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Brake controller/Jackalopee problem

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I have a Hayes Air over electric brake controller that feeds a Jackalopee box. Now 4 weeks into our trip, the trailer brakes are on all the time. Creates smoke from the trailer brakes. Not a good thing.Everything was perfect when I left home base up until yesterday.

When I plug in the power to the Hayes, it lights up the controller like the brakes are on.

The Jackalopee has the LED for break level lit full brighness. Have no clue where that power is coming from.

When I check the truck side RV plug without the Hayes powered, I get 8v DC. With the Hayes connected, I get 12v at the RV plug between the brake wire and ground wire.

Why, all of sudden, does this go sideways when it's good for weeks, then there's unwanted voltage in the brake line?

Any thoughts where I should start checking appreciated. I'm in Albuquerque, NM trying to figure this out. 

Bob 

 

Edited by trimster

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Can't afford that conversion and not worth it on this trailer.

So, Here's what I have found:

- 12v from battery directly to Hayes

- Blue wire from Hayes (goes to Jackalopee to control the brakes) 8v dc all the time. 

- Manually adjust the Hayes to full braking, no change in Blue wire voltage.

- Disconnect  B+ (black wire) to the Hayes and the Jackalopee LED goes off.

Seems like the internals of the Hayes have failed in some way.

 

Bob

Edited by trimster
Corrected wire colors

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12 minutes ago, Alie&Jim's Carrilite said:

I went thru 2 Hayes and dropped down to  P-3.  Most people with newer trucks go with the Tucson brake control set up.  Plug and play.

Found the P-3's. Are they sensitive enough to respond to the HDT braking movement?

The Tucson LT version is on back order. Has been for a while. Ugh.

Bob

Edited by trimster

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1 hour ago, trimster said:

Found the P-3's. Are they sensitive enough to respond to the HDT braking movement?

The Tucson LT version is on back order. Has been for a while. Ugh.

Bob

Took some trial and error, but it works... better than a nothing solution.  I'm not putting BluDot on this DRV due to other issues, and Tucson didn't read the truck computer system.  Didn't want another Hayes so I took the better than nothing approach.

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Well, sorry about your problems, but I am relieved to find others with Hayes controller problems. Everybody told me how great they were and ii tried my best to get mine to work. But I really like the Blue dot system. 

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I went with a P3 and it works think it works great. My bigger trailer is a tri axle gooseneck, hit the brake boost button on the P3 one time for loaded or leave it off for empty, and it brakes just fine. TT is light enough the brakes are just there to be proper.

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Had my Hayes for about a year and then it went TU so I took it out.  It's a pos that's still sitting on my work bench.  Bought the Tucson.  Did not think it would work because my rig is a 1997 Volvo but plugged it in and everything worked fine.  We have been from NC to CA and back.  Works beautifully.

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Oh dear.  I am feeling bad.  The Hayes worked fine for me, just put out too much when converted to electric over hydraulic.  It only takes .8 amps to lock up the brakes with hydraulic controller and the Hayes does not have a limiter.  

"When I check the truck side RV plug without the Hayes powered, I get 8v DC. With the Hayes connected, I get 12v at the RV plug between the brake wire and ground wire." Does this mean black wire is disconnected (or fuse pulled) and you get 8VDC?  Where would it be coming from?  With the 12 VDC black wire disconnected, the voltage cannot be coming from the Hayes.  

You would have to add the Jackolopee to this diagram.

tKvrmz3l.png "border=0
m3zZPvb.pngClick For Full-Size Image.

 

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18 hours ago, trimster said:

When I plug in the power to the Hayes, it lights up the controller like the brakes are on.

The Jackalopee has the LED for break level lit full brighness. Have no clue where that power is coming from.

When I check the truck side RV plug without the Hayes powered, I get 8v DC. With the Hayes connected, I get 12v at the RV plug between the brake wire and ground wire.

I can't get past the Hayes power being disconnected and getting any voltage at the trailer connector blue wire to ground.  I am assuming the trailer is disconnected and you are measuring at the pins on the connector, not the back-side or at the jackalopee.  

If this were mine, I would start by disconnecting the TRUCK side trailer brake wire to the Jackalopee.  If the voltage is still there, disconnect the Aux 12VDC from the TRUCK side of the Jackalpeee.

Remember, if the trailer is disconnected from the truck, a normal condition is to read 12VDC (open circuit voltage)  at the truck's trailer connector.  This stumps a lot of people.  Basically, with no current flow, all the electrons flow to the open circuit and stack up there and you will see battery voltage stacked up there waiting for some place to go.  

Call me if you still have the number.

Chet

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If you are still in Albuquerque, NM, we are up in Santa Fe and I think I have my Prodigy brake controller that I removed when I went I went to the Direct Link. I was able to reuse the Prodigy wiring so not sure if I have the Direct Link wiring with me. Also I can't remember if it is the P2 or the P3. Let me know if I need to verify.

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Star Dreamer  we are,  and will be  visiting Santa Fe Friday or Saturday. 

I found a P3 which is on its way.  

I did probe around with my meter more yesterday. It definitely seem to be the Hayes failure. After I finished, I left the Hayes powered. Hours later it was more than just warm. A good indication something is wrong inside.

I have a friends truck here and we're hooking to the trailer to see if his controller throws any error that might point to trailer side problems. 

Thanks. 

Bob

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12 hours ago, trimster said:

Star Dreamer  we are,  and will be  visiting Santa Fe Friday or Saturday. 

I found a P3 which is on its way.  

I did probe around with my meter more yesterday. It definitely seem to be the Hayes failure. After I finished, I left the Hayes powered. Hours later it was more than just warm. A good indication something is wrong inside.

I have a friends truck here and we're hooking to the trailer to see if his controller throws any error that might point to trailer side problems. 

Thanks. 

Bob

We are in Santa Fe Skies RV park if you are headed there. If you get here Friday, stop by and say hi, we are in D19. Have a safe trip.

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Bit of a good twist in this whole Hayes controller thing. I emailed Hayes, explaining what's going on. I didn't sugar coat my dismay that their unit would work fine for the previous owner and weeks for me, then fail. I also indicated that there's more than just a few who have experienced failures...often consecutive. Here's their response:

"Good morning Robert,

Thank you for contacting us and making us aware of the issue you have experienced. We appreciate your being candid about not being the original owner of the controller. If you provide the address we will overnight you a new controller for your installation and evaluation. We will include a pre-paid return label for you to send the controller in question back. After our technical team evaluates the unit we will get back with you on the results.

Regardless of the threads on RV forums, our intentions are to 100% support our products. We take pride in customer satisfaction. With that said, we are not perfect and we do have units that fail in the field periodically.

I look forward to receiving your reply so that we can move toward a solution to your problem.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,  "

Yup, taking them up on their offer. I'll keep you'all posted.

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11 minutes ago, trimster said:

Bit of a good twist in this whole Hayes controller thing. I emailed Hayes, explaining what's going on. I didn't sugar coat my dismay that their unit would work fine for the previous owner and weeks for me, then fail. I also indicated that there's more than just a few who have experienced failures...often consecutive. Here's their response:

"Good morning Robert,

Thank you for contacting us and making us aware of the issue you have experienced. We appreciate your being candid about not being the original owner of the controller. If you provide the address we will overnight you a new controller for your installation and evaluation. We will include a pre-paid return label for you to send the controller in question back. After our technical team evaluates the unit we will get back with you on the results.

Regardless of the threads on RV forums, our intentions are to 100% support our products. We take pride in customer satisfaction. With that said, we are not perfect and we do have units that fail in the field periodically.

I look forward to receiving your reply so that we can move toward a solution to your problem.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,  "

Yup, taking them up on their offer. I'll keep you'all posted.

Trimester....when mine failed, I called the company and talked to an "engineer".  He said...."yeh, well that happens".  Told me he could do nothing for me.  I'm thinking I told him something about a boar hog, uselessness and mammary glands.... something to that effect.  Anyway I broke bad with the Direct Link and have been very satisfied.  I DO NOTICED RECOMMEND THE HAYES PRODUCT.

Ben...'Chief916'

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Just now, chief916 said:

Trimester....when mine failed, I called the company and talked to an "engineer".  He said...."yeh, well that happens".  Told me he could do nothing for me.  I'm thinking I told him something about a boar hog, uselessness and mammary glands.... something to that effect.  Anyway I broke bad with the Direct Link and have been very satisfied.  I DO NOTICED RECOMMEND THE HAYES PRODUCT.

Ben...'Chief916'

NOT...not.... NOTICED.  I hate auto correct!

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25 minutes ago, trimster said:

Bit of a good twist in this whole Hayes controller thing. I emailed Hayes, explaining what's going on. I didn't sugar coat my dismay that their unit would work fine for the previous owner and weeks for me, then fail. I also indicated that there's more than just a few who have experienced failures...often consecutive. Here's their response:

"Good morning Robert,

Thank you for contacting us and making us aware of the issue you have experienced. We appreciate your being candid about not being the original owner of the controller. If you provide the address we will overnight you a new controller for your installation and evaluation. We will include a pre-paid return label for you to send the controller in question back. After our technical team evaluates the unit we will get back with you on the results.

Regardless of the threads on RV forums, our intentions are to 100% support our products. We take pride in customer satisfaction. With that said, we are not perfect and we do have units that fail in the field periodically.

I look forward to receiving your reply so that we can move toward a solution to your problem.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you,  "

Yup, taking them up on their offer. I'll keep you'all posted.

Hello Robert,

Right now, it sounds like Hayes willing to help out. Product support is a big thing for me. Wish you the best on the repairs. 

Al

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O.   M.   G. !!!?\!! ?!

I jist realized I own brake controllers from both Hayes and Tuson Brake aka DirecLink and have had great service from both. 

I think my Hayes was $190. 

If it up and quits I might just order another one and crack a cold beer change it. 

After all I have a 'nuff truck without much "power" but with 'nuff brakes (aka "breaks") on my axles ( aka "axels")  to not crash and burn... so the world should not end. 

I have had a brake control failure show itself on a long old Californy downgrade with my corner at the bottom back in the won ton towing a big fiver days.  The old won ton breaks got a little warm but we kept it off the runaway lane. 

 

 

 

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This past July we descended I-70 on the Colorado front range.... ran 8th gear all the way down at 55 with the Jake on... there were more than several pick-ups pulling both 5th wheels and bumpers pulls that were smelling like hot semi-metallic brake pads that passed us in a hurry.... Nice to have enuf truck...

 

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