Do you flush the TP or trash it?

[Barbaraok]

28 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

2x a week?  Wow!  10 min per?  Wow again.  

Must be very small tanks.  Our black tank is 82 gallons, the grey is 100 gallons.  Dump  once every 12 days or so, usually the afternoon noon before we leave if traveling.   And thinking that the TP is what can cause the pyramid of doom inside the black tank is false.  It is fecal matter that dries out.  By keeping the dump valves open I assume using lots of water with each flush which is why they haven't had a problem.     All fecal matter will smell as it decays, the question then becomes how much fecal matter is on the used tissue, which depends upon the digestive tract of each individual and their anatomy.  For some higher water content will mean more TP needed to complete cleansing, for others lower water content will mean less TP needed.   

Edited December 5, 2020 by Barbaraok

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

And thinking that the TP is what can cause the pyramid of doom inside the black tank is false.  It is fecal matter that dries out.  By keeping the dump valves open I assume using lots of water with each flush which is why they haven't had a problem.

I suspect that you are right about that but that there is also much more to the situation. The physical location of the toilet's entry into the black tank in relation to the drain line exit from the tank play a major role as well. But this is also kind of like choosing not to wear a seatbelt. You may get away with either one for a long time, but that doesn't mean that it will never happen. I remember being in an RV shop in Ft. Worth, TX some years ago when the shop manager told a customer that his problem dumping was due to a buildup of waste in his black tank and that his shop would not work on a full waste tank.  The tech asked the customer about his dumping practices and the reply was that he parks for a month or longer and leaves all dump valves open. When the tech said that he suspected that was the cause of the problem, his customer responded, "How can that be? I have done it that way for years!" Sometimes it can take years for the waste to build up enough to be a problem, but it usually does happen eventually. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Kirk W

[remoandiris]

5 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Must be very small tanks.  Our black tank is 82 gallons, the grey is 100 gallons.  Dump  once every 12 days or so, usually the afternoon noon before we leave if traveling.   And thinking that the TP is what can cause the pyramid of doom inside the black tank is false.  It is fecal matter that dries out.  By keeping the dump valves open I assume using lots of water with each flush which is why they haven't had a problem.     All fecal matter will smell as it decays, the question then becomes how much fecal matter is on the used tissue, which depends upon the digestive tract of each individual and their anatomy.  For some higher water content will mean more TP needed to complete cleansing, for others lower water content will mean less TP needed.   

That is why I said wow.  But you probably meant to quote gjhunter instead of me.

Edited December 5, 2020 by remoandiris

[remoandiris]

6 hours ago, docj said:

 put  ~2/3 cup of borax and ~2/3 cup of washing soda into the tank after each flush. 

After each "toilet" flush or each "tank" flush?

[docj]

1 hour ago, remoandiris said:

After each "toilet" flush or each "tank" flush?

Sorry, I should have been more precise in my wording.  I add the borax and washing soda each time I drain and flush the tank. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by docj

[remoandiris]

That is what I thought, but you never know.

[docj]

8 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

That is what I thought, but you never know.

A lot of black tank recipes are designed to ensure that the walls of the tank are "slippery".  That's the reason for the use of Calgon, Dawn, etc.  Washing soda is an inexpensive low-suds detergent that appears to accomplish that objective.  

Edited December 5, 2020 by docj

[Jinx & Wayne]

2 hours ago, docj said:

A lot of black tank recipes are designed to ensure that the walls of the tank are "slippery".

I believe the issue is not so much making the walls "slippery" for an extended period of time as breaking down the fat that has accumulated on the walls.  I say that because immediately after a run with nothing but water, borax and Dawn in the tank I dump.  I get a lot of dark flow from the black water tank where water tank flush flow is mostly clear. That suggests that there has been something dislodged/dissolved by the cleaning mix while traveling.  My best guess is fat from feces.  Feces contains 2-7 g of fat per day per person.  For two folks in a RV dumping every 4 days that is 1/2 to 2 ounces of fat that is available to adhere to the walls. I don't think the cleaning solution will continue to make the walls slippery because both borax and soaps are used in cleaning because they rinse out easily.

[Barbaraok]

4 hours ago, remoandiris said:

That is why I said wow.  But you probably meant to quote gjhunter instead of me.

I was replying to your wow in that I agree, wow,, and it must be small tanks.

[Randyretired]

When we move I always like to empty the holding tanks and put in a few gallons of clear water.  Then dump again when we arrive.  Typically the water is no longer clear.  Then every few times I add detergent.  That also dirties the water.

[Barbaraok]

I wash dishes in a dishpan, and a couple of times a week dump a dish pan full of dirty, sudsy water.  The soap will surround fat globules and help to suspend them un water, which is why you use soap for cleaning.  Use baking soda to clean the toilet, just enough grit, and it helps to buffer water in toilet to allow any bacteria to work on the wastes.   Also after washing fill toilet bowl with vinegar to cover seal and let it sit for a while, it will dissolve calcium, magnesium residue from hard water.  Plus it also buffers the tank when rinsed down.  Also put bicarbonate down each drain every week to help keep them ‘sweet’.

[gjhunter01]

On 12/5/2020 at 9:47 AM, Pat & Pete said:

I had to wonder about that , too . 

I figure more like a minute per dump , as it get s done on the way to or form something else . 

But , maybe he just likes to take his break from the riggers of full timing while dumping ?  

My calculation is just a guess based on watching others dump, since I don't need to do that chore! It takes most people a min just to get out of the RV over to the dump valves, then they stand there drinking a cup of coffee while waiting for the tanks to drain. It don't look like a fun job from my view point and I don't care to make it part of my routine. Anyway you look at it, I have saved alot of hours not manually dumping waste tanks and there is always the risk of forgetting to dump on schedule and having to make a last minute dash. 

I also use a couple of gallons of water and 2 dish soap packets to slosh around the black tank on travel days and on the second or third travel day, the tank dump will be clear water. I believe my black waste tank is solid waste free, after 8 years of left open valves.

Another false comment is that fecal matter uses more water to dissolve than TP. The dry paper and the glue used in TP manufacturing needs lots of water to dissolve and the poop domes you see in out door toilets are caused from the toilet paper. On the farm, manure was always a slurry unless you added straw or wood chips to firm the manure up. Human waste is no different which is already at a high moisture content compared to dry TP. We don't use extra water when flushing, in fact we make an extra effort to conserve water when flushing by doing quick flushes.

I was reluctant to post this observation in my earlier FT years, but now I have the actual results that leaving the valves open when FHU's are available does work and it works well. I'm just passing along observations from my experiment, it is not my goal to challenge other peoples proven methods or to change their ways if they don't want too. I am not the only person that has tried successfully this open method. I do have issues with critics that have never actually tried the open dump valve process, but that is just human nature to criticize something they don't understand!

Edited December 7, 2020 by gjhunter01

[sandsys]

On 12/5/2020 at 9:19 AM, remoandiris said:

2x a week?  Wow!  10 min per?  Wow again.  

For those of us who choose not to leave the dump hose out ten minutes is about right to get the hose out of storage, hook it up, dump, rinse, unhook, and store the hose. Some Class B RVs have black tanks of eight gallon capacity; how often do you think they need to dump?

Linda Sand

[bigjim]

6 hours ago, sandsys said:

eight gallon capacity;

That is a surprise but of course I never knew or thought about it. I forget what it is but I looked at Casita trlr cap and thought that was a bit low at the time. Not necessarily surprising.  With an 8=10 gal. cap. how much starter water do you start with.  IE: I have one at least 34-40 gal and I usually put in about 2 gal of water.  I am a single and I usually dump about every 14 days give or take. Sometime a little sooner in pretty extended freezing spells.

 

 

 

 

[richfaa]

Put it in the trash…. I just threw up in my mouth.

[remoandiris]

9 hours ago, sandsys said:

Some Class B RVs have black tanks of eight gallon capacity; how often do you think they need to dump?

Linda Sand

So you're saying that poster spent 8 yrs fulltiming in a Class B?  Interesting he didn't say that himself.

[Pat & Pete]

24 minutes ago, remoandiris said:

So you're saying that poster spent 8 yrs fulltiming in a Class B?  Interesting he didn't say that himself.

Hmm , does 8 GALLONS equal 8 years ? 

Maybe I missed something . 

[bigjim]

2 hours ago, richfaa said:

Put it in the trash…. I just threw up in my mouth.

To be clear it goes into bathroom trash lined with a bag and for some with a lid on it. NOT kitchen garbage.   At one point as a kid one of  my jobs in the morning was to empty the slop jar.  Sometimes called a goazunder in Austrailia I was told. (as in goes under the bed- until needed)  If you don't know what I mean ask someone old that lived in the deep country with no running water or indoor plumbing.   Another of my jobs was to provide running water as in running out with a bucket and running back in.

[richfaa]

22 hours ago, bigjim said:

To be clear it goes into bathroom trash lined with a bag and for some with a lid on it. NOT kitchen garbage.   At one point as a kid one of  my jobs in the morning was to empty the slop jar.  Sometimes called a goazunder in Austrailia I was told. (as in goes under the bed- until needed)  If you don't know what I mean ask someone old that lived in the deep country with no running water or indoor plumbing.   Another of my jobs was to provide running water as in running out with a bucket and running back in.

We ran water and filled the bucket from the outdoor pump at our hunting camp but we had a outhouse. We cut wood for the  stove.

[bigjim]

 we were a little uptown  in that we had propane but we caught rainwater off the roof in  a 500 gal. above ground cistern. At times we really had to manage water usage but in general usually had plenty this was about 1 1/2 hours by road n.east of Rainbows End at Livingston. We kind of gave up on the outhouse in that area as the critters and spiders etc. were almost impossible to control from inhabiting it.   We did try to go far enough away and find a new bush pretty often.   Talk about  enjoying it when we finally got community water and eventually a septic system.  Better than being wealthy and having a mansion.  Unless it was really cold rain I often ran out with a bar of soap. 

[Randyretired]

Some years ago we looked at a farm to purchase and when we pulled into the drive it had the outhouse.  My DW told me "for better or worse doesn't include  THAT been there done that."  We did buy it and it had a new house with plumbing.

[sandsys]

My in-laws had 20 wooded acres up north in Minnesota. We had electricity but no running water, not even a source on the land, we drove to the state forest to get water. We had an "out"--no house. No spiders. We put a red toilet seat on it so hunters would be more likely to see someone using it although we pretty much stayed away during hunting season.

Linda Sand

[Ray,IN]

mobile outhouse

Edited December 9, 2020 by Ray,IN