GlennWest Posted January 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, rpsinc said: I have bought those size wires in specific lengths for jobs. Also have bought welding cable(totally different animal and priced accordingly but may be easier to work with in conduit) in specific lengths, at much cheaper than the local welding supply house, sometimes as much as 50% less per foot and many times free shipping. I really like welding cable. I am spoiled by it. But clamping it in a receptacle doesn't work well. Needs lugs. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpsinc Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, GlennWest said: I really like welding cable. I am spoiled by it. But clamping it in a receptacle doesn't work well. Needs lugs. Yes, as a welder, I like working with cable too, but as an equipment installer that does the electrical too, its not practical nor cost effective. If you were going to be building a battery bank, I would encourage you to wire it with welding cable, but if you are running a long run in conduit, use THHN. Still stranded and workable AND rated for that use. Since it will likely be worked with once, then the extra cost is not worth it, at least not in my world. Quote Marcel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance A Lott Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 Glenn I am not an electrician but I have run my house, shop and barn with a 200amp service for 35 years. I used 0000 aluminium direct underground no conduit 1000 feet from transformer to the pole. I moved my house another 150 feet 34 years ago and spliced the cable. 5 or six years ago it just stopped working on one branch I had to splice it again. It looked brand new when I dug it up, the brake was not at the splice it turned out to be over a ledge, I did put the new wire in conduit over the ledge. The 0000 aluminium is hard to bend but it was less than 2 a foot at Home Depot the last time I got some. The only other issue is a little dimming of the lights when I weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) Just running 50 amp to camper. My very first home was a single wide. I came into it with 4/0 aluminum. I cussed that wire to no end. Took wrenches to form it into the top of my box. When I wired my house I used copper. I just compared price and it is tempting. 2/0 aluminum has same drop as #1 copper. Direct burial 4 line just over $400.00. And 1/0 is $350.00. I get a 2.58% drop with it. Edited January 7, 2021 by GlennWest Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57becky Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 Run whatever size cable to a box where you will plug your rig into. At that box, terminate the cable into lugs that have two terminations so you can run the small cable from the termination to the breaker in your panel. Your larger cable will handle the voltage so you don't have the high voltage loss, and for the very short distance to the panel lugs, there will not be any voltage drop. I am a retired lineman, and worked with UG cable for over 35 years and aluminum is all we used, and you just need a compound to wire brush the bare aluminum with prior to inserting into the lugs to cut the oxide layer and prevent any future oxide layer from developing. Your cable should have a fairly hard insulation surface so it can be pulled through the conduit, as soft insulation, such as on welding cable, will have a lot of friction inside the conduit which will make it hard to pull. Also, use wide sweeping elbows when you make a 90 degree bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Depending on work this year, assuming it picks up, think I may want to build a small metal house. So going to run 4/0 to it. Will have it covered either way. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB673 Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 57Becky brought up the anti oxidant compounds when using Aluminum conductors, here are 3 examples: Penetrox (manufacturer Burndy) De-Ox (manufacturer Ilsco) Noalox (manufacturer Ideal Industries) After stripping the insulation, wire brush the conductors, and apply a liberal amount of compound to each before terminating. Also,if you end up using Copper conductors, eat your Wheaties. 500' of #1 THHN weighs about 150 lbs. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 hours ago, TB673 said: 57Becky brought up the anti oxidant compounds when using Aluminum conductors, here are 3 examples: Penetrox (manufacturer Burndy) De-Ox (manufacturer Ilsco) Noalox (manufacturer Ideal Industries) After stripping the insulation, wire brush the conductors, and apply a liberal amount of compound to each before terminating. Also,if you end up using Copper conductors, eat your Wheaties. 500' of #1 THHN weighs about 150 lbs. Good Luck. thanks Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Question. Do I need to run a 4 line set to camper/future house? I am thinking it good to run 3 cables, h/h)n. Make ground with earth rod at camper. Would save several hundred dollars. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Ground connections are made at the meter base. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Meter and post are 200' away. Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 27 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said: Ground connections are made at the meter base. Doesn't change anything. Quote I have been wrong before, I'll probably be wrong again. 2000 Kenworth T 2000 w/N-14 and 10 speed Gen1 Autoshift, deck built by Star Fabrication 2006 smart fourtwo cdi cabriolet 2007 32.5' Fleetwood QuantumPlease e-mail us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) So you saying I have to continue with ground from ulitity post to our home. Well locals will have to special order the wire. They are telling me to not run ground underground to home. Made ground with earth rod at home. Not trying to be argumentative. Getting conflicting info. Edited February 4, 2021 by GlennWest Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Schneider Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, GlennWest said: So you saying I have to continue with ground from ulitity post to our home. Well locals will have to special order the wire. They are telling me to not run ground underground to home. Made ground with earth rod at home. Not trying to be argumentative. Getting conflicting info. Neutral and ground are only connected together at one point. You can ground the meter if neutral is kept seperate there, then take hot and neutral to the house panel and bond them there, with ground provided by a grounding rod. Other panels downstream from the main panel (like a RV panel) are subpanels, with neutral and ground kept seperate. They can also have hot and neutral taken there with individual ground rods. The idea is to have all of the current return via the neutral wire, which will happen as long as only one point has neutral and ground bonded together. Bond neutral and ground in two places and part of the current will return through the ground. Edited February 4, 2021 by Lou Schneider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Ok. Understand. That is what they were telling me. Now my utility pole service has a box with breakers. Which I believe is required. If I don't combine neutral and ground there and do this at camper, can I still use service at pole? Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyretired Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 You might also check with the electric provider and the inspector. Years ago we required underground a couple hundred feet from the pole to our home. I had to set a meter and breaker box at the pole and the main service extended to the house. At that time a ground rod was required at the pole AND first box. 3 wires was all that was needed. The box at the pole could only have the run to the house and the well. This was the required method. Certainly different than anywhere else I have installed service. The inspector and power provider make the final call. Many will not allow any customer equipment on their poles. In that case it was required. Quote Randy 2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) The pole is existing. The realtor had a small mobile home at that area. I bought it and remaining lots. He removed mobile home. Wasn't much to it. So ground rod existing. But it has a breaker box. 200 amp main. I don't want to set up there due to closeness to road. I want to be near back of lot. This my 200ish run. As I understand I verify ground and neutral separate at pole. Connect ground and neutral at camper with a ground rod. It existing so no inspection. Want to keep breaker box there. Drive way there, actually two driveways on property. Electric service could come on handy there. Edited February 4, 2021 by GlennWest Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldjohnt Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Glenn, its been a while since I retired as a Power Distribution Design Engineer and I'm rusty on the latest codes, but when I practiced THERE COULD ONLY BE ONE NEUTRAL GROUND BOND. That's why in an RV panel, just like other sub panels fed off the main panel, THE EQUIPMENT GROUND BUSS AND NEUTRAL BUSS ARE SEPERATE INSULATED AND ISOLATED from each other. If the single Neutral Ground Bond has already been created (like at the main or other first disconnect) DO NOT bond them again later downstream. All return current is to be carried by the Neutral conductor NOTTTTTTTT the equipment GroundING Conductor NOTE earth Grounding of the Neutral IS NOT the same or serves the same purpose as Neutral Ground BONDING. Earth Grounding of the Neutral is for surge and lightning protection and to keep the grid at a common low voltage reference IE Mother Earth. Similar when I practiced any buildings electrical service required Grounding so say there was perhaps an outbuildings Sub Panel it still required Grounding BUT NOT BONDING (ONLY a single Bond remember) . DISCLAIMER I'm long retired from Power Distribution Design Engineering and codes change so no warranty, this is however how it was when I last practiced ONLY ONE NEUTRAL GROUND BOND... John T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyretired Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 After the service entrance all codes are nearly the same. The ground is bonded in the main panel and the grounds are wired and NOT bonded at additional panels. You will require 4 wires. Quote Randy 2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 But what if I disconnect the neutral to ground at the pole and reconnect at camper? Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyretired Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 Pretty sure that is not allowed by code and I wouldn't do it. Bonded ground in the 1st or main panel and all additional panels are 4 wire for 240v. Ground and neutral separate. Quote Randy 2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyretired Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 What size and type of wire are you planning on running? Quote Randy 2001 Volvo VNL 42 Cummins ISX Autoshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 4/0 aluminum burial Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb0zke Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 When you run the underground conduit please take the extra care to properly support the conduit at the proper depth. Many years ago a conduit was put under a rock alley. Some years later the rock was removed and asphalt installed. The conduit was installed by simply digging a small trench, placing the conduit down, and shoveling the dirt back on top. Conduit is now trash. Later, when the weather improves, we'll have to dig it all up and do it right. At least the wires in the trashed conduit aren't connected to anything at either end, and we're going to install at least two and probably four conduits to provide for future needs. Distance is only about 50 feet or less, but still will be a fair amount of work. Quote David Lininger, kb0zke 1993 Foretravel U300 40' (sold) 2022 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennWest Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Was planning direct burial. Conduit not costly but had not planned on it Quote 2003 Teton Grand Freedom towed with 2006 Freightliner Century 120 across the beautiful USA welding pipe.https://photos.app.goo.gl/O32ZjgzSzgK7LAyt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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