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Gasoline Car Sales to End by 2035 in Massachusetts


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19 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

You did and I did, but most people don’t. You seem to project your thoughts and dealings to everyone else. I am glad you enjoy your hybrid. I have no use for one as I live out in the country, drive 250-300 hundred miles many days and one will not work for me.

Maybe one of these days but not at the present which is where I live.

You said most people do x, and I said, we don't, we do y.  Not projecting on to others, just saying we are different.

And a hybrid would work just fine for you, but you are determined to believe it won't.  One of the best parts is that, at least for the Fords, they can use BOTH systems, which extends the distance you can go, the computer making adjustments as needed.     We did a 3000 mile round trip (750 miles each day), some city most highway driving and mpg during that time frame was 43 mpg.   Was neat to be doing 65 mph going down the highway and no engine sound at all because we are on the big battery.  Get near a city, traffic picks up, more braking, more energy going back into the battery stored for when we are another long stretch to lengthen our trip.   

 

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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Research by R.L. Polk says that the average age of a modern vehicle is 11.4 years, while the average length of time drivers keep a new vehicle is 71.4 months — around 6 years.

From Auto Trader. 

Good travelin !...............Kirk

Full-time 11+ years...... Now seasonal travelers.
Kirk & Pam's Great RV Adventure

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Our granddaughter took the Ford Fusion hybrid on a trip to Colorado, roughly 1650 miles round trip. She only had to fill up twice on a 14 gallon tank with the rest of the miles taken up with the electric. I think she could have done better had she been more smooth on the braking to take advantage of the reactive breaking. Range for that car on gas alone is about 400 on a tank. If I ever get another car it will darn sure be a hybrid, I don't think I am ready for all electric yet, although my son-in-law put down a deposit on a Tesla truck.

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14 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Ford C-Max Hybrid, which they discontinued and have no idea why because it is incredibly dependable. Tow it 4-down behind the motorhome.   We get over 50 mph, in city the engine seldom comes on, especially in traffic with a lot of braking going on.

You have the version of the C-Max that can drive in a pure electric mode.  Many C-Max's didn't have this feature.  They were "traditional" hybrids that had only a limited ability to drive in electric mode.  We had considered the C-Max before you version was available and decided that a regular hybrid didn't buy us all that much in open road driving.  The real benefit of a regular hybrid is in the regenerative braking but if you're driving ~75-80 on the highway you aren't doing all that much braking!

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
WiFiRanger Ambassador
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

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42 minutes ago, docj said:

The real benefit of a regular hybrid is in the regenerative braking but if you're driving ~75-80 on the highway you aren't doing all that much braking!

 But even in the car we cruise at 65.  And after all the years driving MH for anything over 100 miles, it just feels comfortable.

 

20 minutes ago, Rich&Sylvia said:

When you talk about 500 to 700 miles trips - that's the exception - not the norm.

Commuters, shoppers, weekenders are the bulk of personal travel - day in, day out.
Get up in the morning, breakfast, unplug the car and go to work.  No charging station needed.


 

agree.  Complaint is always that they can go very far.

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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4 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

But even in the car we cruise at 65.  And after all the years driving MH for anything over 100 miles, it just feels comfortable.

You've missed my point entirely.  When you're traveling on the highway at whatever speed you're not doing much in the way of slowing down and speeding up.  That's where regenerative braking saves energy so on the highway you get no benefit from that.

 When you're driving at a constant speed most hybrid vehicles are just running on their IC engines and are pretty much indistinguishable from any other IC-powered vehicle.  Most get pretty good gas mileage but that's primarily because most, if not all, of them are powered by small-displacement engines.

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
WiFiRanger Ambassador
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

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Modern plugin hybrids like the Honda Clarity offer the best of both worlds. Plug it in and drive around town for 48 miles on batteries alone, at about 1/4 the price of gasoline. For a long trip, fill the gas tank and drive 340 miles before refilling. $7500 federal tax credit, and possible state credits also make it pretty affordable. And you can use the HOV lanes with one person.

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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1 hour ago, docj said:

You've missed my point entirely.  When you're traveling on the highway at whatever speed you're not doing much in the way of slowing down and speeding up.  That's where regenerative braking saves energy so on the highway you get no benefit from that.

 When you're driving at a constant speed most hybrid vehicles are just running on their IC engines and are pretty much indistinguishable from any other IC-powered vehicle.  Most get pretty good gas mileage but that's primarily because most, if not all, of them are powered by small-displacement engines.

I watched ours when we did our long jaunt to see the kids a year ago, it often ran on the battery and did a lot of both running - the IC just helping.  If you go above 75, then the IC engine usually takes over, but if you stay under, the computer switches back and forth as needed.  And out in the west, it is up and down all the town, engine kicks on about 1/2 way up any climb, but once at the top, she's recharging the big battery all the way down and about half way into the next climb.    All I can tell you is that we were getting 42 mpg out on the highway, and I was really surprised.  And once at our destination, it costs next to nothing for short trips which is why it is such a great car to pull 4-down behind the motorhome.  

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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40 minutes ago, NamMedevac 70 said:

Sad Facts.  If the electric grid goes down for whatever reason not only will be no charging for EV vehicles but the gas pumps will not operate.  Everyone will be in same pot of soup. 

Too true. A good time to put some panels on the roof and buy some used Leaf batteries to store your solar power and power your fridge and freezer and charge your EV/hybrid.

 

 

 

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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45 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

I watched ours when we did our long jaunt to see the kids a year ago, it often ran on the battery and did a lot of both running - the IC just helping.  If you go above 75, then the IC engine usually takes over, but if you stay under, the computer switches back and forth as needed.  And out in the west, it is up and down all the town, engine kicks on about 1/2 way up any climb, but once at the top, she's recharging the big battery all the way down and about half way into the next climb.    All I can tell you is that we were getting 42 mpg out on the highway, and I was really surprised.  And once at our destination, it costs next to nothing for short trips which is why it is such a great car to pull 4-down behind the motorhome.  

I've explained that your C-Max is an unusual hybrid because it contains a battery pack large enough for a reasonable amount of electric-only driving.  That's not the case for many other hybrids which can go only a very short distance before the IC engine kicks in.  But, quite honestly, 42 mpg isn't all that unusual these days.  My Hyundai Elantra routinely obtained 35 mpg in around-town driving.

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
WiFiRanger Ambassador
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

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18 hours ago, NamMedevac 70 said:

Has anyone owned and had good luck with a hybrid vehicle???

I guess it depends on what you mean.  I have a Kia Optima Hybrid.  I did not buy it for the hybrid, I bought it because the price was right for a commuter car to rack miles up on.  

With that said I bought it used in 2015 with 15k miles and it now has about 140k miles on it.  I mostly commute long distances on open roads and I drive like and A-hole.  I average mid-30's MPG.  My wife when she drives in similar conditions usually gets 40-42 mpg.  

The place where this car really shines is in stop/go traffic.  When we are in the city with stop and go traffic the MPG will actually go up since the car drops into battery mode sitting at lights.  

I have have had no problems with the car or the hybrid system. 

2014 Volvo 630. 2016 Fuzion 325T, RZR 900 Trail 
675ah AGM, MSH 3012 inverter, 960w Solar.  (2016 Chevy 3500 DRW, backup)

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6 hours ago, Nwcid said:

The place where this car really shines is in stop/go traffic.  When we are in the city with stop and go traffic the MPG will actually go up since the car drops into battery mode sitting at lights.  

I have have had no problems with the car or the hybrid system. 

This is why they are such great cars for towing behind MHs for full timers.  Think about what you do once parked at the next destination.  You go out and explore, visit families, etc.,  Lots of short trips, often in small towns, or big cities, with stop and go driving.  No 200+ mile jaunts, but rather 10 miles over city streets to Cousin Joe's for a family cookout.  Or driving the 5 miles Sto the parking lot at the museum you came to see, or travel through the National Park, pulling off at all of the 'vista' areas to take in views.  

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

You go out and explore, visit families, etc.,  Lots of short trips, often in small towns, or big cities, with stop and go driving.  No 200+ mile jaunts, but rather 10 miles over city streets to Cousin Joe's for a family cookout

Yes, this is true for us some of the time.  But just as likely, we're using the toad to explore Yellowstone or to drive to Tadoussac from Quebec or something similar.  Driving 200-300 miles in a day of exploring isn't uncommon for us.  Don't generalize that everyone uses their time and vehicle the same way.

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
WiFiRanger Ambassador
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

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37 minutes ago, docj said:

Yes, this is true for us some of the time.  But just as likely, we're using the toad to explore Yellowstone or to drive to Tadoussac from Quebec or something similar.  Driving 200-300 miles in a day of exploring isn't uncommon for us.  Don't generalize that everyone uses their time and vehicle the same way.

I think it is okay to generalize because as a great majority, everyone in the general populace does use their time and vehicle the same way.
If you spotlight the very few in the full time community, it will be different.  A few may drive 200-300 miles a day once in a while  - but every day?  
How does one choose a vehicle when it's long range (200+ miles a day) is infrequent?  
I'm afraid it's why we see people driving daily drivers that are HUGE vehicles because they need it to tow a boat or trailer once or twice a year.
Anyway, I lost track of the topic. . . .carry on . . .🙂

Lance-white-sands-500.jpg

~Rich

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11 hours ago, Rich&Sylvia said:

How does one choose a vehicle when it's long range (200+ miles a day) is infrequent?  
I'm afraid it's why we see people driving daily drivers that are HUGE vehicles because they need it to tow a boat or trailer once or twice a year.

In your opinion, should that person sell his boat or rent a truck when he wants to pull it?  Or should he ideally be someone affluent enough to own a truck that he only uses to pull his boat a couple of times a year?

Similarly, when I tow a vehicle behind my MH I want it to be capable of being used in all possible situations.  I don't care if it's only used a couple of times a month on lengthy daytrips into "rough terrain" but, for example, when I want to drive around the Grand Staircase Escalante I don't want to have range anxiety be a concern.

EVs represent a good solution for many people for their daily driving needs.  But IMHO we're a long way from the point where they are the ONLY transportation solution that many people will want.  In coastal TX where we live during the winter there are very few charging stations available outside of major cities and there is plenty of "open space" where there are none at all.  Maybe that will change over time, but, for now, having ONLY an EV would be very restrictive of one's activities.  

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
WiFiRanger Ambassador
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

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Massachusetts is a long ways from Grand Staircase Escalante.  My opinion is that free market forces will dictate what individuals think they should do.  I am only an observer of what they actually do.

I don't think Massachusetts is getting ahead of itself regarding daily drivers.  The need for competent off-road vehicles will be met regardless of Massachusetts law requires. 

Agreed, electric vehicles are not ready to fully replace all fossil fuel powered vehicles.  But that time is coming.

 

Lance-white-sands-500.jpg

~Rich

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Joel, the discussion is, I though, about HYBRIDs, not EVs.   I am sure that within a few years charging states will appear all over like they do on the West Coast, but for now I prefer a hybrid so that we can go explore and not have to worry about finding a charging station.   To me it is the best of both worlds.   And face it, the Gen Zers are going to affect what types of vehicles start rolling off the production lines, not old RVers like us.😎

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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42 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

the discussion is, I though, about HYBRIDs, not EVs.

With all due respect, this thread began with a post about Massachusetts phasing out sale of IC-powered cars.

And, once again, most hybrid vehicles are not like yours.  The 2021 Prius Prime which has the largest battery of the Prius models is only capable of ~25 miles in pure electric mode.  

https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/faq/

Edited by docj

Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/brake system
WiFiRanger Ambassador
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

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28 minutes ago, docj said:

With all due respect, this thread began with a post about Massachusetts phasing out sale of IC-powered cars.

And, once again, most hybrid vehicles are not like yours.  The 2021 Prius Prime which has the largest battery of the Prius models is only capable of ~25 miles in pure electric mode.  

https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/faq/

Some newer hybrid models have a greater electric only range, in many cases enough for daily commutes. 48 miles for the Honda Clarity.

Drive to work and back, plug in when you get home and you are ready to go again the next morning, for longer trips, just fill up your gas tank.

https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-plug-in-hybrid

Foretravel 40ft tag 500hp Cummins ISM  1455 watts on the roof, 600 a/h's lithium in the basement.

 

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I'm trying to figure out why the vitriol about moving to alternative energy sources for vehicles.  A great number of us won't be here in 15 or 20 years, but we should realize by now that change comes rapidly.  We had Nokia cell phones when we started full timing in 2006 and you could play a game on them.  Then flip-phones and the ability to take a picture if we had forgotten to bring the camera.    And gigabyte of data usage was for big companies, not full-time RVers.  Then came the iPod followed by the iPhone.  Does anyone still travel will a container of CDs to listen to going down the highway?   I haven't bothered to update the maps for our GPS unit for the motorhome, will just use the iPhone plus a Trucker's Atlas.  

Change will come, we can't stop it, and it is time to look at how we can adapt to that change as it comes. 

Barb & Dave O'Keeffe
2002 Alpine 36 MDDS (Figment II), 2018 Ford C-Max HYBRID
Blog: http://www.barbanddave.net
SPK# 90761 FMCA #F337834

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