Gasoline Car Sales to End by 2035 in Massachusetts

[Darryl&Rita]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

I'm trying to figure out why the vitriol about moving to alternative energy sources for vehicles.

People hate change, even more so if they don't understand them.

[RV_]

Barb, well put. I am 68 and hope to see the transition take off this year. 

However the naysayers will keep on naysaying.

However, the facts are opposite what they are saying about never happen in our lifetimes. ONe in ten vehicles in Europe are Electric today.

Excerpt:

"Electric car sales will start to take off in the U.S. in 2021, Ford CTO says

For Ford (F), 2021 looks like the year that electric vehicle (EV) sales will truly begin to take off. The auto maker, which is set to launch its highly anticipated Mustang Mach E electric crossover, says the year will be pivotal in terms of EV sales in the U.S.

“We've already seen some signals that indicate that we're going to start to see a real acceleration of consumer adoption and pull for electric vehicles,” Ford CTO Ken Washington told Yahoo Finance during the all-virtual CES 2021.

According to a November report by Frost & Sullivan, U.S. EV sales were forecast to top out at 1.6 million vehicles in 2020, before reaching 7 million vehicles sold by 2025.

“I think what we're going to see is the cost will continue to come down, and as governments make changes to policies...I think that'll lead to an acceleration of the adoption that's already happening in Europe, where we're seeing as many as one in 10 vehicles be an all-electric vehicle,” Washington said. “We think the acceleration is going to really begin...this year.”

Ford’s big sell will be its upcoming Mustang Mach-E electric crossover. Designed to take on market leader Tesla’s (TSLA) Model Y, the Mach-E starts at $42,895, or $35,395 after federal tax credits, while the Model Y starts at $41,990, or $35,690 after incentives and gas savings.

The base Mach-E gets you an estimated 230 miles per charge, while the Ford’s California Route 1 model gets 305 miles on a charge. The base Model Y, meanwhile, gets 244 miles on a charge or 326 with the extended range package. (Like I have)

Ford will see a formidable competitor in Tesla, which became a Wall Street darling in 2020. The company’s stock skyrocketed 714% in the last 12 months from $103.70 a share on Jan. 15 2020 to $845 a share as of the close of markets on Jan. 14, 2021. Tesla’s market cap puts it as the most valuable automaker in the world, despite selling a fraction of the vehicles of its competitors.

It’s not just Tesla Ford will be competing with, though. Other manufacturers are diving deeper into the EV space as well, including BMW, Honda (HMC), Volkswagen, and Toyota (TM) — heck, there’s even an all-electric Hummer on the horizon.

Source:https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-cto-electric-car-sales-will-start-to-take-off-in-the-us-in-2021-172209080.html

Self-driving vehicles are coming in 2022

Beyond electric vehicles, Washington offered his predictions for when drivers will begin to see fully autonomous vehicles hit the road.

“We're moving toward the 2022 timeline, which is not very different than what we originally said, because we've always known it was going to be difficult,” he said.

Tesla currently offers what it calls its Full Self-Driving Capability package as well as its Autopilot feature, though both are nowhere near providing the experience you’d expect with something called “Full Self-Driving Capability.” Instead, the option is an advanced driver assistance package that still requires driver supervision.

Ford’s first autonomous vehicles, Washington explained, will likely be taxi services or delivery vehicles rather than consumer cars.

Source with much more here: https://sg.news.yahoo.com/ford-cto-electric-car-sales-will-start-to-take-off-in-the-us-in-2021-172209080.html

 

Barb, I have always wondered why folks are still using expensive Nav systems when an even a non GPS equipped Amazon Fire tablet using WiFi and cell data, does a great job of navigation. Android or Windows tablets can do all the navigation they want with 17" screens down to Android and Apple smart phones ~ 6" screens. I use our phones with Android car for the Forester. Plugged into the USB port it shows the Nav screen on the larger Forester Dash head unit screen.

The Tesla has its own full size screen and excellent Nav system. I can't wait until full autonomous is out of beta. The Model Y comes with the computer and all the cameras for full self driving from the factory at no extra charge. Later if you want it you pay the fee and it is activated with an update just like all my other updates over WiFi at home.

Ford is now shipping its new mustang model E and it does not beat the base model Y in price, range, or acceleration. Mine is now rated at 326 miles per charge with two motors and AWD for $49,999.00 to $51,000.00. Everyone is trying to produce a Tesla killer because we set the standards. I hope they are competitive, but no one has to date.

The GM Volt Hybrid, all but formally discontinued had too little electric range and their BEV Bolt stranded 10% of their new owners from the first shipment from Goldstar of Korea, who designed and built it. Their TVs and VCRs from the 80s were much better. I tried one of their high priced expensive refrigerators and it blew a fuse that was soldered to the motherboard, and did not sell parts to end users, had only one authorized repair person in the ares of the third largest Louisiana city metro area. So a $1.00 fuse would cost $450.00 - $250 for a new motherboard because the other components would fry if the fuse was de-soldered. Then about $150 for the service call. Goldstar shipped the mostly disassembled GM Bolt cars to GM's Orion plant for final assembly. Was a work around to say they were made in the USA?

The Nio costs quite a bit more in base price compared to the Tesla.

Excerpt:

Telsa Rival Sedan Reveal

NIO shares gained nearly 9% in New York trading after the company unveiled its new all-electric sedan, the ET7.

The ET7 offers two battery options, 70 kWh and 100 kWh that provide a range of 311 miles and 435 miles, respectively. By late 2022, there also will be a 150 kWh battery version that will go 620 miles on a single charge, according to the company.

The ET7 starts at 448,000 yuan ($69,193) before government subsidies. Deliveries will start from the first quarter of 2022.

NIO’s electric sedan puts it nose-to-nose with Tesla, which last year sold more than 120,000 of its best-selling Model 3 vehicles in China. The Palo Alto, Calif.-based company also started selling its roomier China-made Model Y SUV on Jan. 1, which starts from 339,900 yuan. ($52,446.57 US Dollar)

Source: https://www.thestreet.com/video/nio-shoots-higher-following-telsa-rival-sedan-reveal

That's not nose to nose to me as the Nio base model costs at least $17,000.00 more than my Tesla Model Y which cost me before the price decrease $51,999.00 for mine for two motors AWD, and the long range battery pack. 

All of that to say this:

The real acceleration is just beginning now.

 

[Kirk W]

20 minutes ago, RV_ said:

However the naysayers will keep on naysaying.

How true that is. When I was in school, I expected to see us change from English measurements to metric in the near future. Now it looks like I may not live long enough to see it happen.

[RV_]

1 hour ago, Darryl&Rita said:

People hate change, even more so if they don't understand them.

Well said Darryl. You should have seen the comments here in 2003-2008 when I posted about Tesla long before they did their IPO in 2010. I one of our original forum members, let's call him S, say it was a pump and dump, which in hindsight made no sense as it was privately owned in 2003 when that comment was made on these forums. K agreed and said no one would buy an electric car. Then the shorts pretty much took over on Seeking Alpha (SA) Tesla posts. They have predicted Tesla going bk since the first Roadsters were sold out in 2008/2009 every month for the last 156 months, or 13 years. One of their leading skeptics turned out to be an executive for an Oil company! LOL!

Folks also get upset when they poo poo a new technology or product when they refused to see it and missed out on the profits from what they denied being real. Then they take out their lack of vision on those who did. I use links and proof. Did you ever notice the "I've been in that field for 300 years and they have not done it yet, and are not going to do it NOW!" group rarely provides any links or research while naysaying and leave it up to the early adopter to prove it to them? Then it goes from an interesting item, to the deniers all but denying anything they don't know is possible, ergo it must be impossible.

[NamMedevac 70]

I am very comfortable with my old stuff that works just fine for me and let other folks be early adopters of everything and then learn from their useful experiences.  I thank them kindly for their devotion. All is good.

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by NamMedevac 70

[RV_]

25 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

How true that is. When I was in school, I expected to see us change from English measurements to metric in the near future. Now it looks like I may not live long enough to see it happen.

And for those of us who went into the medical fields in the 70s and 80s, it was a shock. For me it was as a medic for four years. Then I was almost overwhelmed doing Medical Lab Technologist school. I had to do algebra with metric system at work and Imperial units at home.  In the 70s - 80s we did pipetting by mouth and made up a lot of our own reagents and did manual titrations for machine QC as well as manual titrations etc.

“Titration can discern the volume of one solution required to react exactly with a known volume of a different solution.”

Problem 1: Compute the titratable acidity if 17.5ml of 0.085N NaOH is required to titrate a 15ml sample of juice, the sum titratable acidity of that juice, articulated as the percentage of citric acid. (molecular weight = 192; equivalent weight = 64)

Solution:

Now we use the equation:

 

% of acid = 0.085×17.5×64/15×10 = 0.635%

Notice that the equivalent weight of anhydrous citric acid always is used in calculating and reporting the results of titration."

So we had to learn all the equations, then do them in metric units! LOL! I still remember most of my conversions but it has been a lot of years since the 1971-1981. I've slept since then.

 

[Kirk W]

1 minute ago, RV_ said:

For me it was as a medic for four years.

For me, it was Navy nuclear power school in 1962. We did everything  math using metrics and it didn't take long to grasp the reason. But I see a strong parallel to that in many tech areas. Eventually economics will bring most things like the change in vehicles in time. I guess that my generation will have to die before metric is accepted. 

[Randyretired]

We bought a new Subaru Crosstrek this year and I briefly looked at the hybrid.   The electric range is 17 miles.  It is 40 miles to town for us so that would save maybe 1/2 gallon of fuel.  The hybrid was around $6,000 more after the tax credit.  We were looking for a car with good fuel economy that had off road capability but the hybrid didn't work for us.  I like renewable energy and our new house will have PV and solar hotwater but it needs to be reasonably priced.

[RV_]

17 minutes ago, NamMedevac 70 said:

I am very comfortable with my old stuff that works just fine for me and let other folks be early adopters of everything and then learn from their useful experiences.  I thank them kindly for their devotion. All is good.

 

I only early adopted the stock in 2010 with 1000 shares at $17 and $22.5.

I did not buy the car until June 2020. They made a lot of Model S, Model X, and Model 3's before I bought mine.

I retired and went full time in 1997 went back to work in 2005-2009 for four years as a post-frame steel building contractor. My 2010 ~ $21 k total investment in Tesla was half of my petty cash account I kept for my two full time sales guys and my personal assistant. They were, and are, discretionary funds. Albeit they grew beyond my expectations. I had some help from folks here to figure out how to do it sensibly.

[docj]

4 hours ago, jcussen said:

Some newer hybrid models have a greater electric only range, in many cases enough for daily commutes. 48 miles for the Honda Clarity.

Drive to work and back, plug in when you get home and you are ready to go again the next morning, for longer trips, just fill up your gas tank.

What intrigues me about the Clarity is the hydrogen fuel cell version which, at present, is only being sold in CA. IMHO an easy to refuel fuel cell vehicle would be an excellent option.

[RV_]

From Forbes:

Tesla’s $25,000 Electric Car Means Game Over For Gas And Oil

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2020/09/26/teslas-25000-electric-car-means-game-over-for-gas-and-oil/?sh=1111467f1ee7

[RV_]

Joel,

How is the Clarity fueled, Compressed gas? Pellets? How much does the hydrogen cost in mpg/equivalents?

Edited January 15, 2021 by RV_

[Barbaraok]

As a chemistry major/teacher when I went to grad school in Chem Eng I was dismayed by the use of Imperial system - and the main reason, the oil industry who resisted change.   Every other industry was on board.  It's one reason one of our probes crashed on Mars - someone forgot to change Imperical into Metric - though why anyone at NASA was working in something other than metric is beyond me.    And most people in this country are comfortable with meds, which are in ml and grams, will buying liters of liquor, kilos for illicit drugs, etc.   Need just to say, "Next January 1st, all metric, PERIOD!"   

[jcussen]

31 minutes ago, docj said:

What intrigues me about the Clarity is the hydrogen fuel cell version which, at present, is only being sold in CA. IMHO an easy to refuel fuel cell vehicle would be an excellent option.

Agree it would be an excellent option, but problem is, there are only 44 hydrogen filling stations in the US, and 42 of them are in California. Another problem is producing it and shipping to filling stations. Could be produced fairly cheaply with excess wind and solar power in non-peak periods, but believe it would be an uphill battle against EV/hybrids, because electricity is already available almost everywhere.There are almost 80000 charging outlets, at 25000 charging stations in the US and of course, home charging for many. I personally charge my EV with solar panels on my roof, pretty simple setup, not sure what the cost would be to have them power a hydrogen generator to fill a fuel cell.

https://azgreenmagazine.com/how-many-hydrogen-fuel-stations-are-there-in-the-us/#/find/nearest?fuel=HY

https://muchneeded.com/electric-vehicle-charging-network-statistics/

[Darryl&Rita]

2 hours ago, RV_ said:

You should have seen the comments here in 2003-2008 when I posted about Tesla long before they did their IPO in 2010.

Been here since '09 or '10, lurked for close to a year before that. Seen them, did my own research, and been in and out several times over the years. Hindsight is a bitch, should have went long. Bitcoin, too.  C'est la vie.

[RV_]

29 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Been here since '09 or '10, lurked for close to a year before that. Seen them, did my own research, and been in and out several times over the years. Hindsight is a bitch, should have went long. Bitcoin, too.  C'est la vie.

C'est la vie is right.