go to store and forgot mask

[richfaa]

Anyone notice that Glenn is no longer responding....

[GlennWest]

I have wheels. I am willing to go anywhere. But there is no one hiring but rag tag companies that don't pay squat.What most don't understand, I can go to Indeed.com. They are a job listing. They show some welding jobs, I call them, they say maybe next month. That is everyone's answer. They hoping the resistrictions lifted. The refineries will not issue badges. No badge no work. But I may have a job in a few more weeks. A very promising new construction job is in the works. I can likely get on it. But even that will have liminted employes due to the restrictions.

[rpsinc]

As a contractor installing equipment in warehouses, I have to weld on every job.  Some locations require masks and dont wear them, some locations will not let you in UNLESS you wear a mask and everything in between.  

What I know is that I wont weld without my hood, gloves, welding shirt, work boots, long pants and safety glasses.  That has become the norm because we see that the results of NOT FOLLOWING this behavior is detrimental to MY WELL BEING.  I am in the higher risk group by virtue of my age(over 60), but I still work where I can(not all places are available so my business is down +40%).  So one more piece of PPE is not a know out factor for me in this time.  I am grateful that I have some work and that I can live with my sales of this much.  Not every one is like me.  Unemployment insurance is not available to self-employed people(of which I am one) and so the basis for my being grateful.  I am nervous about getting sick, from covid or something else, but this is the life that exists at this time and I can only do the best that I can with the information and knowledge that is available to ME.

I make my choices for MY circumstances.  I am sorry you are not working, Glenn, and I hope that changes soon.  I only wish I could help you further, but I dont have that option.  Try to be strong, take care of your wife, we are all pretty resilient and should come out of this but for the 183K+ people that succombed to this, I feel sad and remorseful for them and their families.  Considering that alternative, I will try to focus on being grateful and wear my PPE.  Dont like it but...wear it.

[DanZemke]

24 minutes ago, richfaa said:

Anyone notice that Glenn is no longer responding....

No, and your intended point was?

[Kirk W]

Unfortunately, science today is not an exact thing that can be proven to have one and only 1 answer. If all scientific decisions were required to be unanimous, we would never have eliminated the threat of polio, or gone into space, or much of anything. There have always been those who doubt the directions that medicine is going but when there is a threat on the scale of COVID19, something has to be done and it takes time before we actually know what the result of actions will be and more importantly, which actions actually helped. As we look at the various places in the world where covid was raging, the most effective and immediate way to slow things was to close everything and require everyone to stay home. But in this day when we don't make our own food or clothing, that is only a short term solution. 

If we look at Dallas Co., TX, which I know best because it is where I have been through all of this, the hospitals were rapidly filling up with covid patients and many of them died, especially those with advanced age or health problems. The shut-down worked but our economy was collapsing too so they began to open things up once more. That seemed to be working and things were looking better businesses were slowly being opened back up, with only a few restrictions. Then came Memorial Day weekend when there were large crowds and many gatherings with few wearing masks or keeping a social distance. The result was a rapidly increasing number of daily positive covid tests going from around 400 per day to 800, then to 1000, and then by July 1 were were seeing 1000 to 1200 positive tests per day, with hospitals dangerously filled with covid patients to where only emergency patients were being accepted in any Dallas area hospital and most days brought around 50 more deaths. At that point the authorities mandated the wearing of masks inside of any open business, limited the numbers of customers allowed into any business, and other actions to require the 6' social distancing. 

Now we are in early September and most businesses are once more open, but to limited numbers of patients and masks are required inside of businesses except to eat, drink, or for medical purposes. The mask mandate is being enforced by the code enforcement people as much as possible and a major effort has been made to educate the public. The result is that we now see about 200 positive covid tests per day, the number of covid patients in our hospitals is now at about 40% as high as it was, most medical procedures are again being taken care of, and business activity is increasing, but with masks and social distancing. Those who refuse to wear a mask are not looked upon by most in much the same manner that would be if they were to smoke in those same places. The fact is that the wearing of masks by the vast majority of people in Dallas Co. has brought about major improvement in the outlook here. 

It is true that opinions on what works and what doesn't is not universally agreed upon, but in this area the mandates of masks and distancing have made life far better and the majority will support that. 

[bigjim]

1 hour ago, rpsinc said:

What I know is that I wont weld without my hood, gloves, welding shirt, work boots, long pants and safety glasses.

I like the way you explained this actually in your entire post.  I wish I could have done as well.

[Barbaraok]

12 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

, but in this area the mandates of masks and distancing have made life far better and the majority will support that. 

And that’s true all over the country where these relatively simple things are in place by most of the population.

[GlennWest]

3 minutes ago, bigjim said:

I like the way you explained this actually in your entire post.  I wish I could have done as well.

Most welders refuse to wear safety glasses. I don't have a choice. Can't focus without mine

[Randyretired]

1 hour ago, Barbaraok said:

Randy,

If the only person that would be affected was the gentleman who would get the virus, then so be it. BUT he could be an asymptomatic spreader that would infect people who walked into his business, infect his aging parents, his kids who would go to school and infect their teachers and other students, and on and on and on.  Just look at the spread since Sturgis - and that's just the ones they are tracing.    Last week ASU has 200 students that tested positive (after returning that week), yesterday the number if over 900!  How many janitors and faculty will take the disease home to their families and further the spread?      I do feel for those caught in the lockdowns.  My husband was in the ICU after open heart surgery in March when they locked everything down.  For over a week I had to make do with once a day FaceTime visit.   Yes, I know that it was just only a week or so, but it was very hard on him, especially those days when he was in and out of consciousness.  And I was making decisions over the phone.   Same thing happened when his pacemaker was implanted in June.  I dropped him off at 6 am the day of surgery, luckily it was only overnight that he had to stay, so could talk to him after the procedure, and picked him up at noon time the next day.     But it was necessary to help make sure hospital staff weren't exposed to the disease.  

This is hard on everyone.  My aunt, who is 96 yrs old, is figuratively a prisoner in her home.  My cousin's husband, who was hospitalized at 70 with the disease but has recovered, does all the shopping for both his family including her.   My two cousins go see her once a week, wearing masks when they see her, and both of them are essentially self-isolating at home.   So we call her and chat once in a while.   

Were restrictions that great necessary.   I believe so because we just didn't realize how easily the transmission could be and the role of asymptomatic spreaders.  Now we are in a position to make adjustments, more people are willing to do the simple things like wearing a mask, using physical distancing, etc., to help reduce the infection rate as we all wait for vaccines and better treatments.

 

As long as we are not willing to look outside the box your response will leave these people out.  One of the ways that I have talked about before is the use of N95 masks where he could work without so much risk.  For some reason construction is and was essential.  We have a building project going on and I have found most contractors are very busy.  Most booked out several weeks or more.  I guess construction workers are immune?  The restrictions need to be looked at to find a way to help where possible.  NOT necessarily removed completely.  A few changes, with a little thought could be heaven sent to some.  In care centers where many or often most are on Medicaid how about a glass divided room for visitors.  Our government has spent trillions for some things but they have left to many out.  This isn't something most on this forum will personally encounter in fact for most us it is inconvenient but not life threatening.   For some they may never recover.  As long as you and others see the current restrictions as the only way then...

[Kirk W]

2 minutes ago, Randyretired said:

As long as you and others see the current restrictions as the only way then...

In this entire thread, I have not seen one statement that this is the only way. But it is the way that is working at this time and until there is a better way, most of us will support it. It is sad that it has had the economic impact that it has, but that is still better than doing nothing until our medical system collapses under the burdens that were coming before the move to masks and social distancing. In time there will be new and better answers, we hope. Until then it is the best that we have. We do need to find ways to help those who are harmed as a result of the mandates.

There will always be those who object to any new health action. There are those who refuse vaccinations, others who object to blood transfusions, and probably any medical procedure that we could name. 

[noteven]

......

Edited September 4, 2020 by noteven

[Randyretired]

31 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

In this entire thread, I have not seen one statement that this is the only way. But it is the way that is working at this time and until there is a better way, most of us will support it. It is sad that it has had the economic impact that it has, but that is still better than doing nothing until our medical system collapses under the burdens that were coming before the move to masks and social distancing. In time there will be new and better answers, we hope. Until then it is the best that we have. We do need to find ways to help those who are harmed as a result of the mandates.

There will always be those who object to any new health action. There are those who refuse vaccinations, others who object to blood transfusions, and probably any medical procedure that we could name. 

Barbaraok spent the entire first paragraph of their post defending current restrictions as if that is the only way.  My point is we need to look beyond the current way which is at best unfair to many.  As I said construction continues on nearly uninterrupted but others face a demise that could be worse than the disease.  

[2gypsies]

3 hours ago, Randyretired said:

 Another case is a cousin of mine who had a stroke and brain bleed.  He was around 50.  He is now in a care home but it feels like prison to him.  Under Colorado restrictions he has not been allowed a visitor since March and often locked in his room.  He was a respected and successful attorney and still has much of his brain functions.  He has said he would rather take the chance of covid than live like this but he might get to see his wife for the first time in months this week.  

It's so sad to hear the stories of people that really need people around them, not being able to do so.

Has his wife ever looked into bringing him home and getting home help?  If he's 50 he may have some years left even with a stroke.  Being in a care home will shorten his life.

Sorry for getting off-track.

[2gypsies]

2 hours ago, richfaa said:

Anyone notice that Glenn is no longer responding....

Only an hour had passed since you noticed!  

[DanZemke]

Misunderstood 2Gypies post.  Apologize.

Edited September 4, 2020 by DanZemke
Misunderstanding by me

[2gypsies]

5 minutes ago, DanZemke said:

It's unclear to me why that is relevant.   Please explain.

.... meaning Rich seemed concerned that Randy isn't answering fast enough after only a hour.

[Big Rick]

8 hours ago, hemsteadc said:

I used to hear this 'unproven' argument from a global warming denier.  I think he called it 'unsettled.' He didn't understand science either. 

Science evolves, it changes with changing circumstances.  People used to think the earth was the center of the solar system.  That it was flat.  And with religion getting in the way and actually executing people for belief in science, it's a wonder we know anything. 

Think of it like a criminal trial.  We don't KNOW the defendant committed a crime because nobody was there to see it, but we rely on the preponderance of EVIDENCE to reach a reasonable conclusion.  That's science. Is it ever wrong? Yes, but we have a much better chance of being right with this method than any other.  

When I hear our beloved president et al badmouthing medicine for first not requiring masks, and then changing their minds, I just cringe.  They don't understand how this works.

Preponderance of evidence is one thing, but making up “science out of whole cloth” and calling it fact is another. Global climate change is part of nature. The made up facts of man made global warming is a complete hoax

[Big Rick]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

In this entire thread, I have not seen one statement that this is the only way. But it is the way that is working at this time and until there is a better way, most of us will support it. It is sad that it has had the economic impact that it has, but that is still better than doing nothing until our medical system collapses under the burdens that were coming before the move to masks and social distancing. In time there will be new and better answers, we hope. Until then it is the best that we have. We do need to find ways to help those who are harmed as a result of the mandates.

There will always be those who object to any new health action. There are those who refuse vaccinations, others who object to blood transfusions, and probably any medical procedure that we could name. 

CDC has now said that COVID only deaths are less than 6%:

[GlennWest]

I also hear that anyone dying of any flu systems is labled as COVID. So actual is likely less

Edited September 4, 2020 by GlennWest

[sandsys]

5 hours ago, DanZemke said:

To be clear, I'm not advocating for charity for Glenn, I'm advocating for community decency.  He appears to be in trouble, and IMO, deserves our support.

Now that I understand more about where Glenn is coming from, I support his position. I worry about all those who are not being allowed to work. When we were young, we would have been in BIG trouble if that had happened to us. Those of us who are baby boomers, I think, had the very best world as were were growing up and raising families. I'm sorry that following generations are not getting that. That's why I think those of us who are now "haves" need to better support those who are less lucky than we were.

Linda

[Kirk W]

21 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

CDC has now said that COVID only deaths are less than 6%:

You need to read all of that report and not just pick the part that suits your purpose. Since most of those who covid killed were already diagnosed with thing like diabetes, sickle cell anemia, deteriorating heart conditions, COPD, or any of a host of other miladies, then you believe that we should let covid run rampant since those people do not count? 

Quote

 SARS-CoV-2 attacks lung cells, and that assault on a person’s respiratory system can greatly exacerbate other preexisting conditions. That means COVID-19 patients run the risk of previously manageable health problems turning fatal — including cardiac arrest, liver failure, or lung scarring — after they’re infected with SARS-CoV-2.

If you really want to know what happens, check this out.

FACT CHECK

Fact check: Is US coronavirus death toll inflated? Experts agree it's likely the opposite

[Nwcid]

There is no easy answer to this problem and like anything else numbers can be made to say what they want.  

I am not pro-mask or anti-mask.  I am, make an informed decision mask.  This is no different than any other part of my life.  If I was to engage in an activity that has a high risk for catching COVID I wear a mask (N95 if high risk), if not, I do not.  More offend than not, I am not doing high risk things.  

Do you wear a seat belt?  Every time you drive a vehicle?  Even backing in the parking lot to hook your trailer? Do you have 5 point harnesses installed in every vehicle?  They are safer than regular seatbelts?  If you don't then you have made a risk assessment.  Do you have helmets? Neck braces? Fire retardant clothing? Race car drivers do because it offers more protection.  

I have never worn a helmet on my utility ATV, but even in states where legal, you would never catch me on a street bike, or a sport atv/motorcycle without a helmet, and likely other protective clothing. 

Here is a Dr that I follow who I believes does a good job discussing all sides of an issue to make you as informed as possible.  

This one talks about the 6%, https://zdoggmd.com/covid-death-stats/

This one talks about if he would take a vaccine, https://zdoggmd.com/covidvax/

[bigjim]

50 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

The made up facts of man made global warming is a complete hoax

Not going beyond this on the subject as we are discussing something else. This is your opinion and you are entitled to believe it.   I don't.

[DanZemke]

59 minutes ago, Big Rick said:

CDC has now said that COVID only deaths are less than 6%:

I will not impose on you to provide links to other opinions.  But you can do you own research and find that MANY disagree with your assertion.

Try searching this, or a variation of your choice: "CDC Covid deaths 6%"

 

[bigjim]

22 minutes ago, Nwcid said:

Here is a Dr that I follow who I believes does a good job discussing all sides of an issue to make you as informed as possible.

Have you read all the information in the links you provided or heard him explain it.  I assume so and I wonder if your understanding of it can be stated simply.

I will say on the first link using myself as an example.  I have a heart issue that is not my fault. It was discovered in 1996 and I could live 20 more years.  If I get Covid and am not able to survive it due to a weakend heart, what did I die of. Covid or heart failure or both as co-factor?

 

Please let Ncwid answer first folks.

Edited September 4, 2020 by bigjim