Undertrucked?

[Jinx & Wayne]

14 hours ago, packnrat said:

maybe i can sell the tail gate?

There certainly are enough people who could use it!  There are two types of 5er owners - those who have dropped their rigs, and those who haven't - yet.  Many of the former can be identified by large crush marks on the top of the tailgate.

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

[durangodon]

I've personally witnessed three people drop their fifth wheel trailer on their truck while starting to leave.  The tailgate wasn't damaged in any of those cases.  There were creases in the bed sides on two of the trucks and no damage to the third.

[Jinx & Wayne]

3 minutes ago, durangodon said:

I've personally witnessed three people drop their fifth wheel trailer on their truck while starting to leave.  The tailgate wasn't damaged in any of those cases.  There were creases in the bed sides on two of the trucks and no damage to the third.

I've seen those results, too. I've not yet been present for a drop. 

Where or if the damage occurs depends upon the tailgate and jack positions at the time of the drop.  If it drops with both the tailgate and jacks up it will hit the tailgate first. If it drops with the tailgate down and the jacks up it will hit the sides, first.  If the jacks are retracted only an inch and the hitch is tested by trying to ease forward with the chocks still in place, no damage damage occurs if the hitch connection fails, regardless of tailgate position - it only drops an inch.  I dropped mine with the jacks up an inch.  The hitch looked fine but it was not quite latched.  Raising the jacks an inch and testing with the tailgate down is on my checklist.  Written checklist.  It gets checked off as things are done.  Every time.  Checklist, checklist, checklist!

Not my truck.

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

[mptjelgin]

3 hours ago, Jinx & Wayne said:

There are two types of 5er owners - those who have dropped their rigs, and those who haven't - yet. 

Ah, this old saw. 20+ years with a fifth wheel and never even a close call.  It really isn't that difficult a problem to avoid. 

One good way is to avoid the common two-jaw hitches by using something like a Pullrite with the single 270 degree jaw. It either closes correctly or it doesn't. Someone might be able to figure out how to incorrectly hitch a trailer with this hitch, but I can't see how. 

[rpsinc]

15 hours ago, sandsys said:

That might affect your fuel mileage.

When someone's 1st question about my MDT for sale is:  "What is the fuel economy when towing?"  I know they are not prepared for this journey.  If that is your early considerations, then go do more learning.  I have no idea what my MPG is, I bought the truck because it was the right truck for the job and MPG is not as important as safety, mine and those on the road around me.  I still remember in Driver's Training, the instructor taught we are responsible for 5 vehicles when we are driving.  That has stuck with me all these years, and I learned to drive in 1974.

[D&J]

1 hour ago, mptjelgin said:

Ah, this old saw. 20+ years with a fifth wheel and never even a close call.  It really isn't that difficult a problem to avoid. 

One good way is to avoid the common two-jaw hitches by using something like a Pullrite with the single 270 degree jaw. It either closes correctly or it doesn't. Someone might be able to figure out how to incorrectly hitch a trailer with this hitch, but I can't see how. 

I've been pulling 5vers for 32 years and have never come close to dropping one and I used a two jaw Reese hitch for its most of the time. I did replace my aging 20K Reese with a Pullrite SuperLite this year and I know I will never drop this one plus no moving parts except for the release pin.

Denn6

[rickeieio]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:03 AM, Jinx & Wayne said:

The other alternative is to reduce the weight of the RV in a manner that reduces the pin weight. 

This is potentially a very dangerous path.  Ideally you want about 20-25% of your fifth wheel trailer weight on the hitch.  Less than that can cause an oscillation between trailer and tow vehicle that can end badly.  I've witnessed it in a toyhauler towed by an hdt, and have a friend who totaled his rig twice (slow learner) under similar conditions. 

If you can't afford enough truck, get a smaller trailer. Whatever, be safe.

[Jinx & Wayne]

1 hour ago, rickeieio said:

This is potentially a very dangerous path. 

Thank you.  I apologize for a bad suggestion.

Wayne & Jinx
2017 F-350 diesel, dually
2006 Carriage Carri-Lite 36KSQ

[rickeieio]

2 hours ago, Jinx & Wayne said:

Thank you.  I apologize for a bad suggestion.

 

Please don't take me wrong.  It's only a bad idea when the laws of physics become violated.  Ask the folks who weigh rigs, and you'll hear that these rigs are commonly overloaded, and in many of those cases, you're suggestion might be entirely correct.

I believe it was U-Haul that has a video of an improperly balanced rig, and how it becomes unstable.  It was a toy tow vehicle and trailer running on a little tread mill.  They shifted the weight and it got real weird.

I know of folks with new DRV fifth wheels that are having stability issues, behind an HDT.  Bigger truck might not be the cure.

[Mark and Kelly]

As a newbie I need to be way more versed on weight than I am. We have that 36 foot open road 5er and I've read the weight in the owners manual. I guess I've seen some differences in the rating of the towing capacity depending on the layout of the truck. We are pulling with a chevy 2500 hd crewcab long bed. That set up adds a substantial towing capacity. I know I can't use this as a reference, but when i hook up to the fifth wheel and lower the weight onto the truck-it does not drop down or act like any weight has been lowered on it!! I might mention that the motor is an 8.1 gasser.

I towed a 37 foot montana up I-40 outside of albuquerque(spelling) up steep incline and it wanted to gain speed and going against a headwind of 30mph. The breaking coming down was no problem. I guess i am fortunate.

PS, I did have to fight with costco to put the proper pressure in my new Michelin tires. I insisted on 80lbs rear and 55 on the fronts. I wonder if people don't even put the right pressure  in their tires??

I am learning so much from these posts. Do you post your weights along with your trailer height in your truck?

[sandsys]

2 hours ago, Mark and Kelly said:

Do you post your weights along with your trailer height in your truck?

No, but I wish we had when we approached a small rural bridge and had to hope it held us.

Linda Sand

[Jinx & Wayne]

3 hours ago, Mark and Kelly said:

I need to be way more versed on weight than I am.

Escapees has a SmartWeigh program available in Florida, Arizona and Texas.  You van get your rig weighed and measured for a reasonable price. I've never used truck scales, but someone here may be able to tell you the process.

[Vladimir]

2 hours ago, Jinx & Wayne said:

Escapees has a SmartWeigh program available in Florida, Arizona and Texas.  You van get your rig weighed and measured for a reasonable price. I've never used truck scales, but someone here may be able to tell you the process.

I did have my rig weighed at Congress.

It is worth doing just for the information you will learn. 

I knew I was well within weight limits.  The surprise was how close I was to my weight limit, with a large truck and a small 5th wheel.

After that.... I stay far, far away from EVERY RV going down the road.

[sandsys]

Smart Weigh also weighs each wheel individually to help you lean how balanced, or unbalanced, your loading is. My van drove better once I balanced my load.

Linda Sand

[noteven]

Anyone ever tow a goose neck / fifth wheel style stock/ horse trailer?

Axles where they belong not half way up the trailer chassis, center of gravity low to the ground. 

They tow like they are on rails, don’t weathervane around in cross winds,  and ride very well. 

 

[GlennWest]

deleted

Edited January 14, 2021 by GlennWest

[GlennWest]

On 1/10/2021 at 11:25 AM, D&J said:

I've been pulling 5vers for 32 years and have never come close to dropping one and I used a two jaw Reese hitch for its most of the time. I did replace my aging 20K Reese with a Pullrite SuperLite this year and I know I will never drop this one plus no moving parts except for the release pin.

Denn6

I got one of those hitches and it actually fell apart. Bought new bolts and put back together. Got rid of it 

[D&J]

43 minutes ago, GlennWest said:

I got one of those hitches and it actually fell apart. Bought new bolts and put back together. Got rid of it 

What part of it fell apart.

Denny

[GlennWest]

The bolts holding it together broke. The ones on the sides. It wasn't overloaded either. Was at max though. Mine was the ISR model. 20k.

Edited January 14, 2021 by GlennWest

[D&J]

1 hour ago, GlennWest said:

The bolts holding it together broke. The ones on the sides. It wasn't overloaded either. Was at max though. Mine was the ISR model. 20k.

All the side bolts do is hold it in place not hold it together, they may have been over torqued or the 4 3/8" bolts were to tight, they are only supposed to be torqued to 20 ftl lbs. But on mine they don't even do that because I bolted it solid to the pinbox plate with 4 1/2 bolts.

Denny

[GlennWest]

9 hours ago, D&J said:

All the side bolts do is hold it in place not hold it together, they may have been over torqued or the 4 3/8" bolts were to tight, they are only supposed to be torqued to 20 ftl lbs. But on mine they don't even do that because I bolted it solid to the pinbox plate with 4 1/2 bolts.

Denny

Mine was  different from yours. The ISR is held together with bolts. They are only 1" or so. With them out it will collapse. Until I enlarged pic thought you had the same model. The tubular design is an improvement.

[D&J]

9 hours ago, GlennWest said:

Mine was  different from yours. The ISR is held together with bolts. They are only 1" or so. With them out it will collapse. Until I enlarged pic thought you had the same model. The tubular design is an improvement.

I thought you were talking about the pin adapter thats very well built. Mine is also called called a 2400 ISR Superlite, the ISR stands for Industry Standard Rails. My hitch is completely welded with no bolts holding it together, the only bolts are the ones that stop the reciever from moving after the hight is set by adjustment pin. I'm don't know what hitch you had but it wasn't a SuperLite. 

Denny

[GlennWest]

4 minutes ago, D&J said:

I thought you were talking about the pin adapter thats very well built. Mine is also called called a 2400 ISR Superlite, the ISR stands for Industry Standard Rails. My hitch is completely welded with no bolts holding it together, the only bolts are the ones that stop the reciever from moving after the hight is set by adjustment pin. I'm don't know what hitch you had but it wasn't a SuperLite. 

Denny

It was the Pullrite ISR 20k

[hemsteadc]

On 12/28/2020 at 4:38 AM, durangodon said:

How do you make that little degree mark on a computer keyboard?

I find it difficult to understand why, after all these years of computing, keyboard layouts still do not have the degree symbol, but are replete with a lot of other weird characters that only programmers use. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by hemsteadc

[Ray,IN]

If you want to view  "under-trucked" visit a DRV rally and observe the tow vehicles. Last one I walked through had 3/4T pickups parked in front of about 1/2 the 5ers, almost all the rest had 1T pickups, there was 2 HDT tow vehicles there.

I always recommend this online calculator to anyone asking about weights and tow vehicles: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-fw.shtml

It is accurate when the directions are followed. I really like the option to choose a weight safety margin for tow vehicle safety and longevity.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Ray,IN