Help wanted:

[Randyretired]

I keep hearing people talk about a liveable wage but I don't know what that means.  A liveable wage here in Western Colorado wouldn't cover rent in Denver, Aspen and many other places in our state.  When you look at places like New York City the chasm widens even more.  Add in the inflation we are seeing and prices changing nearly daily and business owners are left to try and make sense of an unstable mess.  Businesses need to balance enough pay to attract and retain workers while keeping their prices low enough to attract customers.  It is certainly complicated.

[Barbaraok]

42 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

Whether you leave a tip in cash or on the credit card slip makes no difference in restaurants that practice tip pooling.

You do realize that a lot of restaurants don’t share tips with staff that are above 15%?

[Barbaraok]

36 minutes ago, mptjelgin said:

You are going to want to check your "facts" Kirk. 

Neither the Texas ERS (Employee Retirement System) nor the TRS (Teacher Retirement System) have COLA's built into them.  I retired in 2010 and have not seen any increase in my pension, nor to I expect to in the next eleven years. I had co-workers who retired 5 years before me who have likewise not received any COLA.

I understand that TRS has not given an increase in 17 years, except for a single increase in 2013 to those who had retired prior to August 31, 2004. 

Even more, faculty at most universities are usually invested in TIAA or another 403b company, which has nothing to do with the state.

[Kirk W]

24 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

I do not have a government pension.  Where did you get that idea?  

Did you not retire from teaching?  No pension from them? If not I was mistaken.

26 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

I notice that you seem to agree that a minimum wage from 2009 is fine for today?

I thought that was pretty clear but there are very few jobs that would be impacted significantly by the change.

26 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

You do realize that a lot of restaurants don’t share tips with staff that are above 15%?

No I didn't and if that is true, can you document it? Are you saying that the business keeps tips over 15%?

Quote

• Neither the Texas ERS (Employee Retirement System) nor the TRS (Teacher Retirement System) have COLA's built into them. 

You are correct that I was not aware of that. None of the retired teachers that I know well enough to know such facts were teaching in TX. I guess I thought that they would be the same everywhere.  I do know of several states that do have but perhaps that isn't true for all of those either. 

[bigjim]

2 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

restaurants that practice tip pooling.

 A practice that is unfair in reality and actually theft in another. Stealing from the one that may have done the better job. I understand why this is done but do question how it is even legal.  To be fair and observant of another view the higher tip can  result from luck as to who you were lucky enough to wait on.  Rite?   no right. (I just wanted to fit in)

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

Did you not retire from teaching?  No pension from them? If not I was mistaken.

I thought that was pretty clear but there are very few jobs that would be impacted significantly by the change.

No I didn't and if that is true, can you document it? Are you saying that the business keeps tips over 15%?

You are correct that I was not aware of that. None of the retired teachers that I know well enough to know such facts were teaching in TX. I guess I thought that they would be the same everywhere.  I do know of several states that do have but perhaps that isn't true for all of those either. 

1). Most university faculty are covered by an alternative retirement program which stays with the person, not the state where the school is located.   They can opt for TRS, but most don't.  The university's share is the same as with TRS but since faculty move frequently, it stays with you.  So our retirement is based on income earned at several different universities we worked at throughout the country.  It is a 403b under TIAA.  403bs are for universities, research institutions, hospitals, etc., can all belong to this investment service.   

2) Until just recently MOST jobs at Walmart were minimum wage with a lot of their employees qualifying for SNAP, etc.   In fact, even at $15/hr, a lot of people will still be eligible for assistance because that is below the poverty level if you have several kids at home.   And wait-staff at most restaurants are paid even less!   Check the wage level at nursing homes, grocery stores, etc. Unless states have raised the minimum wage level, most are at the federal level.    And when those employees qualify for assistance we, the taxpayers, are subsidizing the owners of the business who do not pay a living wage.  

3)Door Dash got caught keeping all of the tips.  I have heard from wait-staff that they appreciate the cash tips and keep anything above the 15% the owner requires in the mixed employee jar.   

4). You must understand university faculty are treated differently than K-12 teachers in public schools in most states.   Even in Texas, university non-faculty employees are required to participate in TRS, but not administrators and faculty.  But, the faculty who go with the 403b retirement have to pay social security taxes, not so with those covered by TRS, which can lead to a different set of problems if one isn't careful. 

 

 

[Dutch_12078]

23 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

You do realize that a lot of restaurants don’t share tips with staff that are above 15%?

The rules vary from state to state, but in California for instance, an employer cannot take any part of a tip that's left for an employee. That means that wait staff can't be forced to share their tips with the owners, managers, or supervisors. Employers are allowed to deduct certain charges from wait staff tips such as credit card charges and mandatory service charges such as the 15% gratuity often tacked onto large parties, catering, etc. Wait staff may also be required to tip out or pool tips with other employees. States have different rules about tip pools, but employers or managers are never allowed to dip into the pool. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dutch_12078
Clarity

[Dutch_12078]

39 minutes ago, bigjim said:

 A practice that is unfair in reality and actually theft in another. Stealing from the one that may have done the better job. I understand why this is done but do question how it is even legal.  To be fair and observant of another view the higher tip can  result from luck as to who you were lucky enough to wait on.  Rite?   no right. (I just wanted to fit in)

Tip pooling works best in establishments that allow wait staff to assist each other as food runners, table bussing, where the overall actions of the staff contribute to the overall customer satisfaction leading to higher tips. Sharing a percentage of the pool with back of the house help such as dish washers, food prep staff, etc, also helps ensure better cooperation with fewer mistakes and better products. It doesn't work well in all situations of course...

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Check the wage level at nursing homes, grocery stores, etc. Unless states have raised the minimum wage level, most are at the federal level.  

That is quite different from what the Department of Labor numbers state. How about sharing your information sources? 

Quote

Walmart said last month that it plans to raise average pay for U.S. hourly workers to at least $15.25 an hour, focusing on digital fulfillment and stocking workers who will receive a starting wage of $13-$19 an hour from March 13, as America's biggest private employer looks to retain labor to support its fast-growing ...Mar 2, 2021  

https://www.reuters.com › article › us-walmart-wages 

Payscale.com says that the average starting wage for unskilled workers in a US nursing home is $16.44. Pay.com says that the average starting wage for workers in a grocery store vary from $8.90 to $15.90, depending on the position. 

The jobs that depend on tips are one that I think has gone far wrong. When we visited Australia, we found that there tips are not expected or encouraged and the salaries are adjusted accordingly. I happen to think that their way is better than ours. I would happily pay more at a restaurant if I were not expected to tip. I suspect that most wait help would agree with that. 

Bellmen, and others are not tipped there either and I don't think that anyone is. It seems in the USA we are expected to tip more and more.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Kirk W

[sandsys]

About 35 years ago our daughter worked as a grocery store cashier making $12.50 an hour! That was a lot of money back then. But, it was a union shop so part of that money went to pay union dues. Still, I was astonished when she told me her hourly wage. I wonder what it is for cashiers now that they don't have to memorize all those fruits and vegetables because they come with stickers now?

Linda

 

[Ray,IN]

Anyone know how to contact  a moderator? Apparently a time-out is in order for the thread. Personal attacks accomplish nothing nor does it contribute anything to the conversation.

[sandsys]

41 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

Anyone know how to contact  a moderator? Apparently a time-out is in order for the thread. Personal attacks accomplish nothing nor does it contribute anything to the conversation.

Click on the three dots on the upper right and report the thread.

[bigjim]

Dutch you have stated what makes sense and I would say justifies sharing.   In my experience in the dark ages it was common to share with the behind the scenes staff for the reasons you stated.  Just not so much between actual wait staff directly. 

[Ray,IN]

14 hours ago, sandsys said:

Click on the three dots on the upper right and report the thread.

That was a tongue-in-cheek comment to hopefully get back on topic instead of semantics.

Dutch, when my  youngest daughter waitressed between her junior/ senior summer she received a lot of tips due to her personality and looks.

One day  the manager told her she would have to begin pooling her tips as some of the other waitresses weren't getting much.

I told her to say no to the manager, she did. He dropped the issue.

That practice is very detrimental to personal motivation and the desire to excel at the job IMO.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Ray,IN

[Barbaraok]

Tipping for wait staff is problematic because a lot of people won't leave a tip or under tip if they didn't like the food but didn't complain and give the establishment a chance to rectify the problem.  

I started tipping the carryout folks at fast food places during the pandemic - especially in the Phoenix area last summer, having to run in and out of a/c to bring food to people in 115° temperatures.   I could use my cash back cards for the order itself and then a couple of bucks to put in their 'pool' jar.  Never know if there was even a pool tip jar at each restaurant.  I know that Starbucks has them, so also put something in - - I was so thankful that they were able to work during that time and give us a treat.    Hardest part was getting small bills when you are routinely going into place and getting change.   I ended up going into an open bank branch (hard to find last summer) and getting $100 in ones and fives for tips.   

[Kirk W]

Is this pooling of tips a common practice nowadays? It has been a long time since there was anyone I know well in the food service business. When our son worked bussing tables and filling water glasses & copy cups the waitresses were expected to share with the buss staff since that impacts tips but I was not aware of the tip pool thing. 

 

[Dutch_12078]

44 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Is this pooling of tips a common practice nowadays? It has been a long time since there was anyone I know well in the food service business. When our son worked bussing tables and filling water glasses & copy cups the waitresses were expected to share with the buss staff since that impacts tips but I was not aware of the tip pool thing. 

 

Tip pooling varies from restaurant to restaurant, and participation is determined by the management. The legal status and methods of tip pooling are controlled by both federal and state/local regulations so there are no hard and fast overall rules. In some restaurants pooling works well by spreading the work load over more staff than individual service alone, while other restaurants use separate wait and buss staff, with the buss staff paid at least standard minimum wage with no tip sharing. Both tipping out and pooling have their advantages and disadvantages, so prospective employees would do well to know which practice is in place before making a job decision so there are no surprises.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Dutch_12078
typo

[sandsys]

Where we are living there is no tipping allowed. Once a year residents donate money which is divided up and distributed in December among all the staff: restaurant, housekeeping, maintenance, etc. The longer you work here the larger share you get. So, I see it as an employee retention bonus rather than tips for service.

Linda Sand

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, sandsys said:

Where we are living there is no tipping allowed.

Which is pretty much the standard in senior citizen communities, but I really think that the discussion was about restaurants that are open to the public. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Kirk W

[Dutch_12078]

The ultimate in tip pooling!

"A customer left a $16,000 tip..."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/26/us/customer-16k-tip-new-hampshire-trnd/index.html

Edited June 27, 2021 by Dutch_12078

[Ray,IN]

Apparently the U.S.A. is not the only country dealing with how tips and service charges are treated for wait-staff.

U.K. Government Urged to Include Service Charge in Furlough Payments - Eater London

Minimum wage for wait-staff by state. Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees | U.S. Department of Labor (dol.gov)

The 3 column is actual minimum cash wage.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Ray,IN

[packnrat]

where i work, in a major city even. engulfed by more city's. we can not even get a fueler/washer $18+ hr to start, with full union bennys,retirement, etc. and lots of overtime. (24-7 company). great job for that kid fresh out of high school. very easy work.