go to store and forgot mask

[bigjim]

4 hours ago, GlennWest said:

Most welders refuse to wear safety glasses

For the ones that do are they worn with the Hood?  In your case are yours perscription?

[2gypsies]

1 hour ago, Big Rick said:

CDC has now said that COVID only deaths are less than 6%:

NOPE.  This is the real story:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/30/politics/twitter-coronavirus-deaths-false-claim-qanon-trump/index.html

[Nwcid]

53 minutes ago, bigjim said:

Have you read all the information in the links you provided or heard him explain it.  I assume so and I wonder if your understanding of it can be stated simply.

I will say on the first link using myself as an example.  I have a heart issue that is not my fault. It was discovered in 1996 and I could live 20 more years.  If I get Covid and am not able to survive it due to a weakend heart, what did I die of. Covid or heart failure or both as co-factor?

 

Please let Ncwid answer first folks.

I am not sure what you are asking.  The links I provided are videos with a transcript of the video.  I watched both of what I linked.  I have also watched his material for many years, and use some of it for teaching. 

If you are referring to the explaining the 6% simply, yes I can.  Both answers are right, depend on what outcome you want to argue.  

If you are referring to explaining getting the vaccine or not then he is also using a risk vs benefit or a deliberate risk process to make a choice. 

In your example, that is the problem is making sure all are being reported appropriately.  So if someone died from a traumatic cause, say in a car accident, but were COVID positive what should be listed as the cause of death.  

All across social media I see people arguing opposite points while using the exact same "data" as their point. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Nwcid

[GlennWest]

30 minutes ago, bigjim said:

For the ones that do are they worn with the Hood?  In your case are yours perscription?

under the hood they drop under chin. Oh yes, I'm 64. Perscription

[DanZemke]

1 hour ago, sandsys said:

Now that I understand more about where Glenn is coming from, I support his position.

Linda,

I'm a very rational guy.  Many think I'm too rational.  In my experience, most "discussions" on this forum tend to be about facts or opinions that usually coalesce into a consensus.  But I don't follow the more socially oriented topics like Class of 20XX.

You're post gave me the greatest emotional thrill, I've ever experienced on this forum.

Thank you!

p.s.  Here's my futile attempt of  a hug.

[Barbaraok]

5 hours ago, Randyretired said:

As long as we are not willing to look outside the box your response will leave these people out.  One of the ways that I have talked about before is the use of N95 masks where he could work without so much risk.  For some reason construction is and was essential.  We have a building project going on and I have found most contractors are very busy.  Most booked out several weeks or more.  I guess construction workers are immune?  The restrictions need to be looked at to find a way to help where possible.  NOT necessarily removed completely.  A few changes, with a little thought could be heaven sent to some.  In care centers where many or often most are on Medicaid how about a glass divided room for visitors.  Our government has spent trillions for some things but they have left to many out.  This isn't something most on this forum will personally encounter in fact for most us it is inconvenient but not life threatening.   For some they may never recover.  As long as you and others see the current restrictions as the only way then...

No where did Glenn mention the problem was not being able to get/use  N95 masks.   
take a look at the news about Virginia Mason hospital in Seattle that started letting visitors in.  They now have staff & patients who were infected by a visitor who was asymptotic and brought the virus into the hospital.  Also a hospital in Bremerton, WA that started to allow visitors and now has cases appearing and they had to stop allowing even family members in.   I agree that bring a loved one home, if at all possible, is the way to go.  

[bigjim]

1 hour ago, Nwcid said:

am not sure what you are asking

I meant to say I only wanted to focus on the first one. Sometimes I understand things better in small bits. I did not want anyone else to maybe cloud what you had to say or the way I might interpet it.. I gave the example to help me understand kind of like someone teaching using parables.   I may or may not get it better but I am open to consider other views. I know a lot of these folk so I have more understanding of  what they say and mean but I don't know you yet so I thought I might be able to better understand quicker.  I admit that I think I understand what the Dr. is saying but I am not sure at this point.  Kind of a long winded explanation but I do the best I can. And to be clear this is not some sort of a trap. BTW a couple of things I say is, "Clearer is better"  and "too much information is better than not enough."

On the gist of the second one it looks like to me that the decision to get the "shot"  should depend on how well it is tested. (see I can be succinct on occaision)

[Barbaraok]

BigJim, 

if you are infected with COVID, most likely it will accelerate your heart problems.  And yes, you would be a COVID death because it will be responsible for the deterioration of your cardiovascular system.  Chances are that your kidneys will shut down as they rely on good heart pumping, then other organs will follow.   
 

As to a vaccine, when I see both Dr Fauci and Dr Hotez (Baylor College of Medicine)  agree this is the vaccine to take, I’ll line up!

 

[Nwcid]

15 minutes ago, bigjim said:

I meant to say I only wanted to focus on the first one. Sometimes I understand things better in small bits. I did not want anyone else to maybe cloud what you had to say or the way I might interpet it.. I gave the example to help me understand kind of like someone teaching using parables.   I may or may not get it better but I am open to consider other views. I know a lot of these folk so I have more understanding of  what they say and mean but I don't know you yet so I thought I might be able to better understand quicker.  I admit that I think I understand what the Dr. is saying but I am not sure at this point.  Kind of a long winded explanation but I do the best I can. And to be clear this is not some sort of a trap. BTW a couple of things I say is, "Clearer is better"  and "too much information is better than not enough."

On the gist of the second one it looks like to me that the decision to get the "shot"  should depend on how well it is tested. (see I can be succinct on occaision)

That makes sense.  

 

Ultimately he was just explaining how data is collected and how it can be interpreted.  I think one of his best qualities is that he explains says what he thinks and why on a matter but does not insist that others do/think the same. 

 

On the second video, again he talks about processes, how it work, what he thinks and why allowing the viewer to make their own informed choice. 

[bigjim]

21 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

BigJim, 

if you are infected with COVID, most likely it will accelerate your heart problems.  And yes, you would be a COVID death because it will be responsible for the deterioration of your cardiovascular system.  Chances are that your kidneys will shut down as they rely on good heart pumping, then other organs will follow.   
 

As to a vaccine, when I see both Dr Fauci and Dr Hotez (Baylor College of Medicine)  agree this is the vaccine to take, I’ll line up!

 

😀i had a good idea about your thoughts and they dovetail with mine. I was basically trying to understand Ncwid a little

quicker since we have been around a lot longer.

[bigjim]

Nwcid,  I confess I am more interested in the conclusions at this point than the process although the process is interesting.

[Nwcid]

1 minute ago, bigjim said:

Nwcid,  I confess I am more interested in the conclusions at this point than the process although the process is interesting.

With the stuff I posted there is no "conclusion".  There is information presented in a way for you to make informed choices.  The "conclusion" is whatever you choose to do based on that information.  If you only listen to conclusions, then you have to decide who you want to "believe" about whatever the subject is. 

If you understand the process, or at least the general concept of a process then you will be able to come to your own conclusion or at least follow those that use the same methodology as you. 

Without this all a person does is end up arguing about who's opinion is "right",

[Dutch_12078]

4 hours ago, Big Rick said:

CDC has now said that COVID only deaths are less than 6%:

Which is a relatively meaningless number since those that died from COVID-19 that also had other conditions would likely have lived significantly longer except for the COVID-19 infection. The underlying health condition may have weakened their system making it easier for the virus to kill them, but it was still the virus that killed them now, rather than the underlying condition that may have killed them years later.

[Barbaraok]

3 minutes ago, Dutch_12078 said:

Which is a relatively meaningless number since those that died from COVID-19 that also had other conditions would likely have lived significantly longer except for the COVID-19 infection. The underlying health condition may have weakened their system making it easier for the virus to kill them, but it was still the virus that killed them now, rather than the underlying condition that may have killed them years later.

Or COVID did enough damage to systems that were already subpar so that those systems failed.   For example, a lot of hospitals didn’t have enough dialysis machines to handle the kidney failures but had enough ventilators.   

[hemsteadc]

14 hours ago, Big Rick said:

The made up facts of man made global warming is a complete hoax

Whew. .. that's a relief.  Thanks.

[Jaxon]

15 hours ago, DanZemke said:

Try searching this, or a variation of your choice: "CDC Covid deaths 6%"

Good point and this came up:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-mortality-statistics/

.

[Mr. Camper]

18 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Or COVID did enough damage to systems that were already subpar so that those systems failed.   For example, a lot of hospitals didn’t have enough dialysis machines to handle the kidney failures but had enough ventilators.   

What is important to know here and something that most folks don't know is that approximately 37,000,000 Americans are walking around with CKD (Chronic Kidney Disease) and don't know it.  The two leading causes of CKD are diabetes and high blood pressure.  However, doctors don't tell their patients about this condition and unless you, the patient know how to look and read your blood labs you won't know about it until the very late stages (usually Stages 4 or 5).  The earlier you find out about this the better your chances of slowing the progression of CKD.  When something like COVID hits a patient it exacerbates their underlying health issues.  The hospitals can usually handle it when someone goes into ESRD (End-Stage Renal Disease) without any prior knowledge or warning and they can surgically place an emergency catheter in the chest to begin dialysis.  With so many folks being unaware of having CKD the hospitals became overwhelmed with patients needing emergency dialysis when those patients went from any of the first four stages into Stage 5, which is ESRD.  The same goes for those who suffer from hypertension and whether or not it was being held in control by medications, the heart was overtaxed and that causes the other body organs to suffer, ie: the kidneys, lungs, liver, and gallbladder.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Mr. Camper

[rls7201]

Rode my Segway  1 1/2 miles to the hardware store. Walked halfway to the door, smacked forehead and returned home for a mask. There are now masks in the storage bag. DUH!

Richard

[Barbaraok]

I now have masks for several season, currently working on Thanksgiving and Christmas.  I make them for my daughter, who is a teacher, and others at her school and keep a few for myself.   Since my daughter has to wear one every day I've been making several so she has a variety and only has to wash once a week.  So have a bunch in the car now to grab.   

[Kirk W]

10 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

I now have masks for several season, currently working on Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Masks are becoming the new fashion statement! Pam has made quite a few also, but ours are just very neutral colors. Same for pretty much all of hers but she has changed her mask designs and construction since more plans have become available on the internet. We also keep them available in the car and several other handy locations. I am starting to make it a habit to put one into my pocket anytime that I leave the house. 

[docj]

My wife is now on her third "generation" of mask design. She now includes HEPA filters, adjustable ear elastics and shaped nose pieces.  Because she has a sewing machine with embroidery capability, she has now started embroidering designs and even company logos on them.

[Barbaraok]

16 minutes ago, docj said:

My wife is now on her third "generation" of mask design. She now includes HEPA filters, adjustable ear elastics and shaped nose pieces.  Because she has a sewing machine with embroidery capability, she has now started embroidering designs and even company logos on them.

How neat.   My machine is pretty basic straight stitch and zig-zag.  

[DanZemke]

I get normal language like HEPA filters, adjustable ear elastics and shaped nose pieces.  But what's with this arcane technical jargon like embroidery, straight stitch and zig-zag?  😉

Edited September 8, 2020 by DanZemke
clarity

[Barbaraok]

Embroidery, something young ladies (until the '70s) did to fill their HOPE CHESTS with pillow cases, kitchen towels, aprons, etc., along with flatware, glasses, dishes, blankets.   Never got mine into a chest, just boxed up when I got married and moved into our first apartment. 

[sandsys]

15 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

Embroidery, something young ladies (until the '70s) did to fill their HOPE CHESTS with pillow cases, kitchen towels, aprons, etc., along with flatware, glasses, dishes, blankets.   Never got mine into a chest, just boxed up when I got married and moved into our first apartment. 

I was remembering that just recently as I started doing Swedish weaving on kitchen towels again as something to do with my hands and mind during this stay-at-home time. My regular sewing skills don't even extend to mask making.

Linda