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i never said humans are any good. as a commercial truck driver for 40 years. i can say that many people that think they know how to drive are just fools 

just to me no computer made can replace a competent human driver. as a computer can only do what it has been programed to do. nothing more.

humans can do more.

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The Level 5 autonomous vehicle systems currently in development "learn" new responses to situations as they develop, similar to the way humans do. It's not likely AI driving systems will ever reach a 100% safety level, but reaching a significantly higher safety level than human drivers will be a major advancement in life saving technology. The closest to total vehicle safety that can be achieved, I believe, is when all vehicles are automated and able to communicate with each other. Hardware and software failures will always be a factor preventing 100% safety though. Cutting the ~1.35 million annual vehicle accident deaths worldwide in half would be a huge advancement.

Edited by Dutch_12078
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Rat, I own the same model and specc'd car they crashed in. They also had only autopilot on their two motor AWD Long Range Model Y. The article was BS in that they are trying to say it was Tesla's fault with a failure of the autopilot? and apparently the reporter, like many, has no clue of the differences in the Tesla "Autopilot" which was standard on mine, and "Full Autonomous" which costs an additional $6-$8k to reprogram into the Tesla. All Tesla cars have the cameras and hardware for Full Autonomous mode. Its is the software and ongoing support you pay for.

Anyway the Autopilot feature (AP) only keeps you in the center of the lane, slows down and does starting and stopping from highway traffic slowdowns, start ups, and stops in traffic.  This guy was showing off to his older buddy and they got inside, drove off and the driver owner got in the other seat so one person was in the back seat, and the other in the passenger seat, no one was in the driver seat. My Tesla folks went over all the safety features (and I had already watched videos) and that your hands must be on the steering wheel or it shuts off Autopilot, handing control back to the driver. All this was made clear when I bought mine. I am, if anything, more alert in AP than when I am in full control. Not worried just aware.

If that article was about a shooting accident it would be blaming Remington for a guy with an 870 shotgun who "forgot" a shell was in the chamber and shot his buddy because he did not know how to fully clear it.

Believe me, Tesla is not fooling someone into thinking AP can do FA driving. I would suggest the author go test drive a Tesla, put it in AP and see what happens when you let go of the wheel for more than a few moments. Many American and import cars have the same collision avoidance and lane keeping autopilot on them. My 2019 Subaru Forester has it in it but not great at lane keeping. But the "Fozzie" is also great in stop and go traffic using the adaptive cruise control.

 

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On 5/5/2021 at 8:34 AM, Dutch_12078 said:

The Level 5 autonomous vehicle systems currently in development "learn" new responses to situations as they develop, similar to the way humans do. It's not likely AI driving systems will ever reach a 100% safety level, but reaching a significantly higher safety level than human drivers will be a major advancement in life saving technology.

I don't think that there is any doubt that we will see more companies develop that capability. Parts of it are available now. Even my 2019 VW will apply the brakes if I wait too long to do so and warns me to back off before that. Many cars have lane following equipment and adaptive cruise control. Those are certainly steps in that direction. There is also a company testing self driving trucks and Uber is doing the same for cars. I am just as confident that we will see the hybrid and electric cars take more and more of the market and while it isn't here yet, I suspect that electric trucks and RVs are not all that far away. 

I have lived long enough to have already seen many things come into common use that my parents and grandparents would have laughed at and considered to be impossible. In the late 1800's Jules Verne put it very clearly. "Science, my lad, is made up of mistakes, but they are mistakes which it is useful to make, because they lead little by little to the truth."

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11 hours ago, Kirk W said:

I don't think that there is any doubt that we will see more companies develop that capability. Parts of it are available now. Even my 2019 VW will apply the brakes if I wait too long to do so and warns me to back off before that. Many cars have lane following equipment and adaptive cruise control. Those are certainly steps in that direction. There is also a company testing self driving trucks and Uber is doing the same for cars. I am just as confident that we will see the hybrid and electric cars take more and more of the market and while it isn't here yet, I suspect that electric trucks and RVs are not all that far away. 

I have lived long enough to have already seen many things come into common use that my parents and grandparents would have laughed at and considered to be impossible. In the late 1800's Jules Verne put it very clearly. "Science, my lad, is made up of mistakes, but they are mistakes which it is useful to make, because they lead little by little to the truth."

I agree, Kirk... You and I grew up in an age when Dick Tracy's "wrist radio" was just wishful thinking, and now the Jetson's futuristic life doesn't even seem all that far fetched any more.

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BTW Kirk, why do you zero in on Tesla fires and no other fires of gas or diesel, when the real story is like that guy who drove into an 18 wheeler sleeping with beta full Autonomous ON? In other words are you concerned with actual danger and warning others or just looking to single out any Tesla fire. How are all missing these?

"Automakers seeking to forge ahead in the electric vehicle market have been hitting a bump in the road recently: batteries keep catching fire.

At the end of September, BMW initiated a recall in the United States of 10 different BMW and Mini plug-in hybrid models because of a risk of fire caused by debris that may have gotten into battery cells during manufacturing. Then, in early October, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into reports of apparently spontaneous battery fires in Chevrolet Bolt EVs. GM says it is cooperating with the investigation.
A few days later, Hyundai announced that it was recalling 6,700 Kona Electric SUVs in the United States, among about 75,000 of that model to be recalled worldwide, after it had received numerous reports of vehicles catching fire while parked.
 
Tesla faced this last year after two highly publicized battery fires, which spurred it to update its vehicle software. Years earlier, after a car fire caused by battery damage from road debris, Tesla added plates underneath its cars to better protect the batteries."
Tesla is not the problem.

If you are concerned about fire danger how did you miss the current recalls and lawsuits and deaths from the Kia and Hyundai fires which total more than 276 fires in 44 states?????

Hyundai and Kia owners are actually being told not to park affected models in the garage or near structures until repairs are made and made correctly as they are catching fire when parked with no key in the ignition.

"By: Associated Press

Posted at 9:56 PM, May 04, 2021
and last updated 3:14 AM, May 05, 2021

DETROIT (AP) — — Hyundai is recalling over 390,000 vehicles in the U.S. and Canada for problems that can cause engine fires.

In one recall, owners are being told to park outdoors until repairs are made. That recall covers more than 203,000 Santa Fe Sport SUVs from 2013 through 2015.

Some are being recalled a second time. Brake fluid can leak into a brake computer, causing an electrical short that can lead to fires.

Here is another news station doing a four part report with video and pictures from ABC on the many Kia/Hyundai fires.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/up-in-flames#vidJump

Tesla vehicles just don't catch fire sitting still except for two shorts at chargers as this next report points out:

"The accident follows several instances of highly publicized fires in Tesla vehicles. A few Tesla Model S caught on fire in 2013, but they happened after high-speed accidents and NHTSA ruled that there was no evidence of vehicle safety defect or noncompliance with federal safety standards." Source: https://electrek.co/2017/03/04/tesla-model-s-fire-shanghai/

"It is nice that it takes some sort of impact in most all cases for Tesla to burn. A frightening fact that I have learned is that most gasoline car fires start with zero warning. The car is just driving along, or worse, parked in a home's garage at night as the owners are sleeping. In this case the entire home burns with occupants inside. How many ICE fires per year? Over 100,000! I am glad all three cars in our family are EV's. No way if they were gas would I ever leave one in the garage overnight."

Here is the complete list of Tesla fires, and what happened in a few words in each case from 2013-2018: 

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/11/a-list-of-tesla-car-fires-since-2013/

As you can see it was usually crazy driving whether the Mexican guy I remember well in Mexico when a guy crashed his through a concrete wall (not brick but concrete) at well over 100 miles an hour if I remember correctly, and survived just fine, or the guy sleeping in his Tesla at high speed! Reminds of when "Good Ol Boys" Holler out "Hey Y'all watch this!" 

So in the interest of safety I will put this KIa Hyundai and other Electric vehicles by other companies warning in another thread of its own, so folks know the dangers of having Kia and Hyundai vehicles today as well as the Bolts etc. in the news stories above.

Safe Travels!

 

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