60 amp?

[GlennWest]

The Schneider 6800 inverter/charger I intend to use calls for a 60 amp breaker on input side. So I assume it will produce max power with 60 amps and be less with 50 amps. 6800 figures at 110v to 56 amps. So my thinking is I would benefit at my property to install a 60 amp vs 50 amp. Know I would have to use an adapter. Thoughts.

[Lou Schneider]

The requirement is for a 60 amp breaker on the output side, not the input, to handle the 12,000 watt one minute surge the inverter can deliver.

If you go to a 60 amp breaker on the supply side you'll also have to replace the standard 50 amp plug with something larger.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Lou Schneider

[oldjohnt]

 

1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

So my thinking is I would benefit at my property to install a 60 amp vs 50 amp

      NEVER USE A 60 AMP CIRCUIT BREAKER IF THE WIRE IS ONLY RATED FOR 50 AMPS

    If the wire that's being protected by the breaker (that's its job) is rated for 60 amps, a 60 amp breaker is okay. WHAT SIZE/RATING IS THE WIRE ??????????????

  Glenn, here's how it works or at least how it was explained to me in NEC seminars when I was a practicing power distribution design engineer NOTE HOWEVER I cant say if this is still true today or if the codes are the same SO NO WARRANTY. I will however advise  NOT DO WHAT I OR OTHERS MAY SAY IF IT DISAGREES WITH THE MANUFACTURER OR ANY WARRANTY !!!!!!!!!! Consult the manual NOT me lol

 1) I FIRST computed the Maximum Continuous Current

 2) I sized the conductors to have a MINIMUM ampacity of 125% of the MCC

 3) I sized the Overcurrent Protection Device TO MATCH AND PROTECT THE CONDUCTORS. The appliance/device often has its own thermal protection, the breaker is primarily designed to protect the wire used moreso then the appliance, even if sure it can both to some degree.

 4) Similar if the Overcurrent Protection Device is a Thermal Magnetic Circuit Breaker and its say 60 amps to protect 60 amp conductors, that in my example above would be used in a circuit that's drawing a max 80% of 60 or 48 Amps Continuous. The thing is if a Thermal Magnetic Breaker passes a continuous 48 amps it will work all day and night and NOT trip out on the thermal side HOWEVER if you were to pull perhaps (depends on breaker design and age etc) say somewhere around 57 amps or more (still under its 60 rating) it can heat up enough to trip......    THATS WHY IN OUR DESIGNS A 60 AMP BREAKER WOULD BE USED TO PROTETC 60 AMP WIRE IN A CIRCUIT THATS NOT CONTINUALLY DRAWING MUCH OVER 48 AMPS

 Soooooooo if the manual says 60 I suggest 60.....If it says 50 ESPECIALLY IF THE WIRE IS ONLY 50 AMP RATED I would NOT use a 60 amp breaker

 John T Longggggggggg retired n rusty so NO warranty codes change and/or the manufacturer may say different so do as they say

[GlennWest]

But isn't wire same rating same on 50 and 60. All I read is #6.

[oldjohnt]

4 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

But isn't wire same rating same on 50 and 60. All I read is #6.

  Sorry Glenn I don't have the equipment, the manual or any specs.  In 50 Amp RV power cords No 6 wire is used as its rated for 50 amps, and if 50 amp rated wire is that which is to be protected by a circuit breaker, I would NOT use a 60 amp breaker......But thats just me and what I was taught,  I cant speak to what you have or any  perhaps changed codes.........

 Hope you find the correct answer, the above is the best I have to offer

 John T

 

[D&J]

14 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

But isn't wire same rating same on 50 and 60. All I read is #6.

Yes #6 is good for 60 amp.

Denny

Edited March 6, 2021 by D&J

[GlennWest]

2 hours ago, Lou Schneider said:

The requirement is for a 60 amp breaker on the output side, not the input, to handle the 12,000 watt one minute surge the inverter can deliver.

If you go to a 60 amp breaker on the supply side you'll also have to replace the standard 50 amp plug with something larger.

Based on what your stated it would benefit me to change my panel main then. But I never see pulling that out of it. 12000 watts is huge in an rv. Just reread manual and states 60 amp feed to inverter also. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by GlennWest

[oldjohnt]

1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

But I never see pulling that out of it. 12000 watts is huge in an rv

I have to agree Glenn. To draw that much you would have to be like powering everything (including two AC's) all at once PLUS other high power appliances YIKES 12,000 watts all at once ???? Ive not seen an RV that was factory equipped with 60 amp service ??????????  As I well noted before, don't use a 60 amp breaker to protect wire rated for ONLY 50 Amps...

PS those non electricians or ones who haven't studied and worked with the NEC likely do not realize a wires ampacity IS NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL, it depends on MANY factors including but not limited to:

Class and type of Insulation,,,,,,,,,If theres a single conductor in free air,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If the conductor is enclosed or jacketed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If enclosed how many conductors in what size of conduit,,,,,,,,,,etc etc. the power cords used in typical 50 Amp RV's use No 6 wire rated at 50 amps, its jacketed remember...

Best wishes

John T  Long retired n rusty power engineer so NO warranty, consult the manufacturer and the NEC

[GlennWest]

John, I am considering not using the factory cable. To use it, I would have to pull out of box connect extra cable to it. Teton didn't leave any scalk in it. Likely be much simpler to run new cable. 

[Ray,IN]

On 3/6/2021 at 4:43 PM, GlennWest said:

Based on what your stated it would benefit me to change my panel main then. But I never see pulling that out of it. 12000 watts is huge in an rv. Just reread manual and states 60 amp feed to inverter also. 

An actual 12,000 watt draw is theoretical; in real-time use everything  drawing electrical power must be perfectly balanced between both legs of the power supply. I cannot envision that happening outside of an electric lab.

[GlennWest]

I can run entire Teton on 30 amp if careful. These mini splits really sip electricity