How much use do you get from the sleeper?

[Parrformance]

https://www.expeditertrucksales.com/

[CA_Tallguy]

20 hours ago, Moresmoke said:

Take a look at Racing junk. They have a section for RV/Toters. Everything from high dollar to diy specials. You might find something that fits your needs. Or at least get some ideas.

I have been looking there a bit.  Most things I like are out of my price range and I tend to nit-pick on the other things, probably too much, thinking I could do better myself.  And I'm terrified that if I do try my own thing it will end up looking like some of the worst frankensteins on that site LOL.

17 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

In addition to a mission profile, you need to investigate the laws of the jurisdiction you wish to register in. 

I'm registering in South Dakota which I think is one of the better places to do it.  Just need 5 out of 7 amenities and a truck with a sleeper and APU can pretty much cover it.  https://sddor.seamlessdocs.com/f/1017

7 hours ago, Parrformance said:

Perhaps a bathroom could be added in the front of the box.

Once I start thinking about expanding living space beyond the sleeper, it probably makes more sense to forget about using a sleeper at all, and instead build my own "ARI custom" type 10+ foot sleeper.  Most factory sleepers are configured with the bunk crossing the back of the sleeper cab so that would have to be reconfigured to the side for a pass through, or the sleeper area reconfigured for another purpose. The good part about a factory sleeper is it would have the best, most clean integration to the driver/passenger seating, if that is important to someone, but that space is more awkwardly connected to the box behind it.  And it is good for aerodynamics, but awkward geometry since the walls are not square

I've seen some trucks where they connect a factory sleeper back through to a larger box converted to a full motorhome, and I think the truck would look better without the factory sleeper and just a bigger box conversion. 

Powerhouse Coach builds them both ways and has a lot of floor plans to consider: http://www.powerhousecoach.com/

Here's a DIY conversion with a crawl-through between the box and sleeper: https://youtu.be/Rq3bpJdTQ1Y

My conclusion from looking at the above is it would be easier to have all the living space in the big box and forget about a factory sleeper.   Do you get the longest wheelbase with the factory sleeper configured trucks?   I'm not sure if I want to start with a daycab and add my "custom" box to it, or if I would get a longer wheel base with a factory sleeper and then chop it off or do a daycab conversion.   I could also do a "fat boy" conversion to either of these or even to a straight truck.

[CA_Tallguy]

47 minutes ago, Parrformance said:

https://www.expeditertrucksales.com/

I was super excited about expediter trucks when I first saw them but the trucks that have a shower and toilet are still very rare.

This 98" sleeper has a nice kitchenette and bunk running lengthwise but still no bathroom: https://www.expeditertrucksales.com/inventory/details/2014-freightliner-cascadia-reefer-98-custom-sleeper-424.php 

The only one I can find on that site with a toilet and shower is this 120 inch sleeper unit for $232K https://www.expeditertrucksales.com/inventory/details/2019-freightliner-cascadia-ca116-white-glove-tval-reefer-aa-custom-sleeper-322.php

[Star Dreamer]

It sounds like what you are looking for is pretty rare which not only means the price will be up there but you also have to consider how wore out that unit may be. 

You have to understand that most of the HDTs were commercial OTR trucks and the driver's used the truck stop showers and jugs for the toilets. No need for a working toilet or shower in the truck. You would better to look for a smaller sleeper or day cab truck and then a Toyhauler with the garage size you need and living quarters. Both those types of units are more readily available. 

Another option would be to find a smaller class A and use an aluminum trailer to help reduce weight or get one of the smaller Super C units. 

My cousin has an older Class A and he pulls a 28' enclosed trailer with his Jeep, Golf Cart and trike in it. I do believe he had to beef up his hitch on the Class A though. 

[steiny93]

We have never used the HDT as an overnighter, the 'sleeper' is only used for the kid to ride in and have enough space to enable the HDT to be registered as a motorhome.

[CA_Tallguy]

20 hours ago, Star Dreamer said:

You have to understand that most of the HDTs were commercial OTR trucks and the driver's used the truck stop showers and jugs for the toilets. No need for a working toilet or shower in the truck.

Yes, that's the realization I'm coming to as well.  This makes a lot of sense when in motion (trucking or RV'ing), but not for camping.  So frustrating to be so close to what I need!  If only the larger sleepers with the wetbath were more common (and less expensive), it would be perfect.

20 hours ago, Star Dreamer said:

You would better to look for a smaller sleeper or day cab truck and then a Toyhauler with the garage size you need and living quarters. Both those types of units are more readily available. 

Another option would be to find a smaller class A and use an aluminum trailer to help reduce weight or get one of the smaller Super C units. 

My cousin has an older Class A and he pulls a 28' enclosed trailer with his Jeep, Golf Cart and trike in it. I do believe he had to beef up his hitch on the Class A though. 

Toyhaulers with a 16+ ft garage and 5000lb+ cargo capacity in the garage are pretty much unicorns too, unfortunately.  Here are some options in my notes:

• grand design 398M (18ft garage) - made from ~2018+ (used listed for $72k)
• weekend warrior
  • 4620M (20ft garage, 7k axles!!) - ~2017+? 24k GVWR, 15k dry weight
• ATC Game Changer - almost ideal, $150k
• Forest River Work and Play
  • 38FCR - may fit existing toad... kitchen is L shaped in the garage.  Entry door is in front of garage too. 1 small popout in the bedroom.
  • 38FKS - 17-8 garage, 1 slide for couch, bed over the nose
  • 40WCH -- 17ft garage with 2 slides!
  • 40FKS - 19-9 garage but the floor plan is the more typical "car hauler" and crowded
  • 40BTS -- only 12 or 13 ft cargo, 3 slides
  • 40WTS -- only 12 ft cargo
  • 40RLS - 16ft cargo but glass doors prob enough to allow nose of GL through?
  • 44 - huge garages.... RLS floorplan looks best
• KZ
  • venom v4020dq - interesting front living setup, 20ft garage area NOT counting WD closet.  Height in the kitchen may be not so great.  Maybe $60-70k used
  • V3916TK - approx 16ft garage
• McKenzie (Monoco) Dune Chaser
  • 34, 38CK - 20ft to first cabinet + 3.5ft into kitchen
  • 34SKS - 15-9 to cabinet, 19 into kitchen/entry door space
  • 35 and 38 SKS

And I did go through a search trying to find smaller class A's or C's with 15k towing and those are also unicorns. Most rigs GVWR are pretty closely matched to the length of the rigs.  You need to get up to a tandem axle to really increase towing.... and then suddenly you're at 42 feet in rig and adding 2 or 3 lbs in coach/chassis for every 1lb gain in towing capacity.

There are a few rare exceptions such as Dynamax RV's but generally "short" and "15k towing" are mutually exclusive.

The other thing people talk about is how ill-suited most RV's are for bumper pull due to the typically loooong overhang past the rear axle.  That acts as a lever magnifying every extra pound in hitch weight.   Towing a toad with 4 wheels down is fairly easy on the frame, but most trailers I would haul will have some heft in hitch weight and that is pretty hard on the rig, I hear.  There is a device called a "trailer toad" you can get to solve this and I've also pondered if I could retrofit a lift axle on some RV to add capacity and protection from damage.  A third option to solve this may be upgrading a rear axle and frame.

So this seems to push me towards a toterhome or showhauler type unit, either pre-owned or custom build.

One other option I'm looking at is doing some kind of 4x4 expedition vehicle on a Freightliner M2 chassis.  One way or another I should be able to get some decent towing capacity out of that chassis.   It's just not going to be as comfortable as a base vehicle as a Volvo tractor would be.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by CA_Tallguy

[Star Dreamer]

3 hours ago, CA_Tallguy said:

Yes, that's the realization I'm coming to as well.  This makes a lot of sense when in motion (trucking or RV'ing), but not for camping.  So frustrating to be so close to what I need!  If only the larger sleepers with the wetbath were more common (and less expensive), it would be perfect.

Toyhaulers with a 16+ ft garage and 5000lb+ cargo capacity in the garage are pretty much unicorns too, unfortunately.  Here are some options in my notes:

• grand design 398M (18ft garage) - made from ~2018+ (used listed for $72k)
• weekend warrior
  • 4620M (20ft garage, 7k axles!!) - ~2017+? 24k GVWR, 15k dry weight
• ATC Game Changer - almost ideal, $150k
• Forest River Work and Play
  • 38FCR - may fit existing toad... kitchen is L shaped in the garage.  Entry door is in front of garage too. 1 small popout in the bedroom.
  • 38FKS - 17-8 garage, 1 slide for couch, bed over the nose
  • 40WCH -- 17ft garage with 2 slides!
  • 40FKS - 19-9 garage but the floor plan is the more typical "car hauler" and crowded
  • 40BTS -- only 12 or 13 ft cargo, 3 slides
  • 40WTS -- only 12 ft cargo
  • 40RLS - 16ft cargo but glass doors prob enough to allow nose of GL through?
  • 44 - huge garages.... RLS floorplan looks best
• KZ
  • venom v4020dq - interesting front living setup, 20ft garage area NOT counting WD closet.  Height in the kitchen may be not so great.  Maybe $60-70k used
  • V3916TK - approx 16ft garage
• McKenzie (Monoco) Dune Chaser
  • 34, 38CK - 20ft to first cabinet + 3.5ft into kitchen
  • 34SKS - 15-9 to cabinet, 19 into kitchen/entry door space
  • 35 and 38 SKS

And I did go through a search trying to find smaller class A's or C's with 15k towing and those are also unicorns. Most rigs GVWR are pretty closely matched to the length of the rigs.  You need to get up to a tandem axle to really increase towing.... and then suddenly you're at 42 feet in rig and adding 2 or 3 lbs in coach/chassis for every 1lb gain in towing capacity.

There are a few rare exceptions such as Dynamax RV's but generally "short" and "15k towing" are mutually exclusive.

The other thing people talk about is how ill-suited most RV's are for bumper pull due to the typically loooong overhang past the rear axle.  That acts as a lever magnifying every extra pound in hitch weight.   Towing a toad with 4 wheels down is fairly easy on the frame, but most trailers I would haul will have some heft in hitch weight and that is pretty hard on the rig, I hear.  There is a device called a "trailer toad" you can get to solve this and I've also pondered if I could retrofit a lift axle on some RV to add capacity and protection from damage.  A third option to solve this may be upgrading a rear axle and frame.

So this seems to push me towards a toterhome or showhauler type unit, either pre-owned or custom build.

 

 

You can add a Dune Sport Toyhauler to your list of 5th wheels and bumper pulls. Ours has a 20'+ separate garage and handles our 5700# custom van on the back. They regularly build them for jeeps. We did triple 8k axles. They build to order so you will not see them on dealer lots. You can build an initial estimate on their website and then contact them (or they will contact you) to add custom features that you want. We have had ours since Sept of 2019.

[CA_Tallguy]

There is this Volvo 780 with a box conversion behind the sleeper....

OPPOSING SLIDES!

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2001-Volvo-780--CUSTOM-HAULER-5016269459

But as you can see in the listing, the factory sleeper really isn't well utilized space.  I'd rather just slide the main living quarters box forward and have a 5th wheel hitch behind the box... OR a longer box with a garage.  (I think this box is setup as a Harley hauler so the bed in the back goes up and down.)

[tyates007]

Came across this one today. May fit the Bill on what you are looking for. 
https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/200235683/1997-kenworth-w900

[CA_Tallguy]

38 minutes ago, tyates007 said:

Came across this one today. May fit the Bill on what you are looking for. 
https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/200235683/1997-kenworth-w900

Thanks for posting.  I have seen that one but I think I'd have gut and refurbish the whole thing, so might as well start from scratch.  And the nose on that truck is massive, eating into that 65 foot magic number for length.

I'm trying to be judicious with how every foot is used because it does matter for many reasons, even outside of legal -- from paying for storage space to what campsites I could fit into.  Even if I could realistically visit friends and families in HOA communities or fancy neighborhoods while bobtailing (prob not easy in any HDT, but a modern Volvo with clean aerodynamic lines is prob easier than a classic big rig shape).

There is nothing subtle about that Kenworth LOL 🙂 -- that's a trucker's truck for sure with those tall stacks and long hood!

[CA_Tallguy]

I did just come across this video of a Volvo 860 conversion where they added a wet bath.  Not much room left over for living and cooking/eating so this prob only makes sense for a working driver.  It seems pretty clear that nothing less than a 10 foot custom sleeper -- or a real "toterhome" build -- is going to be the kind of self contained rig I've been thinking about.   Or maybe I could add a 5 foot custom box behind an 860 with a kitchenette on one side and wet bath on the other?  Without ever even having been inside a semi truck to have any idea what I'm talking about, that may be too ambitious of a dream to consider.

 

 

 

[sandsys]

2 hours ago, tyates007 said:

Came across this one today. May fit the Bill on what you are looking for. 
https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/200235683/1997-kenworth-w900

That's impressive! Of course, I know nothing about the truck but that's a fabulous sleeper.

Linda

[Moresmoke]

Keep in mind when adding a box behind the sleeper, most truck cabs are air ride. So you have a moving cab to deal with if you want a pass through.

[CA_Tallguy]

Came across a few Volvo toterhomes....

This one is an old listing so may no longer be available, but is maybe close to what I'd like.  No factory sleeper and still has a fifth wheel.  Also has a slideout for extra space.  https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/561357350881031/?media_id=0&ref=share_attachment

This next one is 1999 Volvo with factory sleeper + a box made into a motorhome behind it.   Pretty well done.   The only thing is once again the factory sleeper really isn't put to good use.  There area just a couple bench seats in it.  I wonder if they use it as a dinette?  https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/484320195920371/

On 4/24/2021 at 8:28 PM, lenp said:

I may be wrong but I think the 65' rule is recreational pull only. You mention a stacker trailer which suggests racing which would be commercial and has different length limits.

Lenp

This is something I have been thinking about.  For a DAY CAB or SHORT sleeper, I could probably live without a pass through unless it would give me a little more space to move the drivers seat back in the cab.   Most of the pass throughs I've seen are just a opening with accordian type rubber baffle in between so they would offer no extra legroom.   For a 660 or 780+ sleeper, a pass through might be essential as I'd want to try to incorporate the sleeper space into the rest of the living space.

Edited April 30, 2021 by CA_Tallguy

[CA_Tallguy]

This unit is REALLY nicely done and sounds like they worked with a coach builder AND volvo to customize it.

The paint and body appearance make it feel a lot less imposing as it feels more like a traditional/typical/modern RV

Seems pretty clear that they started with a day cab, right?

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by CA_Tallguy