How long will this go on?

[harrysteven]

On 6/27/2020 at 6:48 PM, Kirk W said:

Part of the problem is our rebellious & independent nature as Americans. The value that we put on our individual rights is what makes us unique in the world, but it also makes it more difficult to contain something like this because we don't easily accept new rules and conform to them, even when it may be in our best interest. Add to that the lack of a uniform set of requirements, even withing a relatively small geographic area and the fractured leadership that can't agree on how serious it is, and you get the mess that we have today. Those who doubt the measures are effective should take a look at NY and NJ where it was by far the worst and is now safely under control, even though it is not over. Here in Texas, along with about 20 other states the community was gaining control of things and it was beginning to improve, until they opened things back up too rapidly and with no real teeth in the restrictions that were set up. As a result, the Dallas/Ft, Worth is seeing the worst problems yet with a danger of overwhelming the hospitals, while Houston's hospitals are in serious trouble. 

The fact is that the problem is not under control in most of the western states and things are probably as dangerous as they have ever been in most areas. Until people accept some responsibility and begin to wear a mask to protect others around them it will probably not get much better. I am amazed by the number of people in our group who are mostly over the age of 65 and thus in a high risk group, who still show reluctance to become part of the solution for the dangers. At this point, we have canceled our plans through July and have all of our future plans on hold until we see some sort of improvement. 

Very well put, Kirk. You hit the nail right on the head. Thanks!

[hemsteadc]

On 7/22/2020 at 8:57 AM, Blues said:

You'd hope so, but then all along we've had a not insignificant number of people who have said they're not wearing masks because they're not scared of no virus.

 

Probably in those exact words.

[docj]

2 minutes ago, hemsteadc said:

Probably in those exact words.

More likely:  I ain't scared of no virus! 😁

[hemsteadc]

14 hours ago, docj said:

More likely:  I ain't scared of no virus! 😁

That would be it.  Perhaps they aren't, I mean ain't, scared 'o nothin' they cain't see.

Edited July 24, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Kirk W]

49 minutes ago, docj said:

More likely:  I ain't scared of no virus! 😁

[RV_]

Agree. For those brave folks I will say this:

Edited July 24, 2020 by RV_

[RV_]

[Jim & Alice]

Great set of comments. 10x.

Wish we had up/down votes on issues... 

[DanZemke]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

Kirk, I literally did laugh out loud at this one. Thx

[Blues]

5 hours ago, docj said:

More likely:  I ain't scared of no virus! 😁

Heh.  I actually considered it, but didn't want to gild the lily. 

I don't want to go too far afield, but how about if we have an exemption from masks for people who have a tattoo that brands them as a mask objector.  Very very strict enforcement for everyone else, with no exceptions.  If you can't wear a mask for a health reason, you can't go out.  Sorry, but that's your sacrifice.  Just like elderly at-risk people can't go out, either.  It sucks, but it's necessary.

Then continue as we are, with no mask battles because those without masks will be tattooed, indicating their exemption.  The rest of us just stay as far away from them as possible; no confrontations allowed.  Oh, and ambulance and hospital workers will be prohibited from treating anyone with the tattoo.  Certainly not for COVID, and really, not for anything else since their not wearing a mask compromises the availability of healthcare services for non-COVID patients, too.

I suspect that a lot of these brave mask-shunners will turn out to be cowards when push comes to shove, and be unwilling to literally put their life on the line, in a way that's not that different from the way they're already putting everybody else's life on the line, especially healthcare workers.

Even mask mandates aren't solving the problem, so maybe just accept that there will be a certain number of people who won't wear them, and figure out what to do about that.  Having customers or kids working the register at CVS confront them is not an acceptable solution. 

 

[docj]

9 hours ago, Blues said:

I don't want to go too far afield, but how about if we have an exemption from masks for people who have a tattoo that brands them as a mask objector. 

My wife is an RN.  She agrees with your tattoo approach, but she thinks that "no-makers" should also have DNR (Do Not Resuscitate)  tattooed on their chests so that medical personnel don't waste their time with them! ☹️ (Those with legitimate medical reasons for not wearing a mask don't have to have the DNR tattoo.)

[Dutch_12078]

8 minutes ago, docj said:

My wife is an RN.  She agrees with your tattoo approach, but she thinks that "no-makers" should also have DNR (Do Not Resuscitate)  tattooed on their chests so that medical personnel don't waste their time with them! ☹️ (Those with legitimate medical reasons for not wearing a mask don't have to have the DNR tattoo.)

I have found very few valid medical reasons for not wearing a mask so far. Most of the claims I've seen are bogus. And "discomfort" is not a valid reason...

[Barbaraok]

If one has a valid medical reason for not wearing a mask, they should not be going out and shopping, going to bars, etc.  These are the very people who need to be extra careful about not catching the virus.   

[sandsys]

6 hours ago, docj said:

My wife is an RN.  She agrees with your tattoo approach, but she thinks that "no-makers" should also have DNR (Do Not Resuscitate)  tattooed on their chests so that medical personnel don't waste their time with them! ☹️ (Those with legitimate medical reasons for not wearing a mask don't have to have the DNR tattoo.)

I have a friend with a DNR tattoo but he does wear a mask to protect others.

Linda

[richfaa]

I have no control over how long this will last so we will just deal with it as best we can. The virus is real and thus far there is no historical documentation on what medication works and there is no vaccine...yet. We wear a mask and gloves when required  and they are being required at more and more places.  

[Blues]

On 7/24/2020 at 7:58 AM, docj said:

My wife is an RN.  She agrees with your tattoo approach, but she thinks that "no-makers" should also have DNR (Do Not Resuscitate)  tattooed on their chests so that medical personnel don't waste their time with them! ☹️

Not necessary.  Medical personnel are prohibited from treating them, period. 

 

On 7/24/2020 at 8:50 AM, Barbaraok said:

If one has a valid medical reason for not wearing a mask, they should not be going out and shopping, going to bars, etc.  These are the very people who need to be extra careful about not catching the virus.   

It might not be about catching the virus, but a mental disorder like claustrophobia.  But they would fall under the category of "Sorry, but this is the sacrifice you have to make."  The sooner this is over with, the sooner you can go out again.  So encourage your friends.

 

46 minutes ago, richfaa said:

We wear a mask and gloves when required  and they are being required at more and more places.  

Gloves aren't necessary, and may actually be counterproductive by giving the impression that they're helping when they're not. 

[Dutch_12078]

42 minutes ago, Blues said:

Not necessary.  Medical personnel are prohibited from treating them, period. 

That's not correct. A "DNR" only applies to resuscitation efforts if medically indicated treatments fail. From the US National Library of Medicine's Medline Plus:

"What is a DNR?"

"Ideally, a DNR order is created, or set up, before an emergency occurs. A DNR order allows you to choose whether or not you want CPR in an emergency. It is specific about CPR. It does not have instructions for other treatments, such as pain medicine, other medicines, or nutrition."

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000473.htm

 

[bobsallyh]

Well corporate America put on a good PR deal for last Monday, when several banded together with "you can't come in with no mask". Didn't take long for at least one of them to break ranks and become spineless, not suprising.

[hemsteadc]

From the news I see this has pretty much boiled down to Republicans against Democrats.  I don't understand that.  Viruses don't know the difference.

[Dutch_12078]

It occurs to me in reference to "no-maskers" not being treated, will the mask question be a standard part of the intake history now? I absolutely believe the masking and distancing protocols are effective, but I'm curious how medical personnel would know who not to treat...

[richfaa]

2 hours ago, Blues said:

Not necessary.  Medical personnel are prohibited from treating them, period. 

 

It might not be about catching the virus, but a mental disorder like claustrophobia.  But they would fall under the category of "Sorry, but this is the sacrifice you have to make."  The sooner this is over with, the sooner you can go out again.  So encourage your friends.

 

Gloves aren't necessary, and may actually be counterproductive by giving the impression that they're helping when they're not. 

The virus was identified as a Contact virus thus the mask to prevent  contact from sneezing, etc. We contact everything with our hands therefore the gloves. We will  stay with what we do you may chose differently.

[Barbaraok]

52 minutes ago, hemsteadc said:

From the news I see this has pretty much boiled down to Republicans against Democrats.  I don't understand that.  Viruses don't know the difference.

We are about to split into two countries and replay the Civil War.  All over our original sin of slavery

[hemsteadc]

59 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

We are about to split into two countries and replay the Civil War.  All over our original sin of slavery

It's getting to look that way.  I know that Republicans hate change, but I didn't know to what extent.

Now that we have this wonderful thing we call the internet, with the world's knowledge at our fingertips, what's it being used for?  Conspiracy theories (aka fake news) and vile hatred.

Edited July 25, 2020 by hemsteadc

[sandsys]

3 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

That's not correct. A "DNR" only applies to resuscitation efforts if medically indicated treatments fail. From the US National Library of Medicine's Medline Plus:

"What is a DNR?"

"Ideally, a DNR order is created, or set up, before an emergency occurs. A DNR order allows you to choose whether or not you want CPR in an emergency. It is specific about CPR. It does not have instructions for other treatments, such as pain medicine, other medicines, or nutrition."

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000473.htm

 

Instead have your doctor complete a POLST; this is a physician's order for life saving treatment. That lets you decide about things like feeding tubes and pain management as well as CPR. Mine hangs on our fridge so EMTs will see it if they come get me. There's also a copy in the office here so staff knows to have EMTs look for it if they don't already. And my doctor's name and phone number are listed under my emergency contacts on my phone that can be accessed without unlocking my phone so she can confirm my POLST if that should be needed because I was not home when my life threatening event happened.

Linda Sand

[Dutch_12078]

2 hours ago, sandsys said:

Instead have your doctor complete a POLST; this is a physician's order for life saving treatment. That lets you decide about things like feeding tubes and pain management as well as CPR. Mine hangs on our fridge so EMTs will see it if they come get me. There's also a copy in the office here so staff knows to have EMTs look for it if they don't already. And my doctor's name and phone number are listed under my emergency contacts on my phone that can be accessed without unlocking my phone so she can confirm my POLST if that should be needed because I was not home when my life threatening event happened.

Linda Sand

I agree, Linda, and the POLST is an entirely different instrument than a simple DNR that only covers CPR.

https://dailycaring.com/which-end-of-life-form-is-needed-polst-vs-dnr/