Texas power situation

[Kirk W]

3 hours ago, D&J said:

Texas buys power from Nebraska and pays Kansas and Oklahoma for the use of their lines to transport it.

Nebraska governor criticizes need for rolling blackouts

dateline, February 17, 2021

[hemsteadc]

21 minutes ago, bruce t said:

100 year storms! How does anyone know this is a once in 100 years? .... The term is used to 'exaggerate" the current event/s.

Yes, it's another leftie  science conspiracy designed to scare people.

Edited February 19, 2021 by hemsteadc

[TXiceman]

20 minutes ago, hemsteadc said:

Yes, it's another leftie  science conspiracy designed to scare people.

Sounds more like from the other side.

ha ha

Ken

[bigjim]

56 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Were there mass power shortages in 1983

I was there in that time period but I don't remember outages this bad for sure. And I am reasonably certain this was before ERCOT and the stand alone was in place.

[Barbaraok]

Bruce, in this case I think there was a winter in ~1903 where the temperatures were as cold and reached the RGV.  Of course, very few people so the severity is harder to measure - - indoor plumbing and electricity weren't wide spread.

Pandemic, 1918-1922 is similar to this years - beyond most people's memory and therefore people think it was "tales like grandparents tell" and don't learn from history.

NOT designing for at least a 100 yr event seems foolhardy given what we have seen in the past decades.   And it isn't just the design, it is also MAINTENANCE and if there is no regulations, maintenance is through by the wayside.   

[Kirk W]

6 minutes ago, bigjim said:

And I am reasonably certain this was before ERCOT and the stand alone was in place.

Your quote was from my quote, and not what I said, as I was not in Texas. As to ERCOT, I did a search online and found this information.

Quote

ERCOT was formed in 1970, in the wake of a major blackout in the Northeast in November 1965, and it was tasked with managing grid reliability in accordance with national standards. Note that Texas is not all on this same power grid. El Paso is on another grid, as is the upper Panhandle and a chunk of East Texas.

 

[bigjim]

I did understand you were not there and I know I was but beyond that I don't make any guarntee on this one. I am wondering if  the parts of etex are mostly covered by SWEPCO? You are definitly better at researching  stuff than I am.  If I am incorrect I am happy to be corrected.

Edited February 20, 2021 by bigjim

[bruce t]

Barbarok I have no issues with terminology but rather how it is used. Too many folks throw terms around without giving them any real thought. Or understanding of what they mean. And this applies to all sides of the argument.

We ALL have to keep in mind what a power outage of any kind means in this age of high technology. In 1900 most folks would have thrown another log on the fire or gone to bed. Now we want to recharge our phone/s. Play on the internet. Keep the central heating on and the freezer frozen. The whole power outage just amplifies how dependent we have all become on a constant power supply. And maybe that's the issue. Us and not the network!!!

[GlennWest]

So many people now to all of us burn wood. Run out. 

[bobsallyh]

BARBARAOK, I remember Three Mile Island very well. We lived about 55 miles from it. Working for the telephone company, I had the most overtime for several weeks in my 34 year career.

[RV_]

I believe lots of folks may now be seeing what I meant when I said we were leaving the South for good. As the weather becomes more erratic we may find Southern temperatures so hot in the summer that it kills even more than cold. And more Southern winters with severe cold like this year. I had never seen 110 degree temps in summer where we were in Louisiana until the last couple of years there. The crazy part is that the summers are hotter and the winters colder today. Storms more severe, and droughts moving into new areas do not bode well for the unprepared. We had a 25kw auto-switched NG generator powered by a water cooled Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engine in Louisiana. Past winters there we could have done fine as we still had our ski suits and clothing. But the heat! If the power or A/C and generator failed there's nothing to be done. Especially in that humidity.

But I have not been in -18 degree F weather at all until last weekend when it hit that here, not even in Germany when assigned there Jan 1990 - Jan 1997. Nor when we lived here 1978-1981. If I have my own generator I can run ceramic heaters if the gas failed and run the A/C as needed. That is scheduled for this coming spring.

[sheldons65]

This is a good article and the original source. From the Texas Railroad Commission. It’s a powerful body in Texas that deals with more than just railroads.
 

https://www.rrc.state.tx.us/news/021921-christian-spending-priorities/

[Barbaraok]

Railroads now managed by TxDOT.   Railroad Commission is oil and gas.

[RV_]

I read it. When I was building post frame steel buildings in Texas I ran into the RR Commission for pipelines old and new whenever we were building near one. I am glad the one we hit was old and not in use!

Sheldon that article was more a coulda, woulda, shoulda, framed to blame renewables for their own poor planning. It isn't either/or. He had bias.

For those who think everything is theoretical or not enough here are some battery backups designed to avert some of the problems Texans are seeing now:

Excerpt:

"It’s a shame the second wave of big batteries about to join Australia’s main grid did not come with Elon Musk’s 100-day-or-its-free promise. Had they done so, the country might have been about to benefit from a lot of free storage!

The Tesla big battery at Hornsdale forged its own path by landing a $4 million-a-year contract with the South Australia government to provide emergency back-up and grid security, and also carved a profitable niche in the local frequency and ancillary services market, as well as making some money arbitraging the market by charging at low prices and selling at high.

The juiciest part of the FCAS market has now been removed, ironically because the presence of the battery – and its speed, accuracy and versatility – meant that AEMO could ditch a grid constraint that had been outrageously gamed by the big gas generators before the arrival of battery.

Stiel suggests a new category that encompasses battery storage – its limitations and opportunities – should be developed. “I think the rules need to be changed there – and introduce new classifications to unlock this value.”

That’s not an isolated gripe. Tesla has pointed out that many of its services – super-fast and accurate response to system faults that have been hailed by the market operator – don’t actually get rewarded under the current market structure."

Source: https://reneweconomy.com.au/second-wave-of-big-batteries-about-to-join-australias-main-grid-39973/

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by RV_

[D&J]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Nebraska governor criticizes need for rolling blackouts

dateline, February 17, 2021

Nebraska has two power suppliers one is OPPD and NPPD, OPPD was selling power NPPD came up short. They are both public power suppliers. I know a guy that works at the OPPD gas plant and they where selling power why it didn't go to NPPD hard to say OPPD may have already committed somewhere else before NPPD came up short.

Denny

Edited February 20, 2021 by D&J

[bruce t]

RV you need to be very careful with what you read.

First  the Teslar batteries are all subject to confidentiality agreements. No one knows what they cost. Not even the federal government. So the figures in the report come from where? Second the South Australian Teslar battery with last approximately 20 minutes. Third South Australia has just 1.7million population. Fourth the Teslar batteries are backed up with diesel generators. Fifth. South Australia gets its bulk power via interstate connectors from coal power. South Australia is installing gas fired power after blowing up their coal fired power station in Port August. And finally South Australia has almost the highest power costs in the world.

The report is a self interest one.

Australia is way ahead of most countries when it comes to green energy. The governments heavily subsidizes green power. Most of the green energy projects are owned/run by foreign interests. They make money out of the subsidies. China makes the money providing the solar panels and wind towers.

South Australia's green experiment means they have frequent blackouts. Not just local blackouts. Recently the weather failed the wind and solar farms. One inter connector from Victoria failed and the lights went out in ALL of South Australia. My wife comes from South Australia and her family still lives there. They give up resetting any electric clocks they have because of power blackouts.

The state of Victoria closed the biggest coal fired powers station and the government said that power bills would go up by no more than $0.30 per quarter. They doubled. Thousands of homes have been cut off from power because they no longer can afford electricity. Victoria has banned all exploration of any fossil fuel.

Australia is the biggest coal exporter in the world. Australian coal keeps power cheap in countries such as China, Japan, South Korea to name just a few. Yet in Australia coal fired power stations are being closed down and heavy industry along with it. Green power is so expensive that it is destroying Australia industry.

So a warning to anyone that thinks green is the future. Just look at how the green movement is killing the Australian economy. You have been warned.

 

[sheldons65]

 

12 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Railroads now managed by TxDOT.   Railroad Commission is oil and gas.

 

Yes you are right. I was just trying to explain all that but you did an expert job of breaking it into something easy to understand. Thanks!

Edited February 20, 2021 by sheldons65

[sheldons65]

 

12 hours ago, RV_ said:

Sheldon that article was more a coulda, woulda, shoulda, framed to blame renewables for their own poor planning. It isn't either/or. He had bias.

Check this out.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by sheldons65

[GlennWest]

13 hours ago, RV_ said:

I believe lots of folks may now be seeing what I meant when I said we were leaving the South for good. As the weather becomes more erratic we may find Southern temperatures so hot in the summer that it kills even more than cold. And more Southern winters with severe cold like this year. I had never seen 110 degree temps in summer where we were in Louisiana until the last couple of years there. The crazy part is that the summers are hotter and the winters colder today. Storms more severe, and droughts moving into new areas do not bode well for the unprepared. We had a 25kw auto-switched NG generator powered by a water cooled Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engine in Louisiana. Past winters there we could have done fine as we still had our ski suits and clothing. But the heat! If the power or A/C and generator failed there's nothing to be done. Especially in that humidity.

But I have not been in -18 degree F weather at all until last weekend when it hit that here, not even in Germany when assigned there Jan 1990 - Jan 1997. Nor when we lived here 1978-1981. If I have my own generator I can run ceramic heaters if the gas failed and run the A/C as needed. That is scheduled for this coming spring.

Different strokes for different folks. I can't stand Colorados winters. I love spring and summer months there. But I can put up the heat here in south Texas louisiana. Plan on retiring here in Huntsville. 

[Velos]

One size never fits all and all things in moderation; nothing can be solved in 280 characters. 
I recently read the book/listened to the audio version
False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet, July 14, 2020 by Bjorn Lomborg. 
There are lots of ideas out their to protect our environment with a combination of power sources, not just one, without eliminating jobs and still living comfortably and successfully.  This book shares several examples of good intentions in the realm of green energy going asunder when special interests verses the greater good stepped in.  The biggest takeaway I found was that all the scientific studies do not take into account the ability of humans to adapt, their figures are based on nothing being done to protect our future between now and and whatever year they choose.  

"Enough, argues bestselling author Bjorn Lomborg. Climate change is real, but it's not the apocalyptic threat that we've been told it is. Projections of Earth's imminent demise are based on bad science and even worse economics. In panic, world leaders have committed to wildly expensive but largely ineffective policies that hamper growth and crowd out more pressing investments in human capital, from immunization to education." 
Source :    https://www.amazon.com/False-Alarm-Climate-Change-Trillions/dp/1541647467  


Why the French like Nuclear Energy
"France's decision to launch a large nuclear program dates back to 1973 and the events in the Middle East that they refer to as the "oil shock." The quadrupling of the price of oil by OPEC nations was indeed a shock for France because at that time most of its electricity came from oil burning plants. France had and still has very few natural energy resources. It has no oil, no gas and her coal resources are very poor and virtually exhausted. " 
Source:  https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/readings/french.html

 

[Mark and Dale Bruss]

If only some people in the government would read False Alarm, we could spend less and get more real results.

It turns out Texas had reserve capacity but the wonderful EPA refused to ease some standards to allow the energy to be created,  I guess the EPA is more powerful than the government.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Mark and Dale Bruss

[Barbaraok]

Velos, we used Lomborg's book "Skeptical Environmentalist" in 2004-2005 to teach our Freshman Seminar course "Environmental Facts and Fictions".   

Quote

The biggest takeaway I found was that all the scientific studies do not take into account the ability of humans to adapt, their figures are based on nothing being done to protect our future between now and and whatever year they choose. 

Yes and the reason is that after thousands of years people have learned that human adaptation comes only at the point of desperation.   Look at how many decades farmers on the prairies were warned that plowing long, long, long straight lines would lead to toil soil erosion.  "But the snows gives up plenty of soil moisture" - until it didn't and the DUST BOWL was the result.    Look at the push back just on this forum - the idea that electric vehicles, in some form or another, are coming gets people inflamed.  "Can't happen" type attitude instead of "gee, that is going to be interesting.  Wonder how they are going to set up enough charging stations" 

These were 18 yr. old  that we were teaching and for the most part embraced the idea of alternatives UNTIL we asked what they were will to do to help with change.  They were ok with a lot of things until it came to having to give up THEIR OWN CAR!  😎

 

6 minutes ago, Mark and Dale Bruss said:

If only some people in the government would read False Alarm, we could spend less and get more real results.

It turns out Texas had reserve capacity but the wonderful EPA refused to ease some standards to allow the energy to be created,  I guess the EPA is more powerful than the government.

First, what generating capacity did the EPA prevent from coming online?   Where's the link to this information?

Edited February 20, 2021 by Barbaraok

[GlennWest]

I find all this entertaining. Yes, I'm bored. Electric vehicles is coming. The electrical grids are going to expand. Texas will forget about this. We will repeat with my grandchildren. It is hard to spend money when we go generations not needing to. 

[bigjim]

41 minutes ago, Mark and Dale Bruss said:

It turns out Texas had reserve capacity but the wonderful EPA refused to ease some standards to allow the energy to be created,  I guess the EPA is more powerful than the government.

I don't know if this is true but I am skeptical. Willing to listen to a reliable source.

[hemsteadc]

15 hours ago, bruce t said:

RV you need to be very careful with what you read. First  the Teslar batteries are all subject to confidentiality....

Spelling too.. it's Tesla.

Edited February 20, 2021 by hemsteadc