noteven Posted October 27, 2020 Report Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) In cold temperatures there is a point where the propane stops boiling into vapor and supply will stop to your appliances. Sometimes people refer to this as “freezing up” but it is actually lack of boiling... Charts are available with vessel sizes, btu/hr demand, outside temperature limits. Around -20F cylinders are getting to their limit to supply my trailer’s furnaces. The 80gal pig is ok. Edited October 28, 2020 by noteven too many words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXiceman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) Pure propane stops vaporizing at -44.42 deg, at 14.7 psia. At -20 degF, the heat absorbed by the bottle has to exceed the refrigerating effect of the vaporizing propane. The liquid propane will reach -44-42 degF and stop vaporizing. You can always put a heat lamp on the tank to raise the temperature. Edited October 28, 2020 by TXiceman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 3 hours ago, TXiceman said: Pure propane stops vaporizing at -44.42 deg, at 14.7 psig. At -20 degF, the heat absorbed by the bottle has to exceed the refrigerating effect of the vaporizing propane. The liquid propane will reach -44-42 degF and stop vaporizing. You can always put a heat lamp on the tank to raise the temperature. Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinx & Wayne Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 17 hours ago, noteven said: round -20F cylinders are getting to their limit to supply my trailer’s furnaces. We had to laugh. One of the reasons we have a RV is never having to see -20 again. Wayne and Jinx from Maine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 12 hours ago, TXiceman said: Pure propane stops vaporizing at -44.42 deg, at 14.7 psig. At -20 degF, the heat absorbed by the bottle has to exceed the refrigerating effect of the vaporizing propane. The liquid propane will reach -44-42 degF and stop vaporizing. You can always put a heat lamp on the tank to raise the temperature. 8 hours ago, Ray,IN said: Exactly! Not quite. The pressure isn't measured in psig, but psia. 14.7 psig would still be enough pressure for RV appliances to operate. Sadly, they won't operate in those temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 What's the Difference Between PSI, PSIA, & PSIG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJohns Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 I wonder how many folks would still be in the camper at -20 to -40? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl&Rita Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, DJohns said: I wonder how many folks would still be in the camper at -20 to -40? Done it. Didn't enjoy it. It almost turns into work, just existing. Add a full time job at the same temperatures, makes winter long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpsinc Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 I wonder if a cheap furniture blanket around the tanks in the compartment would be helpful. A lamp also can help as long as it isnt LED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXiceman Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 My bad, I know the difference between PSIA and PSIG and mis-typed. Corrected the original post to read PSIA. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjim Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Not fat fingers, brain outrunning fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch_12078 Posted October 28, 2020 Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 Propane cylinder/tank heater blankets are commonly used in the colder parts of the US and Canada: https://www.amazon.com/Powerblanket-PBL20-Cylinder-Propane-Charcoal/dp/B00PKKHC2Y/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Jinx & Wayne said: We had to laugh. One of the reasons we have a RV is never having to see -20 again. Wayne and Jinx from Maine That’s not funny you guys😆. Signed, Snowbird grounded in western Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted October 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2020 I started the thread hoping someone with proper knowledge would contribute which they are. The situation has altered lots of wintering plans for people. Yes you can blanket and heat cylinders - I’ve done that. That kind of weather also adds needing to fill frequently chores which is a nuisance. I have a 80gal pig at base camp. It is large enough to supply adequate fuel without cover or heating it. Delivered to my location my supplier charges 1/2 of cylinder fill price. It’s 25miles one way to fill cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Dreamer Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 I can "Freeze up" my 30# tank for my generator in about 6 hours of running at 50 degrees outside temp. A 20# tank does it in about 3 hours. Basically the generator is sucking more gas than the tank can convert from liquid to gas. I may have to try a tank heater next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjim Posted October 29, 2020 Report Share Posted October 29, 2020 Too bad there is not a way to use the exhaust from the generator to heat the thank. Safely of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinx & Wayne Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 10/28/2020 at 2:18 PM, noteven said: Snowbird grounded in western Canada My sympathies. Is there any way to get a really big pig and delivery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noteven Posted October 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jinx & Wayne said: My sympathies. Is there any way to get a really big pig and delivery? Thanks. My 80gal (320 lbs) lasts quite a while and refills are delivered. 20 hours ago, bigjim said: Too bad there is not a way to use the exhaust from the generator to heat the thank. Safely of course. You could do that with some aluminum dryer vent pipe. I've used a small electric heater under a blankie. Edited October 30, 2020 by noteven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 4:55 PM, Star Dreamer said: I can "Freeze up" my 30# tank for my generator in about 6 hours of running at 50 degrees outside temp. A 20# tank does it in about 3 hours. Basically the generator is sucking more gas than the tank can convert from liquid to gas. I may have to try a tank heater next. The small surface area is the problem LP only vaporizes at the surface of the liquid form, which is why larger horizontal tanks are preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjim Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Ray,IN said: The small surface area is the problem LP only vaporizes at the surface of the liquid form, which is why larger horizontal tanks are preferre I am fairly sure propane forklifts us a horizontal cylinder for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beemergary Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 Smaller the tank the bigger the problem. You want them cold to fill but warm to empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynosback Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) On 10/28/2020 at 11:51 AM, Dutch_12078 said: Propane cylinder/tank heater blankets are commonly used in the colder parts of the US and Canada: https://www.amazon.com/Powerblanket-PBL20-Cylinder-Propane-Charcoal/dp/B00PKKHC2Y/ $160......... a heating pad and a ace bandage should keep that tank warm. As a fulltime RVer sometimes I have to come up with creative solutions with what I carry with me. Edited October 31, 2020 by rynosback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray,IN Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 hours ago, bigjim said: I am fairly sure propane forklifts us a horizontal cylinder for that reason. Forktrucks run on liquid propane only. Appliances use vaporized propane, the cylinder/tank valving must be above the liquid level. High output appliance burners consume propane faster than it can vaporize in containers with a small diameter during cold weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk W Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 10 hours ago, bigjim said: I am fairly sure propane forklifts us a horizontal cylinder for that reason. From propane 101: Quote Propane powered forklifts primarily use 33 pound cylinders as their fuel source and are equipped for liquid service. Because the cylinders are designed for liquid service, they have to be placed properly on the lift truck to operate correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch_12078 Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 11 hours ago, rynosback said: $160......... a heating pad and a ace bandage should keep that tank warm. As a fulltime RVer sometimes I have to come up with creative solutions with what I carry with me. Make sure it's a weatherproof heating pad unless your cylinders are enclosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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