Can a 2500HD Chevy pull a 5th Wheel?

[Av8r3400]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:25 AM, NDBirdman said:

Per the last 2 comments, I wasn't going to say anything but now I must. 

1st comment, I wish people would just try a pull in HDT.  I wish people would go through real world training to operate a heavy vehicle designed for commercial use first.  These things are not light pick-ups and require a different skill set to operate safely for themselves and all others on the road.  Your years ahead with training.

2nd comment, Not every wants or needs a HDT.  You can now get pick-ups with up to 36k and higher GCWR, are campers/RVs really getting that heavy?  Even living full time in an RV, one that big/heavy?  I could say more but I don't want to offend...

My comments come from being properly trained and a retired driver.  I have seen plenty of properly trained drivers get into bad situations, I can't imagine how much worse it could have been if a rookie/non-experienced operator would have been at the wheel.  I shudder every time I see/hear someone goes to a dealer/private sales and drives off in an HDT, having no training/experience operating a heavy truck.  Everyone should be required to go through a school to be trained before receiving a license to operate an HDT whether for commercial or personal/RV.  I shudder every time I see one going down the road, whether I'm in a car, truck, or truck pulling a camper, I do my best to get away from them.  I know the damage an HDT can/does do, it only takes one moment, one oh-poop moment to ruin a day/life.  Won't be me involved in that mess.

The above IMHO, everyone has their opinion but I can see someone getting upset over my beliefs.

 

What makes me shudder is every time I get passed by some overloaded, hot-rodded, crew cab diesel 2500 towing a 40' 5er going 80+ mph with their hair on fire.  Far more people are killed per year by this scenario than by someone pulling an RV with an HDT.

Just because the owner's manual says it can do a thing, certainly doesn't mean it should.

And yes, 25k+ campers are quite commonplace.  Most are designed so poorly, to keep the pin weight down for 2500/3500 rated cargo capacities, they handle terribly.  A trained driver like yourself would be shocked at the (lack of) balance on a scale ticket from one of these rigs.

I'd rather take my chances with an HDT stopping this rig than a 2500 with 4 big mud tires and a coal rolling tune.  But, hey, at least they have $100k in that fancy pickup.

[Jaydrvr]

3 hours ago, Av8r3400 said:

What makes me shudder is every time I get passed by some overloaded, hot-rodded, crew cab diesel 2500 towing a 40' 5er going 80+ mph with their hair on fire.  Far more people are killed per year by this scenario than by someone pulling an RV with an HDT.

Just because the owner's manual says it can do a thing, certainly doesn't mean it should.

And yes, 25k+ campers are quite commonplace.  Most are designed so poorly, to keep the pin weight down for 2500/3500 rated cargo capacities, they handle terribly.  A trained driver like yourself would be shocked at the (lack of) balance on a scale ticket from one of these rigs.

I'd rather take my chances with an HDT stopping this rig than a 2500 with 4 big mud tires and a coal rolling tune.  But, hey, at least they have $100k in that fancy pickup.

This says it better than I ever could. In thirty years of driving all 48 states, I can't recall seeing any crashes involving an HDT pulling a recreational trailer. Every crash I've seen that comes to mind was a pickup towing a substantial sized trailer/ fiver and I'd have to think they LOOKED to be within the likely tow rating. But nonetheless, there they were, in the median, ditch, or scattered all over the road. The reality is that, for me personally, a pickup truck doesn't give me and the other drivers around me the safety margin I need, when you're getting into the larger, say 15,000# units and up. I understand there are many who don't mind pushing the risk edge, but that's not my way of doing things.  Jay

[NDBirdman]

4 hours ago, Av8r3400 said:

What makes me shudder is every time I get passed by some overloaded, hot-rodded, crew cab diesel 2500 towing a 40' 5er going 80+ mph with their hair on fire.  Far more people are killed per year by this scenario than by someone pulling an RV with an HDT.

Just because the owner's manual says it can do a thing, certainly doesn't mean it should.

And yes, 25k+ campers are quite commonplace.  Most are designed so poorly, to keep the pin weight down for 2500/3500 rated cargo capacities, they handle terribly.  A trained driver like yourself would be shocked at the (lack of) balance on a scale ticket from one of these rigs.

I'd rather take my chances with an HDT stopping this rig than a 2500 with 4 big mud tires and a coal rolling tune.  But, hey, at least they have $100k in that fancy pickup.

Mostly agree with all that.  Yes, an idiot driving a rig like that is scary!  I don't care what the cost of the rig, just makes me think someone is compensating for something if they need to do crap like that to a pick-up.  I once saw a Toyota Tundra with a 5th wheel that would make my dually strain.  There was a true idiot!  Yes, I could buy an HDT for half what my truck cost but my truck does more than haul an RV.  My truck stops my Rv just fine, I learned long ago to haul within my limits and to keep brakes properly adjusted.

Edited August 23, 2021 by NDBirdman

[Jinx & Wayne]

There was no way on earth Jinx is going to get behind the wheel of a HDT that didn't involve kicking and screaming. Convincing her of the need for a dually was tough enough. My solution to increase  the safety margin was to upgrade the RV brakes to electric over hydraulic disc brakes and to also upgrade the wheels, tires and suspension.  Oh yeah, and weigh the rig every year.  It isn't a HDT, but it stops in about 2/3 of the original stopping distance.

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

[orca]

When i was looking to replace my MH with a 5er i knew what toyhauler i wanted so i reserched what truck i needed.  I came across a story that helped me choose a MDT.  The author told of having a heavy trailer and large pickup with an equaly large diesel motor.  At first he was happy how easily his truck pulled the trailer up and down the mountain roads. After all, the mfg stated it would pull almost twice what his trailer weighed! One day after a very long and hard pull up a steep grade he started down the other side.  As the trailer started to push him on the downgrade as he touched the brakes, he realised the trailer brakes were not working!  When he got the rig around some corners and to the bottom of that hill his truck brakes were smoking and almost non existant! Without the assistance of the trailer brakes and even with engine braking the weight of the 5er easily overpowered the brakes on the truck.

The brakes on a MDT/HDT will handle the weight of a heavy 5er without assistance in normal conditions but not so much in emergency/panic stops. A pickup truck towing without assistance is dangerous under any conditions.

As the saying goes; It is better to have more truck than you need...... 

[rickeieio]

While the specs are generally accurate, they are often mis-understood.  In a nut shell, the important number is the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating, or GCVWR.  A lot of people don't consider that passengers, fuel, pets, luggage, coolers, etc. all get subtracted too.  Plus, options on the truck decrease the overall number.  Got a 4wd/crewcab/fancy interior/etc?  Those numbers are likely not considered in the "specifications".  Example: my F150 4x4 supercrew King Ranch is rated for a load capacity of about 1500# as per the door sticker, but in real life, the scales says I'm maxed out with a full gas tank (optional 36 gal) and a passenger.  Tool box, rubber bed mat, spare clothes under the back seat, all add up.

So, as noteven stated, having what you think is 2X truck is usually about right.

As to the HDT debate, I wish we could use a MDT, but in real life, I just can't justify the additional expense.  That said, an HDT isn't for everyone.

[noteven]

Any truck, pickups to Big Trucks, are just plain more relaxing and enjoyable to drive when they are loaded with enough load to settle the suspension and provide a nice balance of traction and reserve power and braking.

The idea of pulling RV sem eye trailer combinations is relaxation and enjoyment even during the rig move isn’t it?

Not doing everything on the edge of maximums…

[griffinmike]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:27 AM, Jaydrvr said:

That may sound simple, but the Chevy towing specs aren't written by real world users, they're written by marketing people. They only care about selling trucks, hnot white knuckles and pucker factors. Jay

The data is determined by engineers, who cares who does the writing? The data is much more accurate than what comes from the tire expert wannabes.

[Star Dreamer]

8 hours ago, griffinmike said:

The data is determined by engineers, who cares who does the writing? The data is much more accurate than what comes from the tire expert wannabes.

Actually in the old days the engineers told the marketing people what to put on the brochures, later the marketing people told the engineers what they wanted the trucks to do and the engineers had to figure out how to make it do that. They use to get creative and you had to read the fine print and see that maybe it was done with 1/8 tank of fuel, flat bed trailer and a light weight driver. Then when you bought the truck, loaded it down with 4 normal people and your ice chest full of beer and a full tank of fuel and hooked it up to your RV that is shaped like a brick wall and wonder how crappy this trucks pulls and stops. I have heard now that at least the manufacturers have to follow a standard when calculating the tow ratings but I have not seen it. I am sure it is still not based on a full height 5th wheel brick wall! 

[rickeieio]

For those of you who've been on this forum long enough, several years ago, in the "I can tow more than you" wars between the pickup manufacturers, Ford played catch up by greatly increasing the tow ratings, just by changing the differential grease to synthetic.  Realistic?  Maybe, maybe not.

As pointed out above, it's a lot more pleasurable to drive a lightly loaded truck than one which is near it's limits.  Been there, done that, ain't going back.

[GlennWest]

I was content towing my DRV with the 3500. It was a little hairing coming out of Colorado on that long decent but we were alright. Got this Teton and all that changed. Had to add air bags just to get suspension springs in normal arch. Way too stiff after that. Got terrible mpg. All is good with the Freightshaker now. Honestly never even considered a 2500 to tow with. They just was not enough truck

Edited September 3, 2021 by GlennWest

[jamtracy]

On 8/24/2021 at 4:10 AM, Jinx & Wayne said:

There was no way on earth Jinx is going to get behind the wheel of a HDT that didn't involve kicking and screaming. Convincing her of the need for a dually was tough enough. My solution to increase  the safety margin was to upgrade the RV brakes to electric over hydraulic disc brakes and to also upgrade the wheels, tires and suspension.  Oh yeah, and weigh the rig every year.  It isn't a HDT, but it stops in about 2/3 of the original stopping distance.

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

LOL this was my scenario with the wife. We went through 2 single rear wheel trucks before I convinced her that we need a dually. Now we are on our second one and hopefully the last one. For awhile anyways. 

[griffinmike]

On 6/16/2021 at 3:39 PM, Cosmo Kramer said:

We are thinking about buying either the Keystone  Cougar 364BHL or the Forrest River Sabre 38DBQ. We planned on trading our 1500 Silverado in on a 2500HD either Diesel or Gas to pull it. 

So read the chevy towing specs.

[Kevins84]

You guys had me scared, I just upgraded from a 37ft TT to a 43ft 5th wheel and they never mentioned that I might be over payload even though Im well under towing capabilities. I checked my door tag on my 2020 2500hd duramax and it says max payload of 3300 lbs which is more then enough. Did they just increase the payload for newer trucks?

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Kevins84 said:

Did they just increase the payload for newer trucks?

While they may have changed it, remember that the payload is not just the weight added by the trailer you are towing but it includes every bit of weight added to the truck, meaning fuel, people, tools, and everything that isn't part of the factory installed truck parts.

[Jaydrvr]

2 hours ago, Kevins84 said:

You guys had me scared, I just upgraded from a 37ft TT to a 43ft 5th wheel and they never mentioned that I might be over payload even though Im well under towing capabilities. I checked my door tag on my 2020 2500hd duramax and it says max payload of 3300 lbs which is more then enough. Did they just increase the payload for newer trucks?

How much does your truck and trailer weigh FULLY LOADED? How much of that is pin weight? You may be barely within the ratings, but I can assure you I would never under any circumstances tow a 43' camper with a light duty 3/4 ton truck. Lives are more important than that. Jay

[2gypsies]

Something to think seriously about...... from a document I was reading:    

"If you exceed what the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of your vehicle is, you could get ticketed. But that could be the least of your worries if you’re caught surpassing your vehicle’s GVWR, meaning you could also face criminal charges, including manslaughter in some states if there is an accident that involves the loss of life. That’s not to mention overloading your truck could cause serious damage to the vehicle itself, like breaking the suspension.

There are also legal requirements for different GVWRs. Your vehicle may need specific insurance if it rates above a certain GVWR. You may need a CDL license to operate a commercial vehicle over a certain GVWR. This is why it’s important to know what the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is for your vehicle."

[NDBirdman]

I'm hoping this is just a prankster stirring the pot.  Please tell me no one would do this.

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

If you exceed what the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of your vehicle is, you could get ticketed. But that could be the least of your worries if you’re caught surpassing your vehicle’s GVWR, meaning you could also face criminal charges, including manslaughter in some states if there is an accident that involves the loss of life

Can you tell us where this is the case and who it is that will write the tickets? How about a link to the laws that would be enforced? I have been RVing for more than 40 years and you are the first that I have ever heard say this, 

[rickeieio]

I learned the hard way that the door sticker is generic to that truck model.  My F-150 calls for 36 psi in the tires, which might be right for a single cab, 2wd, XL model.  Weighing the truck and looking up the proper inflation on the tire makes web site shows I need about 48 psi. for an empty truck.

I suspect tow/cargo capacities are published in the same manner.

[2gypsies]

6 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Can you tell us where this is the case and who it is that will write the tickets? How about a link to the laws that would be enforced? I have been RVing for more than 40 years and you are the first that I have ever heard say this, 

I got my original comment from an article when I Googled about this post statement.  I can't find it now.   Here's another:

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0214.htm#:~:text=Manslaughter.,accident that results in death.

[jamtracy]

15 hours ago, NDBirdman said:

I'm hoping this is just a prankster stirring the pot.  Please tell me no one would do this.

I don't think this is a prank at all. I belong to a few groups and whenever this topic comes up there is all kinds of comments on how they tow their 42 or 43 foot beast with a 2500. It's really scary.

[Jaydrvr]

8 hours ago, 2gypsies said:

I got my original comment from an article when I Googled about this post statement.  I can't find it now.   Here's another:

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0214.htm#:~:text=Manslaughter.,accident that results in death.

And that is all about COMMERCIAL vehicles. I've never heard of a personal vehicle getting a fine for overweight, either. We've all seen the ones that qualify. Jay

[NDBirdman]

3 hours ago, jamtracy said:

I don't think this is a prank at all. I belong to a few groups and whenever this topic comes up there is all kinds of comments on how they tow their 42 or 43 foot beast with a 2500. It's really scary.

I saw a 2500 RAM pulling what looked to be atleast 42ft Momentum at a rest stop in the mountains once.  I struck up a conversation with him about the camper.  I eventually asked how that truck handled the weight, he said the trucks modified to handle it.  I left that alone pointing out my rig then asked him, when he see's it, please stay very far away from it, I don't want to be involved in his crash.  He just stormed off... never did see him or his rig again, thank goodness!!!

 

This is an old pic I took a few ... years back.  Towing with a 2500, atleast to me be like... :

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by NDBirdman

[Tulecreeper]

18 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Can you tell us where this is the case and who it is that will write the tickets? How about a link to the laws that would be enforced? I have been RVing for more than 40 years and you are the first that I have ever heard say this, 

 

3 hours ago, Jaydrvr said:

And that is all about COMMERCIAL vehicles. I've never heard of a personal vehicle getting a fine for overweight, either. We've all seen the ones that qualify. Jay

As retired LE, I can assure you it happens regularly.  Usually a Commercial Driver Enforcement Officer (or whatever the local term is) from the state Highway Patrol who knows the weight limits/laws will be the one doing the ticketing.