The future of RVing as many know it is doomed

[Kirk W]

The future of RVing as many know it is doomed  from RV Travel.

[DanZemke]

Interesting article.  But I think the author suffers from premature speculation.

"Would I buy a diesel-anything today? As a friend of mine in the legislature told me, Only as a short-term waste of your money.”

For the vast majority of goods in the US, the last leg in the delivery chain is a diesel truck.  Will that change?  Probably.  But probably over a period of decades, not years.  Well before any transition is 80% complete, I'm likely to be dead.

It's also interesting to me, that the author focused on diesel, rather than petroleum fuel.  IMO, the erosion of vehicle value and increase of ownership costs for diesel and gasoline will be similar.

For us old folks, the sky is not falling .

[sandsys]

The Mercedes Sprinter van now offers gasoline powered version.

Linda

[NamMedevac 70]

I also just read this and very interesting good read.  Cheers to many and none to a few. 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1739912699644241&type=3

[2gypsies]

This is just an author's opinion.  He does state "Of course, there are those who take full advantage of these capabilities and seek them out. They serve some owners very well, as do the large diesel engines that they utilize to travel this wonderful country."  There's a niche for every kind of RV.

[NamMedevac 70]

Very sensitive.  The sooner the better.  As I recall he provides facts from other sources and what he said about VW diesel cars has been verified by facts, court decisions and many numerous reported news sources for many years so not everything is baloney or  just author's opinion.  He provided stats showing the recent almost stagnant sales of Class As compared to other RV types that showed large increased sales. I no longer hear people bragging about their diesel cars, etc.  Cheers to the good guys. Capt. Happy here.

Edited June 3, 2021 by NamMedevac 70

[bruce t]

It's "only" an opinion. As long as there is a trucking industry there will be diesel powered A class motorhomes. Another factor to keep in mind while looking at current RV sales is the nature of the current market. Before covid there was a limit to how many folks purchased RVs. Only those who "wanted" to go RVing purchased RVs. Now with covid affected travel, especially over seas, a whole new market has opened up. Now the market is flooded with new RVers. These new buyers are distorting the RV market. Very few new RVers will jump into a large A class. So that alone will distort sales figures. Then when covid is just a bad memory the new Ever will return to world travel. Then the market may well tank.

Politics and ideaollogy are heavily invested in pushing out fossil fuel demand. In large countries such as the USA and Australia EVs are simply not viable. Infrastructure alone will impede the demise of diesel. Imagine Flying J etc removing diesel pumps and installing power outlets. Until you can recharge your EV in the same time as filling you diesel tank. Or travel as far between fuel stops.

Sure let's go green. But let market forces make the change and not the city based dreamers. Beta was better than VHS but market forces determine otherwise. So what will the RV market do without political interference?

[pjstough]

It is no coincidence that virtually all pessimists are buried in unmarked graves.

[Zulu]

3 hours ago, bruce t said:

Imagine Flying J etc removing diesel pumps and installing power outlets.

Imagine . . .

 

3 hours ago, bruce t said:

Sure let's go green. But let market forces make the change and not the city based dreamers. Beta was better than VHS but market forces determine otherwise.

If you wanted to make a case for market forces, then you should have picked a better example as in this case market forces picked the inferior product.

And there are also rural-based dreamers.

[Zulu]

10 hours ago, Kirk W said:

The future of RVing as many know it is doomed  from RV Travel.

Actually, it should be titled "The future of Class A Diesel Pusher RVing . . . "

And this companion piece . . .

From Horse Dung to Car Smog

Edited May 31, 2021 by Zulu

[NamMedevac 70]

6 hours ago, pjstough said:

It is no coincidence that virtually all pessimists are buried in unmarked graves.

Please show me a link to your evidence. Cheers for you.

[Kirk W]

8 hours ago, Zulu said:

Actually, it should be titled "The future of Class A Diesel Pusher RVing . . . "

And this companion piece . . .

"If God Had Meant Man to Fly, He Would Have Given Him Wings! "

When I read that article I knew that it would get some folks going.  While I doubt that I will live long enough to see the diesel engine replaced, I can remember when people scoffed at the idea of cars that are powered by batteries too. And my grandmother thought that Dick Tracy's two way wrist radio was a ridiculous fantasy. 

The diesel pusher class A is mostly an American toy, with very few of them in other parts of the world. When I first began driving, cars were getting bigger and everyone "knew" that American drivers would never accept smaller cars to save gasoline, since it was so cheap. It may well be that Tony Barthel is wrong in his predictions, but I'll wager that he is right in that changes are coming. 

Quote

I think the RV space is going to change with a combination of technologies and governmental intrusion. With ever-increasing numbers of electric tow vehicles hitting the roads and on the horizon, we’re going to see demand for towable RVs that don’t put such a hit on the range of these vehicles. 

2022 Ford F-150 Lightning First Look:

Edited May 31, 2021 by Kirk W
correct typo

[DJohns]

I can say that I travel a 200 mile stretch of I-80 in Nebraska regularly. It has at least 4 charging stations in  that stretch of road. I almost never see any one charging. I would not want to have money invested in this venture.

If or when diesel is phasing out natural gas will replace it. UPS is running some trucks out on the interstate on natural gas now. It is coming to a place near you!

[oldcodger]

The company I worked for in the 1990's sent me and several other machinists to The Netherlands for six months to work in their factory there so we could be fully trained on the new products they were introducing here in the USA. Cut to the chase, many of our Dutch colleges were already driving vehicles fueled by LPG. LPG fueled vehicles are and have been in this country for years but there is still a need for diesel engines for the transportation industry because at this moment in time some form of truck brought you goods and services. I say this because I also was a professional steering wheel holder for ten years before retirement.

Dave

[DJohns]

Dave

I have had several vehicles that run on LPG and it is a great fuel however I am talking about Natural gas that comes to most homes. Trucks are running on Natural gas also. There are several truck stops selling nat gas to the more regional trucks by that I mean 150 mile one way stops.

[noteven]

You can order a new class 8 truck with a Cummins natural gas engine. 

Tankage is an issue - you need 4x the gallons for equivalent diesel range.

Torque output per litre displacement is lower than diesel - gas engine has lower cylinder pressure. s

 

A promising tech for long haul trucks is the on board recovery of plant respiration gas (CO2) as well as real pollutants (NOx etc) which is then pumped off at terminal locations rather than emitted into the atmospheres. 

[sandsys]

3 hours ago, noteven said:

promising tech for long haul trucks is the on board recovery of plant respiration gas (CO2) as well as real pollutants (NOx etc) which is then pumped off at terminal locations rather than emitted into the atmospheres. 

And what do those stations do with the pollutants? That sounds to me like the same problem nuclear power stations have.

Linda

[Ray,IN]

Still yet, with all the technology available a gasoline engine is more polluting than a diesel engine. I do foresee  the demise of gas engines, but diesel engines are being promoted in Europe.

[Kirk W]

Quote

Diesel engines took a huge, disgraceful hit when Volkswagen was exposed for installing software on its vehicles designed to cheat emissions tests. But the fact remains that diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines—and according to one recent study, newer models are cleaner, except for their higher emissions of nitrogen oxides. This problem has led to heavily decreased sales of diesels in Europe, while some big cities such as Paris are now planning to ban diesels. Meanwhile, sales of all-electric and hybrid cars are rapidly increasing in Europe. 

The national magazine of the Sierra Club

[packnrat]

the diesel motor is the best motor ever built. the sad truth is the garbage the eico nuts want on them now. as this def is killing the motors, hurting fuel mileage, etc.

just try and move a small class A using a battery. heck even the over head wire buses can not go up any of the simple hills in SF. does any city use battery or AC powered buses on any hills?

the truck i just bought had to be a weaker gasoline unit due to the down time and costs to the fail of the smog junk on a new diesel motor.

as to the end of a life style, the fed government has there hand in this as it is hard to control the free spirit of a free people.

and what is life of living on the road as one likes, if nothing more than freedom?

note to the editors: this is not meant to be a political statement, it is just a way of saying people like to live free.

[Pappy Yokum]

6 hours ago, sandsys said:

And what do those stations do with the pollutants? That sounds to me like the same problem nuclear power stations have.

Linda

Good thing age silly as us is on vacation!

Expect him to get rolling on the advantages of nuke energy (again) soon!

🙃

Edited June 1, 2021 by Pappy Yokum
typo.

[noteven]

On 5/31/2021 at 1:06 PM, sandsys said:

And what do those stations do with the pollutants? That sounds to me like the same problem nuclear power stations have.

Linda

A little searching around the interweb will find information on the various systems being researched. 

[docj]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:20 AM, DJohns said:

If or when diesel is phasing out natural gas will replace it. UPS is running some trucks out on the interstate on natural gas now. It is coming to a place near you!

I believe that the natural gas vehicles you are referring to run on compressed natural gas.  Yes, that's the same gas we get at our homes but it is delivered to vehicles at specialized transfer stations.  It, like electric vehicles, would require a new infrastructure if it was to go into widespread application.  We happen to have a CNG station not too far from our home in TX.  Mostly, I see trash trucks using it.

[packnrat]

yes local trucks use propane, and other forms of  gas and batteries to power them, but try to pull a mt pass in anything other than a large diesel motor while pulling 80K of truck & goods to the market, can you say so slow as to stall out.

or having to stop every 200 miles to sit for 12 hrs to recharge the batteries. a light weight car uses a lot, and having to power a rig takes a lot more. even the new tech in batteries weighs in very heavy for enough oomph to move a big rig..

does not mater what any one thinks the "fuel" should be, it is the BTU's that can be had out of a given amount of the fuel.

[Barbaraok]

27 minutes ago, packnrat said:

yes local trucks use propane, and other forms of  gas and batteries to power them, but try to pull a mt pass in anything other than a large diesel motor while pulling 80K of truck & goods to the market, can you say so slow as to stall out.

or having to stop every 200 miles to sit for 12 hrs to recharge the batteries. a light weight car uses a lot, and having to power a rig takes a lot more. even the new tech in batteries weighs in very heavy for enough oomph to move a big rig..

does not mater what any one thinks the "fuel" should be, it is the BTU's that can be had out of a given amount of the fuel.

And no one, no one, said electric 18-wheelers will be running down the highway and climbing the Rockies in the next few years.   BUT things will change.  Many of us will not live to see the changes, but they are coming.  Organisms that do not adapt and change eventually die out.