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Zulu

How long will this go on?

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Just found out a family member who had a gift shop in a tourist town closed the store because shoppers were ignoring the signs and not being nice when asked to mask up.  Since another family member has COPD, they decided the risks were too great and closed the store.  

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6 hours ago, LindaH said:

Yes, I know it's Costco's policy.  But I've heard lots of reports that, once inside, many people take their masks off.  That hasn't been our experience during senior hour -- we haven't seen anyone wandering around without a mask.

Me too.  Between the two of us, we're dealing with a very small sample size of observations, so it's just an indicator (from two highly reliable sources 🙂).  But I, and I suspect you, aren't expecting perfection.  Just better (safety).

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4 hours ago, docj said:

Maybe people would accept wearing masks more if they understood that the data is showing that masks appear to reduce the severity of the disease if you do catch it.  It's what the doctors call the "viral load".  Your body can fight off a small number of virus particles without you getting all that sick, but if you inhale lots of them they can overwhelm your defenses.  

Mask wearing can reduce severity of COVID-19 cases

Excellent link Joel. Although it has been decades since I worked in a hospital medical lab I have been aware of viral load possibly having an effect on the severity of the disease as well as transmissibility. The link below is more lay person's language than highly technical. 

Excerpt:

"Only seven per cent of coronavirus samples have a “high viral load” — meaning these people would, on average, transmit the infection to 6.25 other people.The vast majority (84%) have a low infectiousness, transmitting to only 0.8 persons on average. Nine per cent have a moderate viral load."

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/in-depth/covid-test-should-track-viral-load-too-says-new-icmr-study/ar-BB14WprR

The smallest viral loads account for the many folks with the disease but who are asymptomatic. However the same small viral load can still cause severe illness in those with the usual high risk conditions.

Joel, your link had several good videos but the one many will not linger long enough to see is the best demonstration of the mask's ability in decreasing severity. And that six feet may not help if there is any kind of breeze and you are downwind of the infected person. Microdroplets can hang in the air indoors for an hour or so. Outside travel on a light breeze with a small load.

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/health/2020/07/17/explainer-how-coronavirus-spreads-and-stays-air-hours/5458976002/

The bottom line is wear masks, and don't be around or tolerate folks who don't.

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Bill that's a shame, but smart. Be alive and healthy later to make money.

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We were just at Walmart in Kalispell, MT. They are using the main door for both entrance and exit. Going in right side door and exiting, the left side door. There were two employees at the "in" side, didn't see what they were doing but assuming that if not masked, they asked you to mask up. The Montana governor has made masking up mandatory. We were very pleasantly surprised by the numbers. It sure might have been 100% or if not darn near. Everybody I saw was good to go.

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   We were there this am just after they opened for old timers. They are good on mask and people are really good at the distance thing.

 

  Two weeks ago i noticed the upper shelves were not fully stocked as before. Not much in canned vegetables. This day the wife was along and she saw that they were not full either. Also controlling paper products again.

 

  Next time I will wave if I see you,   Vern

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You know Vern, a friend of ours from K-town was in yesterday. They also noted the empty shelves. We were surprised at the empty shelves too. They look a little worse for this time of the year which is surprising since our northern neighbors can't come across the border. They really hit that shopping area hard, what with Lowes, Home Depot, Costco, and Wally in the same area.

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37 minutes ago, bobsallyh said:

We were just at Walmart in Kalispell, MT. They are using the main door for both entrance and exit. Going in right side door and exiting, the left side door. There were two employees at the "in" side, didn't see what they were doing but assuming that if not masked, they asked you to mask up.

Here in TX we have observed two different Walmart stores and a Lowe's, yesterday & today. While we were not inside of the two Walmart stores, we order supplies online and were at the one to pick up our groceries and supplies yesterday and while there we drove past the front to observe. Then today we went to Lowe's for a couple of items and as we were returning we passed through the lot of a second Walmart just to see what they are doing. At all 3 stores we say pretty much the same as you saw in Kallispell. At the first Walmart we observed for a time while waiting for our order to come out and we did see one person sent away, probably for lack of a mask. In Lowe's we observed an employee who directed a customer to first pull his mask up over his nose before they would help him find what he needed. At the cashier station was a sign stating that masks are required. 

It could be partly due to the fact that Dallas County had a mask required order for all stores to be open. 

Edited by Kirk W

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3 hours ago, DanZemke said:

Here's some sage advice about personally trying to get individuals to wear a mask.  

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/mask-etiquette-coronavirus-covid19-fbi-hostage-15416464.php

If I said, "Excuse me. I have three medical conditions which makes it likely I will die if I catch this thing. I know you don't have any symptoms right now but just in case would you be willing to wear a mask while in my vicinity?"

If I then hand them a mask. what are they likely to do?

Linda

BTW, my three things are old age, high blood pressure, and diabetes.

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3 hours ago, sandsys said:

If I said, "Excuse me. I have three medical conditions which makes it likely I will die if I catch this thing. I know you don't have any symptoms right now but just in case would you be willing to wear a mask while in my vicinity?"

If I then hand them a mask. what are they likely to do?

Linda

BTW, my three things are old age, high blood pressure, and diabetes.

They may spit at you.  That seems to be the latest antic.   

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3 minutes ago, Barbaraok said:

They may spit at you.  That seems to be the latest antic.   

That would be grounds for an assault charge...

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4 hours ago, sandsys said:

I know you don't have any symptoms right now but just in case would you be willing to wear a mask while in my vicinity?"

It is my practice to just stay well away from people who do not wear a mask. Why get close enough to have a conversation? 

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3 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

It is my practice to just stay well away from people who do not wear a mask. Why get close enough to have a conversation? 

I wouldn't. I was just trying to figure out how that FBI agent's advice would work in this situation.

Linda

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Spit on me and he or she will have a problem. I don't take that WITHOUT COVID19 involved.

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23 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

Some do, and a lot are ask to get their masks back on, or are kicked out of the store and their membership terminated.  Companies  can have them removed and CHARGED  for trespassing if they won't comply.   Businesses have more power than they realize.

As I pointed out above, when the Colorado governor recently put in place the statewide mask "mandate," law enforcement in several counties immediately declared that they wouldn't answer calls to enforce it. 

I think Costco is at an advantage because they're a membership club, so they're not dealing with the "general public," and equally important, they came out early on this, so they're already entrenched in the mask-wearing requirement.  It was also at a time when conscientious objectors could display their patriotism by shopping somewhere else without their mask, and that's becoming a lot harder now.  Those people are unlikely to try to go back to Costco at this point.

 

On 7/21/2020 at 7:45 AM, docj said:

Maybe people would accept wearing masks more if they understood that the data is showing that masks appear to reduce the severity of the disease if you do catch it. 

You'd hope so, but then all along we've had a not insignificant number of people who have said they're not wearing masks because they're not scared of no virus.

I do think that couching it in terms of protecting others for so long was a mis-step.  If we had been properly prepared and there wasn't a shortage of masks, and if they'd known about unusual infectiousness of this particular virus, I'm sure they would have been telling everyone to wear a mask all the time to protect yourself and others.

But we weren't prepared, so masks needed to be reserved for healthcare workers (we saw what happened with toilet paper), and we were told don't wear them.  Then when it became known that the virus was a problem early in the infection, before people actually got sick, we were told to wear masks to protect others.  You'd think the argument "if not for yourself, do it for others" would be a slam dunk, but of course all it's done is reveal how much many of us are influenced by people who promote conspiracy theories and whatnot, and worse, how much many of us just don't care about other people.  Not a good combination.

As annoyed as I am about people who don't wear masks, I don't lay all of the blame at their feet.  They've been used by some with overt promoting of misinformation, and they're been disserved by others by dissemination of mixed messages.  No wonder they're confused, and what it's done is give people an opportunity to display their worst selves.

To me, even among all the uncertainty, it's always been just a matter of "you never know, so why not?"  But I'm getting the feeling that not everyone is like me.  😀

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1 hour ago, Blues said:

As annoyed as I am about people who don't wear masks, I don't lay all of the blame at their feet.  They've been used by some with overt promoting of misinformation, and they're been disserved by others by dissemination of mixed messages. 

No doubt about that. The constant disagreement among those in leadership positions has made it difficult to know who to trust and who to believe. It would appear that there is a growing consensus that masks are a necessary to gain control of the spread of this virus. I hope that will help to get the vast majority to start wearing them when in close proximity of others. There are also a few at the other extreme, like my neighbors who wear masks to sit out on their own patio with only their dogs for company. 

 

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Still seems to be some conflicting information about who should wear what masks. From an article by the Mayo Clinic

Quote

Some N95 masks, and even some cloth masks, have one-way valves that make them easier to breathe through. But because the valve releases unfiltered air when the wearer breathes out, this type of mask doesn't prevent the wearer from spreading the virus. For this reason, some places have banned them.

Quote

...N95 masks may be in short supply and should be reserved for health care providers...

This statement makes no sense to me seeming to imply that it is an acceptable risk that health care providers use a mask that doesn't prevent spread to patients or each other. I would think they would strongly recommend against using any mask with an exhaust valve.

Edited by trailertraveler

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2 hours ago, trailertraveler said:

Still seems to be some conflicting information about who should wear what masks. From an article by the Mayo Clinic

This statement makes no sense to me seeming to imply that it is an acceptable risk that health care providers use a mask that doesn't prevent spread to patients or each other. I would think they would strongly recommend against using any mask with an exhaust valve.

First, just because it’s called a “surgical mask” doesn’t necessarily mean it’s worn in surgery.

Second, “some” but not all N95 masks have valves, and the article clearly states that this type of mask should not be used in Covid environments.

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4 hours ago, Kirk W said:

No doubt about that. The constant disagreement among those in leadership positions has made it difficult to know who to trust and who to believe. It would appear that there is a growing consensus that masks are a necessary to gain control of the spread of this virus. I hope that will help to get the vast majority to start wearing them when in close proximity of others. There are also a few at the other extreme, like my neighbors who wear masks to sit out on their own patio with only their dogs for company. 

 

If you trust the experts in infectious diseases you can’t go wrong.  Never have understood people who ignore science.   Yes, your neighbors may be being over cautious but they don’t have to worry about where the masks are should someone walk towards them.   Plus, we now wear ours when going for walks in our sections of the park because monsoon are starting with dust storms that carry Valley Fever!

2 hours ago, trailertraveler said:

Still seems to be some conflicting information about who should wear what masks. From an article by the Mayo Clinic

This statement makes no sense to me seeming to imply that it is an acceptable risk that health care providers use a mask that doesn't prevent spread to patients or each other. I would think they would strongly recommend against using any mask with an exhaust valve.

There are N95 masks made for use to protect those in construction from dusts and fibers, that have the vents so the person working could exhale easily.    They are not meant for infection control.  Differ Applications require different PPE.   Same reason shop goggles in appropriate for chemistry lab.  

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46 minutes ago, Zulu said:

Second, “some” but not all N95 masks have valves, and the article clearly states that this type of mask should not be used in Covid environments.

You seem to have read more into the statement than I did:

Quote

 this type of mask doesn't prevent the wearer from spreading the virus. For this reason, some places have banned them.

To me this does not clearly recommend/state that they should not be used. I have seen people with masks with valves just about everywhere I have gone. So it seems the message that these masks are not appropriate has not gotten out.

Edited by trailertraveler

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There is finally some good news on covid-19 coming out of Dallas County, TX. After 18 consecutive days of 1000+ positive tests and a peak of several days that exceeded 1200, yesterday there were 734, and now today the report was 413. Hospitalized covid cases are still at record highs from the past weeks but we should see some decline soon with positive reports dropping. Sadly there was a record day for deaths, with 30 more losing their fight. 

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2 hours ago, trailertraveler said:

So it seems the message that these masks are not appropriate has not gotten out.

I've seen people with underwear on their heads, so . . .

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The "N95" is a government efficiency rating that means the mask blocks about 95 percent of particles that are 0.3 microns in size or larger. The rating does not indicate the suitability of the mask design for a particular purpose. As previously said and as the article states about masks with exhale valves, "... this type of mask doesn't prevent the wearer from spreading the virus."

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People will always argue that masks don't help, but here in Dallas, after 18 strait days of 1000+ positive tests per day we now have pretty much everyone wearing them out in public and Tuesday there were 734 followed by Wednesday's 412. We are keeping our fingers crossed!

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