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6 minutes ago, bigjim said:

As much as I can see your point I also recognize how we still don't know for sure all the the ins and outs of this disease  so I don't take for granted that it can't be passed. Plus the sucker keeps mutating which could change the possibility of infecting others. Is it worth the risk if we are starting to beat it down to let it up again.   

Besides what I was taught as a Marine I learned on the street not to give up the upper hand without a fight. When I was about 15 a guy with an iron bar attacked me and a buddy. He disabled my buddy by surprised and hurt me pretty good but I got the best of him and had him down and I didn't let him up until the help arrived.  He was really lucky I didn't do more damage as in my mind he did not deserve any breaks but I did make sure he couldn't hurt anyone else.   I had to hold him in a headlock for at least 20 minutes until help arrived.

If you find yourself in a fair fight you are using the wrong tactics 😁

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15 minutes ago, RV_ said:

Vaccinated people would almost certainly be able to have it and not know it if they are in that few days when they have no symptoms.

There was a discussion of this issue on the local TV news last night that was interesting too. The video was of a group discussion and it included both the head of TX dept. of health, and the chief epidemiologist of Parkland Hospital, Dallas. In addition to what you stated they also indicated that it is believed possible that you could inhale the virus and it may survive in your respiratory system long enough for you to then pass it to someone not vaccinated. They said that it looks to survive in a respiratory system for as long as several hours. Another concern is that because the vaccine is not 100%, vaccinated people could contract the virus but because they have been vaccinated, remain asymptomatic and so spread it to others for a couple of weeks, never knowing that they have it. 

More than anything else, they emphasized that because of the danger brought about by covid-19 and it's variants, the recommended course of action is the most conservative until more is learned about it. It was pointed out that most studies have been directed toward containment and control, with little detail about it known yet. 

Edited by Kirk W
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FWIW there is no intention on the Australian government mandating vaccination. Nor will they entertain the thought of any sort of a vaccination ID. But as for flying etc etc. That's a different matter. A commercial enterprise, ie airlines, can set their own rules for flying. QANTAS has already proposed a no jab no fly rule on international flights when they restart.

So technically any business can set their own rules for entering their premises. A commercial decision is way different from a government mandated rule. I seem to recall a funny little man with a mustachio in Germany who decided to identify certain folks with a tattoo. When you start 'discriminating' certain folks you are at the top of a very very slippery slope.

But the USA already has an ID system that everyone accepts. It's called the Social Security Number. So maybe, just maybe when you got your shot it was recorded along with your SSN. Big brother!!!! Just being the devils advocate.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Big Rick said:

If the vaccine does not work, why get it? 
They push the vaccine as the end all, but then say it doesn’t work.  SMH

What credible source says it doesn't work?   I see/hear a certain element say that but I don't see them as legitimate and without an agenda to make that prouncation.  Almost all information I read/see/hear says it is very legitimate but not without some issues.  I guess Trump thought it works since him, his wife and I most if not all his children got vaccinated.    IMHO

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1 minute ago, bigjim said:

What credible source says it doesn't work?   I see/hear a certain element say that but I don't see them as legitimate and without an agenda to make that prouncation.  Almost all information I read/see/hear says it is very legitimate but not without some issues.  I guess Trump thought it works since him, his wife and I most if not all his children got vaccinated.    IMHO

Most credible sources say the vaccines work within limits. No vaccine that I am aware of is 100% effective. If there are folks that refuse a vaccine I see that as their choice and that Darwin then should deal the cards. 

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1 hour ago, Kirk W said:

There was a discussion of this issue on the local TV news last night that was interesting too. The video was of a group discussion and it included both the head of TX dept. of health, and the chief epidemiologist of Parkland Hospital, Dallas. In addition to what you stated they also indicated that it is believed possible that you could inhale the virus and it may survive in your respiratory system long enough for you to then pass it to someone not vaccinated. They said that it looks to survive in a respiratory system for as long as several hours. Another concern is that because the vaccine is not 100%, vaccinated people could contract the virus but because they have been vaccinated, remain asymptomatic and so spread it to others for a couple of weeks, never knowing that they have it. 

More than anything else, they emphasized that because of the danger brought about by covid-19 and it's variants, the recommended course of action is the most conservative until more is learned about it. It was pointed out that most studies have been directed toward containment and control, with little detail about it known yet. 

Yep, we should all be pulling on the same end of the rope.

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10 minutes ago, bigjim said:

What credible source says it doesn't work?   I see/hear a certain element say that but I don't see them as legitimate and without an agenda to make that prouncation.  Almost all information I read/see/hear says it is very legitimate but not without some issues.  I guess Trump thought it works since him, his wife and I most if not all his children got vaccinated.    IMHO

Not at all. Either it protects you or it doesn’t. If it protects you then you do not need a mask or social distancing. If it doesn’t protect you what is the poison getting the vaccine?

 

The problem is the experts in charge seem to not have a clue!

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2 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

Either it protects you or it doesn’t.

Very little in life is completely black or white. It has been stated over and over that none of them are 100% and that same thing is true for all vaccines that I know of. 

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2 hours ago, Big Rick said:

If you are vaccinated and don’t have and can’t get COVID, how the heck is wearing a mask protection for someone else? Makes no sense

Because you can still GET the virus, the vaccinations aren't 100%, just like every other vaccine.  There are always a few people who will still get the virus because their immune system doesn't operate at peak efficiency, but if you do get it the course of the disease will be mild/moderate and so far no one has died from the virus who has had the vaccine.   Also, even if you don't become ill, it is still possible that you can be infected and might pass it one - we just don't know the much about the disease yet to be sure.    So you are still wearing the mask to protect yourself and to protect others.   

Quote

If the vaccine does not work, why get it? 
They push the vaccine as the end all, but then say it doesn’t work.  SMH

Again nothing is 100% all the time in real life.  You can still get it, but so far, no one has died who has been vaccinated.

30 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

Not at all. Either it protects you or it doesn’t. If it protects you then you do not need a mask or social distancing. If it doesn’t protect you what is the poison getting the vaccine?

Now you are just being argumentative.   Did you get a Polio vaccination, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, etc?  NONE of those are 100% for every single person.   And all can fade over time.   

Edited by Barbaraok
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Will you need proof of vaccination in the future anytime you are admitted to hospital? Elective surgery? I have no idea but its one area where it may be mandated. Just think out loud.

 

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1 hour ago, bruce t said:

Will you need proof of vaccination in the  future anytime you are admitted to hospital? Elective surgery? I have no idea but its one area where it may be mandated. Just think out loud.

 

I have an in person VA visit next week.  I guess I will find out if they will want to see it.  Of course it is the same VA that gave me that gave me the shots so it should be in my records. Your thinking makes sense.

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13 hours ago, bruce t said:

Will you need proof of vaccination in the future anytime you are admitted to hospital? Elective surgery? I have no idea but its one area where it may be mandated. Just think out loud.

 

Three days prior to two different minor procedures at our local hospital, they required a Covid 19 test, and isolation from the test date to entering the hospital.  One of the visits was a month after my second Moderna vaccination, so I don't believe they will depend on vaccination proof to replace the test.

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1 minute ago, vermilye said:

Three days prior to two different minor procedures at our local hospital, they required a Covid 19 test, and isolation from the test date to entering the hospital.  One of the visits was a month after my second Moderna vaccination, so I don't believe they will depend on vaccination proof to replace the test.

At least until they get a better idea of how virus can or can't be transmitted after one is fully vaccinated, plus whether it is effective against all variants and the positivity rate is way under 5%.   Probably be next fall.

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I am planning a month-long trip to the UK next spring, and having been vaccinated will likely make it a lot easier to fly there and travel while there.  No one knows what the UK laws will be by then regarding foreign nationals entering their country, but I suspect being fully vaccinated will be an advantage.

And, by the way, I had shingles in Fall 2019.  However, since I had had the original shingles vaccine a few years earlier, my blisters were very tiny (1 mm in diameter) and the whole bout lasted only 3 weeks instead of the usual 6 months with blueberry-sized (1 cm) blisters.  I have since had the newer two-dose vaccine. 

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8 minutes ago, Solo18 said:

I have since had the newer two-dose vaccine. 

I have not had shingles, but did get the older vaccine after watching a friend go through a difficult case. At my doctor's strong suggestion, I have now had the recent 2 shot Shingrex as well. 

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24 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

I have not had shingles, but did get the older vaccine after watching a friend go through a difficult case. At my doctor's strong suggestion, I have now had the recent 2 shot Shingrex as well. 

I was never able to take the original Shingles shot due a medication conflict. Now I can take the Shingrix and have taken one shot. I need to schedule the second before we hit the road for the summer. 

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On 3/30/2021 at 7:34 PM, NamMedevac 70 said:

Sounds like impending doom to me RV.  I still have my yellow shot and health cards from all my years of overseas work and travels plus blank ones never filled out given to me by Singapore health official or maybe  embassy staff.  The shot card was compact and easy to carry inside the passport. Common sense there folks.

I Will not be viewing additional comments.  Cheers and Jeers

"Starblazer Starblazer why is your star so bright" said one GS pilot to another in Nam 1970.

https://www.facebook.com/Pilot-Bill-Perkins-Exotic-Living-And-Travels-in-Far-East-and-SE-Asia-1425108021122523

227-capt-perkins-with-bell-212-evergreen-in-tokyo(1).jpg.b468bf06502d48667aa55538e78bedef.jpg

 

32 minutes ago, NamMedevac 70 said:

Between the VA and private doctors/hospitals I have had every vaccine shot recommended (5 or 6) within past 3 years.  Awaiting my Pfizer shot soon.

Unable to see future replies.  Happy Camping to all

Former Acct & SEC CFP

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=2380606625574842&set=a.2111685582466949

Two "refusals" to see future replies, all in ONE thread. LOL. Gotta wonder when the Admins will follow their own Rule #6?

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23 hours ago, bruce t said:

Will you need proof of vaccination in the future anytime you are admitted to hospital? Elective surgery? I have no idea but its one area where it may be mandated. Just think out loud.

 

I have gall bladdeer Surgery April 9, April 5 I must get a COVID19 test then quarantine until I go to hospital April 9. I had both Moderna shots in January. This morning the hospital pre-admission desk called and told me to bring my vaccine card.

To those questioning vaccine protection; today it was announced the Pfizer-BioNtech vaccine is over 90% effective at preventing a serious infection of COVID19.

Receiving both Moderna shots are 90% effective at preventing a serious infection of COVID19.

I cannot remember the % effectiveness of the J&J or other vaccines.

Edited by Ray,IN
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There needs to be a reality check on covid-19 and the vaccines. It's not much over a year since this crisis became the crisis that it has panned out to be. In that time researches have scrambled to understand the virus and developed vaccines. This has never happened before. Never such a serious and wide spread viruses. Never such a fast response from vaccine companies. We all need to cut them all some slack. There is bound to be some hiccups. To be some confusion and conflict of interest. Including politicians and a media frenzy looking for, or inventing, the next headline. 

One thing we have learnt more than anything else is the true nature of humans capability to meet a crisis. But sadly it has also shown the bad side of human nature. The bickering about who's facts are the real facts. Bickering over who said what and who promised what. Political point scoring. 

It takes longer to build a new house than it has to research, developed, test, manufacture, distribute and administer the vaccine. And yes there have been stuff ups. But aren't you glad they have something to stuff up rather than nothing to offer?

Just a reality check before anyone decides to complain about something relatively trivial.

 

 

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I also took a photo of my vaccine card. Also took a photo of the receipt from Walgreens where I received the one shot vaccine which is listed on the receipt.

I do not agree with requiring a national vaccine passport. If businesses or whomever require it on their own then we will all see how the market handles that in terms of loosing or gaining business.

My wife does not trust the vaccine. I do, having received all kinds of shots in the Army without ever asking what they were.  She does not wear a mask as much as I do. I suspect it could be common within a family that one is more concerned with infection than the other. I would think even within a family one could get sick despite how they individually handle safety in public.

Forever I will remember the first day I ventured out after the "mandatory" stay at home orders to reduce the numbers going to the hospital. First time in my life I felt like a criminal when I made that trip to the store after two weeks.  Felt like for the first time in my life I could not fight for my freedom, having spent 30 years in law enforcement and 6 years in the army. I will never have that feeling again!  I'm thankful local law enforcement acting more reasonably than many politicians have. Restricting someone's freedom is a serious matter. I'm glad law enforcement refused to enforce the executives branches so called authority to limit freedom without input from the legislative branch.

 

 

Edited by mds1
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On 4/1/2021 at 8:12 PM, bruce t said:

 

It takes longer to build a new house than it has to research, developed, test, manufacture, distribute and administer the vaccine. And yes there have been stuff ups. But aren't you glad they have something to stuff up rather than nothing to offer?

Just a reality check before anyone decides to complain about something relatively trivial.

 

 

Actually Bruce, the research work was going on a lot longer than you realize, started with the SARS virus years ago, and since that is also a corona virus, it was easy to build upon it once they had the genome.   Plus 'Crisper' has made a huge difference in how they can identify and work with viruses, and the mRNA based vaccines are going to make a huge difference in virology in the years to come.   

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On 4/1/2021 at 9:12 PM, bruce t said:

One thing we have learnt more than anything else is the true nature of humans capability to meet a crisis. But sadly it has also shown the bad side of human nature. The bickering about who's facts are the real facts.

Some of us have met it, some of us have ignored it. I have a pretty good idea of how things got that way.  Not that there haven't been detractors of almost everything in the past, it just seems like the last 4 years were particularly worse.

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On 4/1/2021 at 9:12 PM, bruce t said:

One thing we have learnt more than anything else is the true nature of humans capability to meet a crisis. But sadly it has also shown the bad side of human nature. The bickering about who's facts are the real facts. Bickering over who said what and who promised what. Political point scoring. 

It takes longer to build a new house than it has to research, developed, test, manufacture, distribute and administer the vaccine. And yes there have been stuff ups. But aren't you glad they have something to stuff up rather than nothing to offer?

Just a reality check before anyone decides to complain about something relatively trivial.

 

 

Amen Bruce, I am glad we have what we in the military called a Charlie Foxtrot, and you folks in Oz call a stuff up, because the vast and overwhelming experience is positive.

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