Water, clean vs potable

[Nwcid]

With my HDT truck one of my goals is to add an aux water tank.  

In the process of designing my truck, I found out what I would like to do is not in a price range that I am willing to pay for.  I would like 100-150 gallons of water that can be used either as additional water in the RV or be used to clean our UTV's.  

Now, due to price, I am considering using a food grade IBC.  This holds 2x the water I need/want, but I have the space and the price is right.  I can pick one up for $100 and if I decide that we use it enough this year I can set up a "better" or more permanent system in the future.  If we rarely use it then I will decide what to do from there.  

I know that for "drinking" you want potable water.  In our RV we shower, wash and cook with our onboard water, but typically use 1 gal/2.5 gal "bottled" water for drinks.  

So how clean is clean enough?  Is just following the same water filling/handling techniques enough? 

I figure I will treat/clean the aux tank just like I would my RV tank with a bleach solution as needed.  To fill I am considering adding a standard hose fitting to the top of the tank and using QD fittings and caps to eliminate possible contamination vs sticking a hose in the large top opening.  For transfer to the RV this tank will sit high enough that I can gravity feed with no issues.  If gravity is not fast enough is there a reason I can not use the "winterizing" inlet to draw in the water?

I would also like to be able to use a 1", gas power pump (already own this) to clean the UTV's.  Is there a way to plumb this in that will prevent back flow/contamination?

Are my expectations and wants out of line with reality?  Am I over thinking this?

[Chalkie]

I would say that if you fill your water tanks with clean water (well or city) and the tanks are kept sanitized you should be good to go on using it for drinking. We do all the time and have never had ill effects. We do you use a PUR water pitcher for drinking but that is more for taste than anything.

As for back flow, install a backflow preventer. They are very common for garden hose and plumping sizes in any plumbing supply, or Lowes or HD.

In my rig, the winterizing inlet uses the water pump and when using that it is also usually in the water heater bypass setting. I suppose that you would not need to bypass the heater though. Again, I see no reason why not but you might just have to experiment with that. 

[agesilaus]

7 hours ago, Nwcid said:

Are my expectations and wants out of line with reality?  Am I over thinking this?

Yes. First thing--hasve you considered the weight of that much water? 8.33 pounds a gallon plus the weight of the container, 150 gallons weighs about 1500 pounds.

Potable water is defined by USEPA regulations: limits are set for over 90 contaminates.

If you fill the storage tank with water from a tested water source then you should be good unless you contaminate it someway. Clorox has a web page telling you how much bleach to use to disinfect water.

Frankly I think you would be better off just getting a water bladder for temp use, something of a more reasonable size like 30 gallons and refill it as needed. You can find 1 inch backflow preventers here

[Chalkie]

1 hour ago, agesilaus said:

Yes. First thing--hasve you considered the weight of that much water? 8.33 pounds a gallon plus the weight of the container, 150 gallons weighs about 1500 pounds.

I could be wrong but I thought maybe he was planning this for the HDT he is currently building in which case the weight is not as big an issue.

 

[Dutch_12078]

I don't think the water weight is much of a concern on his Volvo 630 HDT...

Oops! Chalkie beat me to it.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Dutch_12078

[Darryl&Rita]

Deal with lots of water hauling around the area, lots of the wells here have hard water, with dissolved iron and other minerals. Natural gas in solution is common, too.

The only difference between a tote and your RV tank is the sunlight hitting the tote. Expect to bleach more often than the onboard tank.

The water station has a long piece of hose hanging from an overhead pipe. The pipe is high enough that a full size semi fits under, and the hose is long enough to fill a tank on a car hauler trailer. Needless to say, the hose will drag over the hood and cab of the semi, as well as the top of the tank or trailer. The same hose then gets shoved into the lid to fill. I've never heard of issues tracking back to the fill station, but have heard of trucks getting cross-contaminated by filling with rig water at a beaver dam before delivering house water to a camp. Not good. Filling a tote with a garden hose is an exercise in patience. Figure on 45+ minutes. The gravity drain will be likewise.

[Nwcid]

So first thing, even with 3000 lbs of water, and my rv, and my UTV I still have about 30,000 lb of available payload.  I think I will be ok. 

My current RV has 120 gallons of fresh water and that gets us about a week of "normal" RV water usage.  Having an additional 50-100 would be nice.  I also have a large aux waste tank.  The only reason I am not going with a bladder is price.  

As for back flow, I have heard of them, just was not sure they work in the capacity.  I will do some more reading. 

Yes, with the winterizing valve, you typically bypass the water heater, but you could do it either way with fresh water.  I assume that it would prime easy from gravity.  I was more worried about duty cycle on a 12v pump.  Can/should it run for an hour straight?

I was concerned with the sunlight issue.  I was thinking of getting a cover, or even black plastic to cover it when I am parked.  

I know via garden hose will take a long time to fill.  I have a water trailer I use for burning fields at the house.  It is dual IBC on a trailer.......  We will be on the road adventuring and having fun, rushing is not in that plan

 

 

[noteven]

I use a re-purposed diesel exhaust fluid tote at my "summer base" camp (gee I'm still here in January) to transfer water to my trailer fresh water tank. I don't store water in it because it allows too much sunlight to pass into the water. 

One of these would work for longer storage if you could cover it with a sun blocking cover. 

The water I put in it to transfer is sanitary, and I am careful to completely drain it. I sanitize it before use in the spring. It sits in a freezer all winter. 

So anyways the main thing to consider is blocking sunlight, plus using water from a clean source. 

[Nwcid]

7 minutes ago, noteven said:

I use a re-purposed diesel exhaust fluid tote at my "summer base" camp (gee I'm still here in January) to transfer water to my trailer fresh water tank. I don't store water in it because it allows too much sunlight to pass into the water. 

One of these would work for longer storage if you could cover it with a sun blocking cover. 

The water I put in it to transfer is sanitary, and I am careful to completely drain it. I sanitize it before use in the spring. It sits in a freezer all winter. 

So anyways the main thing to consider is blocking sunlight, plus using water from a clean source. 

The tank will be clean, and sanitized as needed.  The same way I would do an RV tank. 

This tank will not just "sit" for months.  If we are going to an area where we need the extra capacity I will fill it.  It will be filled form the same source we fill our RV tanks. 

I will cover it with a black cover when stationary. 

[noteven]

10 minutes ago, Nwcid said:

The tank will be clean, and sanitized as needed.  The same way I would do an RV tank. 

This tank will not just "sit" for months.  If we are going to an area where we need the extra capacity I will fill it.  It will be filled form the same source we fill our RV tanks. 

I will cover it with a black cover when stationary. 

Yup I would not hesitate to store water in my tote if I had a light blocking cover.

[Darryl&Rita]

40 minutes ago, Nwcid said:

I will cover it with a black cover when stationary. 

Tractor Supply paint works, on the cheap. Just gotta block the sun from the "bugs" in the water. Can't grow very fast, if they don't get sunshine. Note I said "very fast", they'll still grow.

[Nwcid]

8 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Tractor Supply paint works, on the cheap. Just gotta block the sun from the "bugs" in the water. Can't grow very fast, if they don't get sunshine. Note I said "very fast", they'll still grow.

I had considered that also.  

My though on a cover is that at least I can uncover it and see the condition of the tank/water easier.  

Not sure if that is something that tends considering though. 

[Darryl&Rita]

As long as you keep the water flowing through it, shouldn't be a problem. Fill it, use it, empty and dry it as good as possible when not in use. A cover will keep the contents cooler than paint, and heat will encourage the bugs. Cooler water tends to feel nicer, too. Especially when getting rid of trail dust.

[Nwcid]

32 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

As long as you keep the water flowing through it, shouldn't be a problem. Fill it, use it, empty and dry it as good as possible when not in use. A cover will keep the contents cooler than paint, and heat will encourage the bugs. Cooler water tends to feel nicer, too. Especially when getting rid of trail dust.

It will only be flowing when transferring or filling.  Of course lots of movement going down the road. 

It will sit, likely for a week or so while we use onboard water.  Once the RV tank gets low then do a transfer.  Since we will typically out all summer, it will be warm to hot. 

A few times last year we found extreme mud or extreme dust.  It would have been nice to be able to clean, from a maintenance standpoint, the machine well under those conditions.  It was not worth the waste of our water though.  We also did not have a reasonable air compressor for cleaning filters and such.  With the HDT we now have onboard air also. 

So many great things come with an HDT. 

 

[Darryl&Rita]

3 hours ago, Nwcid said:

So many great things come with an HDT. 

Indeed. I meant not to fill it up and let it sit for the summer. A week is no problem, especially if the sun is kept off.

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

When we were doing the gate guarding gig, we had a 250gl tank for what was considered "Potable" water.  I had a 3 filter system with the last filter being a Daulton Ceramic filter  https://www.amazon.com/Doulton-W9220406-Imperial-Sterasyl-Ceramic/dp/B009TVD0F8

I used a potable water pump that had a 60psi (+-) pressure on it and transferred from the big tank to our onboard as needed.  It takes time (and Pressure) to push water thru the ceramic filter but we used it for everything but drinking.  

The water came from a potable source and I'm pretty sure it was still clean at our faucet.  I kept a small container of pool chlorine tablets- I used the little oval grain type-  to keep the big tank clean.  Just drop in 1 or 2 tablets as needed. 

If the tank is going to be in direct sun, painting the outside a dark coating with an overcoat of a white or tan color will slow down any growth inside.

 

[lappir]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:19 AM, Chalkie said:

I could be wrong but I thought maybe he was planning this for the HDT he is currently building in which case the weight is not as big an issue.

 

Weight may not be a "Big Issue" , but it is an issue worth discussing. 

One issue is baffling in the tank depending on how it's shaped and how it will be mounted. Sloshing water in a large tank can be very disturbing and can effect how the tank should be mounted and secured. A half full 100 gallon tank is harder to secure than a full 100 gallon tank. I'm not sure how much movement you get with the water bladders, but I agree that may be a better option than a rigid tank. I have thought about replacing my rigid tank with a few smaller bladders to open up the area where my 100 gallons of fresh water rides and use that space for a large battery bank. It's still in the thinking about it mode though. 

 

Rod

 

[Lance A Lott]

I have done this 3 different ways now. Both my curent tanks are under my trucks, 1 ton flatbed and 630 VNM I had a tank on the 1 ton bed for years. With the tank on the bed I used gravity feed it was not fast but but I didn't have to stand there and watch it, it took about 10 minute for 30 gallons. The 2 under bed tanks have 12 volt pumps the first one was a regular RV pump so 60 psi and normal flow rate, the second one is high flow with a lower psi. The RV pump is very good for washing mud off bikes etc. As well as transferring the water it is plumbed to the tank with a ball valve and a pipe to garden hose thread adapter there is a backflow preventer screwed on at that point then the hose, the backflow preventer is available at any hardware store. 

My under bed tanks are about 40 gallons if I find I need more I plan on using a bladder such as this one. 

 Water Storage Tank - Bladder - Bag - AQUATANK2 Stores Water For Your Emergency Water Supply - It Is a Light-Weight and Portable Water Container, Food-Grade Material, no BPAs (150 Gallon) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009ONFDE2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_56zbGbT7NK72S?psc=1

 

Homewerks Worldwide VACBFPZ4B Vacuum Breaker Hose Bib Backflow Preventer, 3/4 Inch, Brass Finish https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046HA9S6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_d-zbGb24HT75D

[Nwcid]

On 1/18/2021 at 6:12 AM, lappir said:

Weight may not be a "Big Issue" , but it is an issue worth discussing. 

One issue is baffling in the tank depending on how it's shaped and how it will be mounted. Sloshing water in a large tank can be very disturbing and can effect how the tank should be mounted and secured. A half full 100 gallon tank is harder to secure than a full 100 gallon tank. I'm not sure how much movement you get with the water bladders, but I agree that may be a better option than a rigid tank. I have thought about replacing my rigid tank with a few smaller bladders to open up the area where my 100 gallons of fresh water rides and use that space for a large battery bank. It's still in the thinking about it mode though. 

 

Rod

 

I have thought about the "baffling" issue and at the moment I do not have a good solution other than run full or empty.  For the tank this year, it will be secured with ratchet straps.  I know this is not the best long term solution, but this is also my "test" year for how much we will use it. 

 

[Darryl&Rita]

Baffling on IBC totes isn't a big issue. We use 2 on the deck of the one ton for tree watering, all offroad, and they don't move around. Almost all at idle, but still. 

[Nwcid]

On 1/18/2021 at 6:48 AM, Lance A Lott said:

I have done this 3 different ways now. Both my curent tanks are under my trucks, 1 ton flatbed and 630 VNM I had a tank on the 1 ton bed for years. With the tank on the bed I used gravity feed it was not fast but but I didn't have to stand there and watch it, it took about 10 minute for 30 gallons. The 2 under bed tanks have 12 volt pumps the first one was a regular RV pump so 60 psi and normal flow rate, the second one is high flow with a lower psi. The RV pump is very good for washing mud off bikes etc. As well as transferring the water it is plumbed to the tank with a ball valve and a pipe to garden hose thread adapter there is a backflow preventer screwed on at that point then the hose, the backflow preventer is available at any hardware store. 

My under bed tanks are about 40 gallons if I find I need more I plan on using a bladder such as this one. 

 Water Storage Tank - Bladder - Bag - AQUATANK2 Stores Water For Your Emergency Water Supply - It Is a Light-Weight and Portable Water Container, Food-Grade Material, no BPAs (150 Gallon) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009ONFDE2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_56zbGbT7NK72S?psc=1

 

Homewerks Worldwide VACBFPZ4B Vacuum Breaker Hose Bib Backflow Preventer, 3/4 Inch, Brass Finish https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046HA9S6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_d-zbGb24HT75D

Where did you secure it under your trucks?  I have looked at some options but I do not have a good location for an underbody tank without a major bed raising.  

I am not opposed to using a pump.  I am just trying alternate options.  My wife accuses me of buying too much crap and then not needing it...... She might be right......  Try before I buy.  I have a reasonably compact 1" gas powered pump that will be easy to store on the truck.  My plan is to use this pump for washing, it is not a potable pump. 

I did look at the bladder you linked.  It is one I considered, the only issue I have how to secure it to the vehicle?  It has no anchor points built into it.  How do you secure yours when transporting full?  The ones I could find that has ancho points were closer to $500.   I am not opposed to those if I find I use this aux source enough...... see above.  For now, for under $100 I can put a food grade IBC with 275 gallons on the truck.

[Nwcid]

3 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Baffling on IBC totes isn't a big issue. We use 2 on the deck of the one ton for tree watering, all offroad, and they don't move around. Almost all at idle, but still. 

I have one also for work around the farm at low speeds.  

I know my HDT is heavy, but 150-200 gallons sloshing while on non-HWY roads at speed is a fair amount of force. 

 

[Randyretired]

The 100 gallon water tanks on our HDT are on the bed.  The local steel shop bent metal covers that also have a flange bent at the bottom. I had to weld the end plates on.  The covers snugly fit over the tanks and are bolted to the bed.  This holds the tank in place and covers it.  The fresh water tank has a 2" fill and a hose connection at the bottom for a pump. The waste water tank has a 3" fill and a regular RV dump setup under the bed.

[Nwcid]

9 minutes ago, Randyretired said:

The 100 gallon water tanks on our HDT are on the bed.  The local steel shop bent metal covers that also have a flange bent at the bottom. I had to weld the end plates on.  The covers snugly fit over the tanks and are bolted to the bed.  This holds the tank in place and covers it.  The fresh water tank has a 2" fill and a hose connection at the bottom for a pump. The waste water tank has a 3" fill and a regular RV dump setup under the bed.

Ok.  I looked at a wide variety of tanks.  One option was to find one that mounted under where I plan on putting my tool box and do similar to what you are discussing.  That can be done as a future upgrade if we use it enough.  By the time I get tanks and have fab work done I will easily be over $500 and likely close to $1000.  Not money well spent until I know we will use it often.  

I assume you were discussing how you secure your fixed tanks.  Any comment about securing the bladder?

[Lance A Lott]

My fresh tanks are mounted behind my toolboxes at the very rear of the truck, one on each side of the frame they are 18 gallon each if I remember correctly. I have a 40 gallon black tank mounted on the passenger side under the frame beside the drive shaft this would not work if you have fuel tanks on that side. I have not needed to get a blader tank yet but I thought I would make a 2x10 collapsible frame when and if I need one.