Gasoline Car Sales to End by 2035 in Massachusetts

[RV_]

I think we will be seeing more of this across the entire United States.

Excerpt:

"Charging stations will need to become as common as gas stations

Massachusetts plans to phase out sales of new gasoline-powered cars by 2035, speeding down the same road as California.

While many climate hawks have their eyes trained on the federal government, the proposal last week from Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker (R) heralds significant climate action at the state level.

“I’m really excited to see Gov. Baker moving forward to address global warming pollution from cars and get more zero-emission vehicles on the road,” said Morgan Folger, director of the Zero Carbon Campaign at Environment America.

“Transportation is one of the largest sources of global warming pollution in Massachusetts, and, in particular, gas-powered cars are a big chunk,” Folger added. “So phasing out gas-powered cars in the state could make a big dent."

Baker issued the proposal as part of his interim Clean Energy and Climate Plan for 2030, which outlines how the state can reduce carbon emissions 45% below 1990 levels by 2030—an interim target on the path to net-zero emissions by 2050.

Transportation accounts for 40% of greenhouse gas emissions in Massachusetts, according to the state Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs. Passenger cars alone are responsible for roughly 27% of all carbon pollution."

More in the Scientific American article here:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gasoline-car-sales-to-end-by-2035-in-massachusetts/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tech&utm_content=link&utm_term=2021-01-12_top-stories&spMailingID=69496604&spUserID=NTAzMDg3NDk0MDIzS0&spJobID=2041247058&spReportId=MjA0MTI0NzA1OAS2

[justRich]

Charging stations will be at home.  The car sits overnight in your garage (if you have one) and is plugged in for charging.  That eliminates the need for public chargers.

Car that are parked on the street or driveways?  We might see an upsurge in extension cord purchases.

There is a tremendous resource of electric power on the grid during the night.
I don't expect to see a big demand for public power once the electric vehicle becomes more common.

 

[Big Rick]

Ahh, the old save the environment by having to generate more electricity scheme.

[Nwcid]

What is the environmental cost of mining the materials, factories for making the batteries and the landfills for disposing of the batteries at the end of their life?

[Kirk W]

9 hours ago, Nwcid said:

What is the environmental cost of mining the materials, factories for making the batteries and the landfills for disposing of the batteries at the end of their life?

A related question that I have is about wind generators. A wind generator is removing energy from the weather system and make electricity with it If you take enough energy from the wind, will it not change the weather patterns once you do enough of it? 

[Big Rick]

Blades from wind generators cannot be recycled, have a max 20 year lifespan and end up in landfills!

[Barbaraok]

1 hour ago, Big Rick said:

Blades from wind generators cannot be recycled, have a max 20 year lifespan and end up in landfills!

Can't be completely recycled YET!    Most of the blade components can, and companies are looking at ways to crush and create new products - - look at the deck of your home to be made of recycled fiberglass in a few years.  

12 hours ago, Big Rick said:

Ahh, the old save the environment by having to generate more electricity scheme.

Reduce carbon emissions and leave the petroleum to be used for pharmaceuticals, etc.  Oil is finite, wind goes on until the radioactive reactions in the earth's core cease and we stop rotating, or the sun goes as a supernova.   

 

12 hours ago, Rich&Sylvia said:

Charging stations will be at home.  The car sits overnight in your garage (if you have one) and is plugged in for charging.  That eliminates the need for public chargers.

Car that are parked on the street or driveways?  We might see an upsurge in extension cord purchases.

There is a tremendous resource of electric power on the grid during the night.
I don't expect to see a big demand for public power once the electric vehicle becomes more common.

 

No - you can't do long trips (500-600 miles) without charging stations.  Haven't been driving out west lately have you.  Lots of truck stops now have them.  Wineries all along the west coast are putting them in at their tasting rooms.   Come in, plug in,  go in and do some wine tasting, buy a couple of bottles, and move on.   Some grocery stores now have charging stations.   

 

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

A related question that I have is about wind generators. A wind generator is removing energy from the weather system and make electricity with it If you take enough energy from the wind, will it not change the weather patterns once you do enough of it? 

Weather is not determined by winds at 100'.  Jet streams move the air around that affected the 'weather'.  Mountain ranges affect the weather, look at the any state with a mountain range through the middle.   

[Chalkie]

To me wind makes far more sense than solar in the long run, after all the sun doesn't always shine. It both cases there needs to be a way to store excess production otherwise standard electrical generation (coal, gas) needs to be available to keep the grid up. Wind may become even more successful if small, home-sized wind generators were made available at reasonable prices. 

It would be nice if someone came up with a better material for batteries than lithium. It too is a finite resource no matter size of current reserves and it causes huge pollution issues in both mining and disposal of used batteries. For example, it takes 500,000 gallons of water to produce one ton of lithium and requires a lot of toxic materials to process it. It also is not so good on the environment visually.

 

 

[durangodon]

While visiting Amish country I had occasion to see a couple of small wind generators for businesses.  I asked how much electricity they were making.  The response was "not very much".  They used a bank of batteries to store energy and the wind generator would not keep up enough to provide lighting for the building.  They were using gas lighting.  The batteries were powering a ceiling fan.

On top of that, the wind generators were noisy, very noisy, and that was on a fairly mild wind day.

[Kirk W]

1 hour ago, Chalkie said:

It would be nice if someone came up with a better material for batteries than lithium. 

Sodium ion batteries are coming and the same is true of hydrogen fuel cells. 

Quote

Hydrogen fuel cells have an energy-to-weight ratio ten times greater than lithium batteries, owing to the use of hydrogen and oxygen as reactants. This means hydrogen fuel cells can be lighter and occupy smaller spaces while delivering equivalent power to lithium batteries, saving on resources.

 

[Big Rick]

Well they have been saying that renewable energy was coming for 50 years. Everything seems to have the downside. Can I charge my car in 10 minutes  like I can fuel it? No.

just where are you going to put all of these wind generators? I guarantee it will be NIMBY for most folks. Heck, the rich elite in Martha’s Vineyard killed a giant offshore wind farm because they didn’t like the view!

[Barbaraok]

17 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

Well they have been saying that renewable energy was coming for 50 years. Everything seems to have the downside. Can I charge my car in 10 minutes  like I can fuel it? No.

just where are you going to put all of these wind generators? I guarantee it will be NIMBY for most folks. Heck, the rich elite in Martha’s Vineyard killed a giant offshore wind farm because they didn’t like the view!

Higher charging rates are coming.  Rick, change is coming whether you like it or not.   Your saying the same things people were saying 100 years ago, 200 years ago, since time began. Change use to take decades, now 6 months might be a long time.  😎

[Chalkie]

3 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Sodium ion batteries are coming and the same is true of hydrogen fuel cells. 

 

Both technologies are very promising but are going to take some major pushing and investing to mature the technologies to commercial value. Elon Musk has called the hydrogen fuel cell "mind bogglingly stupid" so we can't count on his innovations but perhaps we can for the sodium ion batteries since they do operate very similarly to the lithium ion batteries.

 

[Randyretired]

There is more than just technology that is hindering clean energy.  We were approached by a company inquiring about building a large solar array  on some of our land.  It turns out that finding land that is suitable and capable  of meeting zoning and such is hard to find.  The renewable energy company explained the NIMBY is a big hurdle and people don't want to look out and see wind generators and large solar arrays but this part of our land was naturally hidden by the terrain and yet was easily accessible and close to the city. However, the biggest hurdle they explained is the power grid.  It turns out there are only a few areas that the grid is large enough to handle large inputs and most of those are in the city.  We inquired with the local power company to see what was possible.  The $$$ to upgrade the grid was staggering and the project ended right there.

[Joe Spiker]

This is all well and good, but without some very serious upgrades to our current electrical grid it just plain ain't gonna work.  Case in point, California with their rolling blackouts during the peak summer temperatures because their grid can't handle the demand of all the AC units running.  Then throw in all them new "fangled" battery operated vehicles and someone is going to be out of power.  Actually a whole lot of somebodies.  And that type of power grid isn't only in CA, most of the country is not much better off in that regard.  On top of that, how many Power Companies do you see trying to upgrade their system so that they can handle that demand.  Let alone where is the power going to come from to supply the demand.  We know that neither solar or wind will do it.  Going to have to be some other kind of Power Generation developed to handle it.  But that's just my .02

 

Joe

[Big Rick]

3 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Higher charging rates are coming.  Rick, change is coming whether you like it or not.   Your saying the same things people were saying 100 years ago, 200 years ago, since time began. Change use to take decades, now 6 months might be a long time.  😎

Like I said, fifty years ago they were talking this, still has not happened. Will it one day, maybe but not likely anytime soon.

 

[NamMedevac 70]

Has anyone owned and had good luck with a hybrid vehicle???

[Alie&Jim's Carrilite]

So what are they gonna do with the billions of barrels of gasoline that will be the byproduct of the lubricant industry, the plastic industry, etc?

Gasoline was a byproduct that didn't have a demand until the car industry cranked up.

 

[jcussen]

9 minutes ago, NamMedevac 70 said:

Has anyone owned and had good luck with a hybrid vehicle???

Not a hybrid, I have a full EV. Installed $7000 worth of solar panels, solar controllers, used leaf batteries and a 220 volt inverter. By gas saving alone, the $7000 will be paid off in 5 years.  There are some good hybrid gas plugins though that combine the best of both worlds. The Honda Clarity is a good example.

 https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-plug-in-hybrid

[Big Rick]

Most people do not keep a vehicle for 5 years, hence all the new car sales

[Chalkie]

My son-in-law has a hybrid. He loves it. It sits a lot now as he mostly works from home, but he figures he gets about 45 mpg. 

 

[Barbaraok]

37 minutes ago, NamMedevac 70 said:

Has anyone owned and had good luck with a hybrid vehicle???

We love ours.  Ford C-Max Hybrid, which they discontinued and have no idea why because it is incredibly dependable. Tow it 4-down behind the motorhome.   We get over 50 mph, in city the engine seldom comes on, especially in traffic with a lot of braking going on.  Trick is to learn how to coast to the next light to take advantage of the braking charging the big battery.   Fill once a month, 10 gallons or less.    During this year with not being able to travel and having to isolate, only getting fuel every 60 days or so.  

[Barbaraok]

16 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

Most people do not keep a vehicle for 5 years, hence all the new car sales

We had our last car, before the hybrid, for 14 years.   Before that, usually 8-10 years or more.   

[Big Rick]

You did and I did, but most people don’t. You seem to project your thoughts and dealings to everyone else. I am glad you enjoy your hybrid. I have no use for one as I live out in the country, drive 250-300 hundred miles many days and one will not work for me.

Maybe one of these days but not at the present which is where I live.

[jcussen]

The Honda Clarity has a 48 mile electric only range, and 360 total miles per tank.

If you are just driving locally you can do it on electricity, for longer trips, fill up your gas tank.Know a couple of people that travel coast to coast yearly in a hybrid.

Edited January 14, 2021 by jcussen