gfci issue?

[Happy Wanderer]

I woke up this morning to none of my 110v outlets working.  Everything else works, so figured it was a gfci issue.  Tested and reset the gfci several times over the course of troubleshooting.  First, I went out to the terminal to make sure I was getting shore power.  My surge protector verified 121 volts coming through.  Next, checked all the breakers and fuses, tripping each one and pulling the fuses to visually check.  All intact.  I'm thinking the gfci outlet has failed, but how do I know for sure?  The green light is still on, after I test and reset it.  

[Happy Wanderer]

Update:  Two of the seven outlets are now working, including the gfci outlet that has the test/reset. 

[Bill Joyce]

Had this problem and it was a loose wire connection to the GFCI.   I turned off the breaker, loosened the GFCI plate and pulled it out of the wall and fixed the wiring.  

[Kirk W]

21 minutes ago, Happy Wanderer said:

Update:  Two of the seven outlets are now working, including the gfci outlet that has the test/reset. 

Your are certain that none worked at first? You should push the test button and see if that makes power gone from all outlets, as it should. Do you have only 1 circuit for outlets? Some RVs, particularly those with 50a service have two different circuits for outlets. Do the TV and microwave work? What about your outside outlet? 

20 minutes ago, Bill Joyce said:

Had this problem and it was a loose wire connection to the GFCI. 

If that were the case here, it would affect all outlets after the GFCI. It is possible that there are outlets before the GFCI in the circuit which are not affected by it as some circuits are wired that way. To determine that you need to take some voltage readings. 

[Happy Wanderer]

Tested all eight outlets.  Only the two kitchen outlets are working with 120v to them.  The others are zero, including the one outside.  Something weird.... I flipped the main breaker, and when I turned it back on, the outlets in the entertainment center started working.  As soon as I plugged something into the front bedroom outlet, they stopped working again.  So, I flipped the main breaker off and on once more, and nothing.  I have a 30amp system.  Microwave, fridge, and water heater working.  Not the TV, because it's plugged into a non-working outlet.  Here's a pic of my panel.

[Happy Wanderer]

Kirk,  I pushed the test button, and power did indeed cut off from the two outlets that were working.  On pushing reset, the two kitchen outlets worked again, but the other six are still not.  I checked the screws on the back of the outlets, and they are all tight.  Is it possible that the outlet is faulty even though it still as power?  If it's possible that it could be faulty, then my next move would be to get a new gfci outlet from Home Depot?  What do you think?

[Ray,IN]

I suspect a hidden gfci receptacle somewhere. We have one I found hidden behind a "garage door" in a cabinet designed for a coffee maker.

[nash17k]

I too have had "hidden" gfci receptacle. Upstairs bathroom tied to first floor exterior outlet.

[Happy Wanderer]

Ray, that's interesting.  Thanks for the reply.  I have a 25' travel trailer, not nearly as sophisticated as your rig.  Although, it's possible that there's a hidden outlet, it's not likely.  I just tested both the line and the load terminals on the back of the outlet, and they are both getting 120 v.  So, if I interpret that correctly, the outlet itself is functioning properly.  Cancel trip to Home Depot.  All of my outlets have a sticker that says GFCI protected outlet, so it seems they should all be on the same circuit, since only one has the test/reset buttons.

[Chad Heiser]

Go to the last outlet in the line that still functions and check the wiring there.  Something could have come loose in that outlet and therefore no power is passing from it to the remaining outlets.

[oldjohnt]

Happy, typically and if alls correct, working and wired right, the GFCI receptacle protects devices plugged directly into it PLUS any standard downstream Non GFCI receptacles fed off its LOAD side terminals such as in kitchens, bathrooms or outdoor receptacles. Just like any other receptacle branch circuits, GFCI or not, they are daisy chained together so a few are fed off a common branch circuit downstream of one another HOWEVER a bad or loose or broken connection anywhere in that circuit (GFCI or not) kills any and all receptacles after and and downstream.

 If the label is correct ?????????? those "GFCI protected" standard outlets would be fed off the LOAD side of the master GFCI located upstream and ahead of them, but if its tripped OR NOT WORKING RIGHT they may be dead.

 Easier said then done, but if you start at the GFCI and test its own outlet ???,,,,then at its LOAD side terminal ???,,, then one at a time downstream and after receptacles, you may find where the problem is..Where in the branch circuit are you loosing power ??? You have to try one step at a time, GFCI Input, GFCI LOAD, Next receptacle one after another 

You ask "Is it possible that the outlet is faulty even though it still as power?  " Most often if the receptacles screw terminals are wired tight to live hot wires they function.... 

Your just gonna have to check at each and every receptacle GFCI as well as those fed from its LOAD side one at a time (broke or loose connections etc) AFTER YOU FIND ALLLLLLLLLL GFCI'S !!!!!!!!!

 Best wishes and good luck

John T

 

[Lance A Lott]

I have noticed that campers tend to run wires down each side of the unit not around the unit, if the kitchen and bathroom sinks are on opposite sides I would suspect 2 gfci outlet runs. I have one hidden by the slide out you can use it when it's out but we don't as it would rip the plug out when you close it if it was left plugged in.

[Kirk W]

On 5/1/2021 at 2:47 PM, Happy Wanderer said:

Thanks for the reply.  I have a 25' travel trailer, not nearly as sophisticated as your rig.  Although, it's possible that there's a hidden outlet, it's not likely.  I just tested both the line and the load terminals on the back of the outlet, and they are both getting 120 v.  So, if I interpret that correctly, the outlet itself is functioning properly. 

If you measured between each side and neutral, then you are interpreting correctly. The fact that your other two outlets go on and off with the GFCI also supports that conclusion. Additionally, you are also correct that a 25' travel trailer with 30A service is highly unlikely to have more than 1 circuit for household type outlets. There is no reason at all to replace the GFCI you have as it is working properly.  Since all of the outlets are labeled GFCI protected, that tells us also that all of them are on that one GFCT, unless there is some hidden one that you have not found, which seems highly unlikely to me. I have read all of the posts here and once again, I find that I very much agree with Chad.

On 5/2/2021 at 12:12 AM, Chad Heiser said:

Go to the last outlet in the line that still functions and check the wiring there.  Something could have come loose in that outlet and therefore no power is passing from it to the remaining outlets.

When you do as he suggests, by looking at the back of the working outlet you can easily see if there is another located downstream of it by the number of wires connected to it. The last outlet will have only 2 wires (1 black & 1 white)plus a bare ground wire. If you find 2 of each that means that there is another one. In nearly all RVs, the outlets are run in 1 long string with power leading from the GFCI to the next outlet in terms of physical distance by following the walls. Your problem is most likely in either the last one that has power or if not there it will be in the first one without power. One wire that is loose or not connected to either of those would in fact interrupt the power to all outlets from that point on.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Kirk W

[oldjohnt]

On 5/1/2021 at 3:47 PM, Happy Wanderer said:

I just tested both the line and the load terminals on the back of the outlet, and they are both getting 120 v.  So, if I interpret that correctly, the outlet itself is functioning properly. 

Obviously you need 120 on the LINE INPUT and the fact that you also have 120 on the LOAD OUTPUT says the GFCI isn't tripped at least (assuming its working correctly ????). If its LINE INPUT, its receptacles are working, and there's 120 on the LOAD output, so far at least so good.............

 Then as I posted above keep going one by one at each receptacle on the branch circuit served from the LOAD side of the first GFCI UNTIL you perhaps find a loose/burned/resistive connection whereby other receptacles aren't working even if you measure 120 on them    SEE NEXT PARAGRAPH

NOTE HOWEVER if there's a loose/burned/resistive wiring connection AND THERES NO LOADS NO CURRENT DRAW    you could still measure 120 volts with your meter   BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THE RECEPTACLES WOULD STILL "WORK".... Voltage Drop V = I x R but if there's no current flow there's no V = I x R drop so you still read 120 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  GOOD VOLTAGE READING ALONE doesn't necessarily mean the receptacle would "work" if you plugged a load into it. Of course absolutely no voltage indicates a full OPEN connection, but a loose/burned/resistive connection WITH NO LOAD NO CURRENT FLOW can still show 120 Volts

 A bad/loose/burned/resistive wiring connection may be at the circuit breaker, at the Neutral Buss connection, at the GFCI, at other receptacles, junction boxes or any other connections/splices.......

 You can do this it just takes time and patience and checking at each n every GFCI and downstream receptacles and at any breakers or Neutrals BOTH with no load or current (looking for a total OPEN connection)  or voltage and operation UNDER LOAD (looking for loose/burned/resistive connections) 

 

23 hours ago, Kirk W said:

The last outlet will have only 2 wires (1 black & 1 white).

NOTE FYI   actually ANY outlets, the GFCI, and including the "LAST" in the branch circuit HAVE AT A MINIMUM THREE WIRES (not 2) being:  1 Black Hot, 1 White Neutral, 1 Bare/Green Safety third wire Equipment Grounding Conductor. The LAST of the receptacles in the string served off the LOAD side of the initial GFCI would have THREE (not 2) wires.........

You got this, thanks for the updates post back your findings and any more questions. Looks like there's good agreement in all the answers above yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. IE keep checking outlets one at a time until you find the problem such as an open or a loose/burned/resistive connection   WE AGREE

You can do this, thanks for the updates, keep us posted and ask any more questions

John T  Longgggg retired n rusty power distribution design engineer and rusty so NO WARRANTY but believe this to still be true 

[Kirk W]

28 minutes ago, oldjohnt said:

NOTE FYI   actually ANY outlets, the GFCI, and including the "LAST" in the branch circuit HAVE AT A MINIMUM THREE WIRES (not 2) being:  1 Black Hot, 1 White Neutral, 1 Bare/Green Safety third wire Equipment Grounding Conductor. The LAST of the receptacles in the string served off the LOAD side of the initial GFCI would have THREE (not 2) wires.........

Did you look at the picture that I posted?   🤪

[oldjohnt]

23 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Did you look at the picture that I posted? 

Sorry Kirk, I couldn't get the link/pic posted above to come up ??? Looks like you since edited/corrected that, thanks...  However, it's NOT the picture I was correcting...The other pic you posted way up higher indicates THREE (not 2) wiring terminals, being Hot Neutral and Ground. 

The "However FYI" I posted was ONLY to help (you as well as others) and correct YOUR previous statement, I wasn't talking about the picture, but ONLY what you posted as quoted below:  

"The last outlet will have only 2 wires (1 black & 1 white)      "plus a bare ground wire." ????????

Looks like perhaps ?? you edited in "plus a bare ground wire" to correct your original statement (didn't mention bare ground prior to edit as I best recall, but hey its been a long day lol forgive me if I was mistaken) so congratulations YOU DID GOOD my friend you corrected it.

Regardless, for your, any others who may read this, and especially the Happy Wanderers information, there for safety reasons and the NEC, are THREE (NOT only 2 wires) WIRES on the last outlet, again being   1 Black Hot,,,,,1 White Neutral,,,,, 1 Bare/Green Third Wire Safety Equipment Grounding Conductor.      PLEASE USE THAT THIRD WIRE (NOT just 2) IT COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Many just don't understand just how important that THIRD wire is and why there should be 3 not just 2 wires on that last outlet, its  why per the NEC THREE (NOT just 2) wires should be present.. Don't just take my word for it consult the NEC !!!!!!!!

Hope this helps and clears up any confusion, post back any questions and I will try to help.

Be safe yall, best wishes and God Bless

John T Long retired power distribution design engineer but believe this to still be true, if not in the interest of safety and any reason the THIRD wire (NOT just 2) shouldn't be used in the last outlet in this situation, please enlighten all of us. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by oldjohnt

[Happy Wanderer]

Epilogue - I had a mobile service company come out.  Out of 9 outlets in my trailer, six were broken!  Most were broken from very sloppy installation, but the way it was wired, too many wires trying to connect to the back of the outlets, and some wires came loose.  The company replaced six outlets with better quality ones for about $680.  Luckily, I have an extended warranty and only had to pay $180.  Thanks, everyone, for your advice.  It is much appreciated!

[Kirk W]

18 minutes ago, Happy Wanderer said:

Out of 9 outlets in my trailer, six were broken!

Thank you for letting us know that the problem has been resolved! It sounds like a serious case of poor workmanship in the construction of the RV. 

[RV_]

From the problems found I am just glad nothing caught fire in the walls.

Safe Travels!

[oldjohnt]

18 hours ago, Happy Wanderer said:

Epilogue - I had a mobile service company come out.  Out of 9 outlets in my trailer, six were broken!  Most were broken from very sloppy installation, but the way it was wired, too many wires trying to connect to the back of the outlets, and some wires came loose. 

Happy, thanks for the update. INDEED faulty outlets or poor wiring or loose or improper connections (In 50 years of RV ownership Ive seen that grrrrrrrr) cans be hazardous......Glad to hear you got it fixed YOU DID GOOD.

John T  Long retired Electrical Engineer