Help wanted:

[Barbaraok]

There are help wanted signs in every state as things open back up.  Excess deaths due to Covid will account for some of the shortages, and a lot of women have dropped out of the workforce because they are still trying to find child care they can afford.   Huge numbers of child care firms went out of business when everything closed down.    Then there are not insignificant number of people who didn't die, but have developed long-hauler syndrome and may be out of the workforce for a long period of time, if not permanently disabled by the virus.      

[Ray,IN]

IMO the largest detriment to hiring wait-staff is the Federal Government exception to the minimum wage for said workers. This does not apply to non wait-staff workers.

The IRS assumes tips will make up for paying less than minimum wage, thus the ruling.. It wasn't many years ago waitresses made less than $4/hr wages. Then the IRS assumes every such worker receives 10% in tips, then tax accordingly regardless of actual tips are reported less than 10%.

 

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, Randyretired said:

The Wendy's  we were at yesterday has a help wanted sign and an additional sign that says

We just left a Wendy's in Mesquite TX that has signs at both doors and out front that say that they are hiring for crew workers, team leaders, and management. Pretty much all retail stores here are hiring. I also saw a daycare yesterday that also had a large sign out near the street, help wanted, no experience required.

[Ray,IN]

2 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

We just left a Wendy's in Mesquite TX that has signs at both doors and out front that say that they are hiring for crew workers, team leaders, and management. Pretty much all retail stores here are hiring. I also saw a daycare yesterday that also had a large sign out near the street, help wanted, no experience required.

According to the small business administration 20% or more of small business's that had to close will never reopen. Wendy's and many other stores are franchise operations, thus classed as small business's.

The full recovery date from the pandemic shutdown keeps being pushed out, now estimates are 20 years for total recovery.

[mptjelgin]

In Kerrville Texas today I noticed that the McDonald's had a "help wanted" sign at their drive through. Entry level workers were being offered $11 per hour, with shift managers being paid $14 per hour and up.  Based on my experience working fast food decades ago in high school, becoming a shift manager could happen within a matter of months for hard-working, reliable folks. The situation seems to be the same for most retailers and restaurants in the area. 

[Kirk W]

12 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

The IRS assumes tips will make up for paying less than minimum wage, thus the ruling.. It wasn't many years ago waitresses made less than $4/hr wages. Then the IRS assumes every such worker receives 10% in tips, then tax accordingly regardless of actual tips are reported less than 10%.

This is not correct. If you read IRS publication 531, it states that if a wait person fails to report tips they must apply an assumed rate of 8% of the total employee sales, unless that employee has filed an IRS form to get a lower imputed rate. That information is only used for computation of income tax and social security withholding.  The IRS is not involved in minimum wage issues, that comes for the wage/hour division of the Labor department. There is a very wide range in tip rates, depending on where you work. The workers at a fine restaurant usually make good money while those in Denny's or IHOP don't do so great. 

The Wall Street Journal has an article about business failures.

Covid-19’s Toll on U.S. Business?

Edited June 17, 2021 by Kirk W
BarbOK complained.

[Ray,IN]

2 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

This is not correct. If you read IRS publication 531, it states that if a wait person fails to report tips they must apply an assumed rate of 8% of the total employee sales, unless that employee has filed an IRS form to get a lower imputed rate. That information is only used for computation of income tax and social security withholding.  The IRS is not involved in minimum wage issues, that comes for the wage/hour division of the Labor department. There is a very wide range in tip rates, depending on where you work. The girls at a fine restaurant usually make good money while those in Denny's or IHOP don't do so great. 

The Wall Street Journal has an article about business failures.

Covid-19’s Toll on U.S. Business?

Thanks for the correction Kirk, I was relating what a waitress told me in 2019.

[Kirk W]

24 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

I was relating what a waitress told me in 2019.

I know that some of them tell a very different story. My oldest sister used to complain that it was no business of the IRS what she got in tips and that it wasn't fair that they expected her to pay tax on tips. Until 1982, the IRS just accepted whatever a wait person chose to claim. The following comes from Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

Quote

Before the credit in 1982, the IRS estimated that only 15% of tip income was reported. After the credit was enacted, the IRS still estimated that fewer than 40% of all tips were reported in 1998; roughly $9-$12 billion in unreported income. 

 

[Barbaraok]

Quote

 I also saw a daycare yesterday that also had a large sign out near the street, help wanted, no experience required.

I shutter to think about quality when you see something like that!

[Barbaraok]

50 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

There is a very wide range in tip rates, depending on where you work. The girls at a fine restaurant usually make good money while those in Denny's or IHOP don't do so great. 

So only 'girls' work as wait staff?  Careful Kirk, you're using old stereotypes about wait staff.  Last 3 restaurants we were in had male wait staff members that served us.

[Barbaraok]

We always leave the tip in cash at restaurants, even if we use a card for the meal.  As most people I have heard comment, we are tipping larger amounts since the pandemic hit.  Trying to circulate that stimulus check we got. 😉

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

So only 'girls' work as wait staff?  

I shutter to think about quality when you see something like that!

Sorry to step on your feminist sensitivities! Actually it was an oversite as I started to reference the tips at Hooters, but changed that. I think if you visit Hooter's you will have a difficult time finding any wait staff that is male.  😁

Professor, did you maybe mean to say shudder? I can't believe that you actually used the wrong word? 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Kirk W

[Barbaraok]

Kirk,

Chemists and Chem Engineers do occasionally misspell words - and it has only gotten worse since auto-correct on the iPad came into play filling in what it thinks I mean to say.   Yes, the word should have been shudder.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

OK, I have stayed put of this debate but it has gotten to the point that some things need to be said. Everyone talks about a "living wage". Who are the people that get these jobs? Most of them are entry level jobs for kids who have no skill sets. If you are a grown adult that didn't learn any skill growing up nor have an education, why do you think you deserve more money?

If you are currently making $8 an hour more than minimum wage and your state increases the minimum wage by $8 an hour, are you going to want you wages increased? Yeah, I thought so.

As a business owner that has to train an employee for at least two years before I can start getting a return on them, what do you think I look for in an employee? Someone young, starting out and wanting to learn a trade. Do you know WHAT I have apply for a job? A good percentage don't have a high school diploma or a GED. They can't add 1/2 and 1/4 without a calculator and even then screw up that simple problem.

They can't read a tape or a scale, have very little if ANY math ability. They show up for a job interview wearing flip flops, pajama bottoms and a T shirt. They don't want to take a drug test because that is against their "rights". They want to work from home to learn a trade (that works really well....).

Do I really need to get into their use of a cell phone? I have lost as much as 40% of a workers day because they are off hiding in the bathroom, taking a smoke break or some other excuse to be on their phone. I have even had them texting during a damn interview!

Bottom line? I have a few people left here from our original crew and have an office off shore that I will be expanding. They want jobs, are willing to work, have great attitudes, and love the pay we offer as it is the same as what I would pay here. We have raised a generation of ungrateful, spoiled brats that want everything given to them without any effort.

Our local McDonalds is paying $15 an hour for a kid to flip burgers. If you want to help the people that really need it, try looking at the wages earned by our service members. Check out what a new E5 makes a month. That $15 an hour kid with a grand total skill set of being able to flip a burger and taking out the trash makes more per month than that E5 with his butt on the line for the public he swore an oath to defend.

Cry me a river people but don't use Covid as a crutch for all the problems this country is facing.

Edited June 17, 2021 by GeorgiaHybrid

[Barbaraok]

Last time the minimum wage was raised was in 2009.   Has ANYTHING else stayed the same since 2009?  

Your initial hypothesis is wrong.  It is NOT just kids getting minimum wage.  The rest of the post is you trying to explain why you are willing to give people living in another area of the world a wage that allows for them to support themselves given the cost of living in that country, but not willing to offer a living wage for someone in this country.  

BTW, what trade are you teaching that requires 2 years of instruction?  Is it a trade that community colleges should have in their curriculum?

 

[TXiceman]

You need a minimum skill set to perform most jobs.  The menial jobs that require minimal or no skill set are minimum wage jobs.  If you want more than minimum wage, you can learn a skill set and move up the pay scale.  Our 16 year old grandson is working this summer at Discount Tire and making $11.50 to start and after he is trained and can change and balance tires, he gets a $1.00 an hour wage increase.  He is helping to pay for the truck his parents helped him buy.

I started working as a welders helper for $1.25 and hour and learned drafting skills and moved up to drafting work for summers and part-time in college.  I got an engineering degree and came out of college debt free with a degree.  It does take some work, but now I am comfortable and retired.

I just cannot see $15 per hour for menial and unskilled work.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

18 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

Last time the minimum wage was raised was in 2009.   Has ANYTHING else stayed the same since 2009?  

Your initial hypothesis is wrong.  It is NOT just kids getting minimum wage.  The rest of the post is you trying to explain why you are willing to give people living in another area of the world a wage that allows for them to support themselves given the cost of living in that country, but not willing to offer a living wage for someone in this country.  

BTW, what trade are you teaching that requires 2 years of instruction?  Is it a trade that community colleges should have in their curriculum?

 

I hate to tell you this but I have to compete with those other countries for work. The US worker can be a LOT more efficient at a job and get a higher price but parity will come in when competing with Indian and Chinese companies. My other office is in the Philippines and they have been with me for a while but they still have to compete with lower priced firms

As far as  minimum wage jobs going to people other than kids, yes you are correct. Like I said in my post above, if you are an adult with ZERO skill sets and no education, what makes that MY problem as a business owner? Anyone can get an education or learn a trade in this country if they want to and have the desire. The fact that someone doesn't do either is not society's problem to fix. It is THEIR problem to fix.

As far as my business is concerned, we make shop drawings for steel fabricators using 3D solids modeling on computers. It is a specialized version of a drafting job and yes, it has and is being taught in several community colleges across the country but guess what? You have to PAY the community college to learn while I PAY the employee to learn. After two years, you are making the same money and, if you desire, can go somewhere else and get a job.

You will have a skill set that is valuable to an employer and will be able to make your way in the world. If you don't have that desire, and are happy with lower paying jobs because they are easy, then accept the pay scale that having no education or skills comes with.

[Barbaraok]

37 minutes ago, TXiceman said:

I just cannot see $15 per hour for menial and unskilled work.

What would the 1.25 hr wage be today adjusted for inflation?   In 1963, $1.25 was the minimum wage, assume that was the year we are talking about, it should be $10.71 now.    

Even the $15/hr wage would give a gross of $600/week, or $2400/month.   Current cost of living in US for a family of 4 is right about $4500/month.   And that is abysmal type of living - just getting by.   

 

[Barbaraok]

23 minutes ago, GeorgiaHybrid said:

As far as my business is concerned, we make shop drawings for steel fabricators using 3D solids modeling on computers. It is a specialized version of a drafting job and yes, it has and is being taught in several community colleges across the country but guess what? You have to PAY the community college to learn while I PAY the employee to learn. After two years, you are making the same money and, if you desire, can go somewhere else and get a job.
 

So offer the jobs at the wage you would pay after two years and list the qualifications necessary.   That would give you employees who could do the work, are more efficient, and would help the US economy.   But you would probably have to pay more than what you pay in the Philippines, right?  

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Chemists and Chem Engineers do occasionally misspell words -

But that doesn't keep you from criticizing others? For you it is somehow different?   🙃

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Even the $15/hr wage would give a gross of $600/week, or $2400/month.   Current cost of living in US for a family of 4 is right about $4500/month.   And that is abysmal type of living - just getting by.   

What is it that caused you to get an education and improve your lot? Might it have been the desire to live better? I grew up in farm country and my dad struggled for years before giving up and moving into town for a job as a school janitor at the age of 54. He then worked until he was 74 in order to get enough retirement and SS to support himself and his wife. That gave me the incentive to find a way to improve my lot in life which I did by joining the Navy and later going to college part-time on the GI bill. There are more ways to get training to improve your wages today than ever in the past so it can still be done. 

Increasing wages is an inevitable thing and nothing stays the same, but now that I live on a fixed income, my minimum wage changes very little. While SS does get some small increases, like most who get part of their income from private industry pensions, I have seen no increase in that part of my income since I retired 20 years ago. It is very easy for you to support increasing wages because you are one of those with a government pension that will increase along with prices, but many of us do not have that privilege. Very few people today are working for minimum wages. From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Quote

The percentage of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 2.7 percent in 2016 to 2.3 percent in 2017. 

 This is the latest numbers that I am able to find but the historic trend has been downward for years and I'd but it continues that trend.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Kirk W

[2gypsies]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Sorry to step on your feminist sensitivities! Actually it was an oversite as I started to reference the tips at Hooters, but changed that. I think if you visit Hooter's you will have a difficult time finding any wait staff that is male.  😁

Professor, did you maybe mean to say shudder? I can't believe that you actually used the wrong word? 

I think maybe you meant oversight?   😁

[Dutch_12078]

15 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

We always leave the tip in cash at restaurants, even if we use a card for the meal.  As most people I have heard comment, we are tipping larger amounts since the pandemic hit.  Trying to circulate that stimulus check we got. 😉

Whether you leave a tip in cash or on the credit card slip makes no difference in restaurants that practice tip pooling.

[mptjelgin]

33 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

It is very easy for you to support increasing wages because you are one of those with a government pension that will increase along with prices, but many of us do not have that privilege.

You are going to want to check your "facts" Kirk. 

Neither the Texas ERS (Employee Retirement System) nor the TRS (Teacher Retirement System) have COLA's built into them.  I retired in 2010 and have not seen any increase in my pension, nor to I expect to in the next eleven years. I had co-workers who retired 5 years before me who have likewise not received any COLA.

I understand that TRS has not given an increase in 17 years, except for a single increase in 2013 to those who had retired prior to August 31, 2004. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by mptjelgin

[GeorgiaHybrid]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

So offer the jobs at the wage you would pay after two years and list the qualifications necessary.   That would give you employees who could do the work, are more efficient, and would help the US economy.   But you would probably have to pay more than what you pay in the Philippines, right?  

I don't have a problem paying someone with two years experience or schooling a good wage. I do have a problem paying someone that wage for two years TEACHING them how to do the job. And before you put your foot further into your mouth, my cost in Manilla is $17.50 for an average. the less experienced people are under that and the more experienced are paid more than that.

I can't find anyone in this country that that can add 2+2 and give you the correct answer that will flip on a light switch for less than $25 and that is NOT acceptable for a "training" wage.

If you want to help the US economy, try getting the government to REQUIRE that jobs having government funding must have all labor done in the USA. Yeah, good luck with that, guess where they get their paychecks and marching orders from...

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

But that doesn't keep you from criticizing others? For you it is somehow different?   🙃

What is it that caused you to get an education and improve your lot? Might it have been the desire to live better? I grew up in farm country and my dad struggled for years before giving up and moving into town for a job as a school janitor at the age of 54. He then worked until he was 74 in order to get enough retirement and SS to support himself and his wife. That gave me the incentive to find a way to improve my lot in life which I did by joining the Navy and later going to college part-time on the GI bill. There are more ways to get training to improve your wages today than ever in the past so it can still be done. 

Increasing wages is an inevitable thing and nothing stays the same, but now that I live on a fixed income, my minimum wage changes very little. While SS does get some small increases, like most who get part of their income from private industry pensions, I have seen no increase in that part of my income since I retired 20 years ago. It is very easy for you to support increasing wages because you are one of those with a government pension that will increase along with prices, but many of us do not have that privilege. Very few people today are working for minimum wages. From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

 This is the latest numbers that I am able to find but the historic trend has been downward for years and I'd but it continues that trend.

I do not have a government pension.  Where did you get that idea?  I grew up in a middle class family.  My drive was my love a science especially chemistry.  Our retirement is based on our investments plus SS.  
 

I notice that you seem to agree that a minimum wage from 2009 is fine for today?