you will have to manually shift your auto shift. You CAN push the button twice in succession to skip gears. Be ready for the trans to loose its mind when you stop at a light. 

-Press the down gear button on the shifter and it will take a few seconds to get a gear. Impatient people will honk at you.

You can do 65mph or so in 12th. You don't have engine brake, mph reading. I use my GPS for MPH.

This is how I am getting around.