How long will this go on?

[Randyretired]

5 hours ago, DanZemke said:

Here are links to two fairly recent BBC articles about Covid-19 that I found interesting:

Coronavirus: Encouraging results in vaccine trials

Coronavirus: Human trial of new vaccine begins in UK

1 Day Sooner

Trials of any kind have risk but without these trials medicine advancements would grind to a halt.  Reasonable measures are needed to make any trial as safe as possible and past trials have demonstrated reasonable safety.  There are also risks of complications from extended vaccine use and people not protected that needs to be considered here.  As I said before one would need to consider the details before a challenge trial or any trial for that matter goes forward.  As has been pointed out at my age I won't be part of the trial but basically I think a challenge trial makes sense in this case.

[DanZemke]

1 hour ago, Randyretired said:

basically I think a challenge trial makes sense in this case.

You were the first to inject the idea of challenge trials into this thread.  Thank you!

Some people may be uncomfortable dealing with Expected Values (potential outcomes weighted by probabilities).  Others may be uncomfortable with dealing with Ethics.  My impression is that Ethics and Expected Values are orthogonal views of a decision space.  If we focus on a single perspective, we're more likely to make a poor decision.  

Basically, I think challenge trials make sense for Covid-19.  They will not be perfect, but IMO, they are more likely to reduce misery and deaths than any approach which over-weights short-term safety.

Edited July 18, 2020 by DanZemke

[Randyretired]

39 minutes ago, DanZemke said:

You were the first to inject the idea of challenge trials into this thread.  Thank you!

Some people may be uncomfortable dealing with Expected Values (potential outcomes weighted by probabilities).  Others may be uncomfortable with dealing with Ethics.  My impression is that Ethics and Expected Values are orthogonal views of a decision space.  If we focus on a single perspective, we're more likely to make a poor decision.  

Basically, I think challenge trials make sense for Covid-19.  They will not be perfect, but IMO, they are more likely to reduce misery and deaths than any approach which over-weights short-term safety.

 

It would seem that if any condition could warrant a challenge trial covid would.  The sooner this virus can be controlled the more lives saved, more misery averted and a chance for people to get back to work.  For far to many this has been and probably will continue to be a major tragedy that will shape lives from now on and destroy many.  As the death toll climbs we pray for relief.

[RV_]

Thanks Kirk, I don't have any target on your back I drew!

[RV_]

On 7/17/2020 at 9:06 AM, bigjim said:

Yea thats because you both were able to agree that you both married UP to very patient women.🙂 

 

[rynosback]

On 7/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, Darryl&Rita said:

Walmart should be interesting on Monday.

I agree. I went to one today in Rapid City and maybe 10% were wearing one. Maybe there stocking up on food? 
when I go to a store I might hang out for a little bit and support the greater to make sure that they do not get a bunch of shit from a customer giving them a hard time.

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, rynosback said:

I agree. I went to one today in Rapid City and maybe 10% were wearing one. Maybe there stocking up on food? 

That is interesting. The one that we go to most here in Mesquite TX, seems to have had about more than 90% of the customers and all employees wearing masks. I suspect that there are several reasons for the difference. Texas is one of the hot spots currently and the state had issued a mask order back on June 2. When I was in Lowe's about two weeks ago, I saw only 1 employee and 2 customers without masks. 

[LindaH]

The only store we've been inside since early March is Costco during their senior hour.  Everyone we've seen is wearing masks...I've not noticed anyone INSIDE the store without their masks.  Maybe because it's senior hour?  At any rate, the store during that hour has few customers and we've been able to get in and out in less than an hour.

[Darryl&Rita]

2 hours ago, LindaH said:

The only store we've been inside since early March is Costco during their senior hour.  Everyone we've seen is wearing masks...I've not noticed anyone INSIDE the store without their masks.  Maybe because it's senior hour?  At any rate, the store during that hour has few customers and we've been able to get in and out in less than an hour.

That's Costco policy. No mask, no entry.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Darryl&Rita

[vermilye]

Here in rural upstate NY, I'd say we are at about 90% for masks in the big box stores, closer to 100% in grocery stores.  We are still under required masks or 6" distancing, but that tends to fall apart for outside activities.  

At least for surgery prep, Covid tests only take 2 days.  Our area is under Stage 4 rules...

[Randyretired]

Here in Western Colorado masks were not worn in a lot of places and even less in the rural areas outside the city.  However, the govenor has made masks mandatory now so we will see.  Covid has not been wide spread here and there are 0 deaths attributed to it here but cases are on the rise.  A large percentage of the new cases have been traced to visitors and locals traveling.  The local sheriff isn't likely to enforce the mask mandate.

[DanZemke]

1 hour ago, vermilye said:

We are still under required masks or 6" distancing

Most of us wear masks here too.  And our curve has gone way down.  I'm amazed that NY has been so successful in suppressing your curve with a 6 inch distancing rule.

🙂

[Dutch_12078]

2 hours ago, DanZemke said:

Most of us wear masks here too.  And our curve has gone way down.  I'm amazed that NY has been so successful in suppressing your curve with a 6 inch distancing rule.

🙂

The NY 6 inch rule is only for people that live in the same household, Dan. It's 6 feet for others, and 500 feet for those with  a restraining order...

[rynosback]

1 hour ago, Dutch_12078 said:

The NY 6 inch rule is only for people that live in the same household, Dan. It's 6 feet for others, and 500 feet for those with  a restraining order...

LOL...

[DanZemke]

2 hours ago, Dutch_12078 said:

The NY 6 inch rule is only for people that live in the same household

I WAS AWARE OF THAT !!!!

The problem is, this sensible rule is not being ENFORCED!.  Many NY married couples violate the "no closer than 6 inches" rule.  And some households consist of members who are NOT MARRIED AND ARE ALSO VIOLATING THE RULE.

Touche 

[Dutch_12078]

14 minutes ago, DanZemke said:

I WAS AWARE OF THAT !!!!

The problem is, this sensible rule is not being ENFORCED!.  Many NY married couples violate the "no closer than 6 inches" rule.  And some households consist of members who are NOT MARRIED AND ARE ALSO VIOLATING THE RULE.

Touche 

The 6 inch rule only applies when out in public...

[DanZemke]

As Gilda Radner used to say: Nevermind

Thanks for the chuckles.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by DanZemke

[rynosback]

On 7/15/2020 at 1:52 PM, Zulu said:

 

Dan, here's the kicker -- just 50% of Americans plan to get the COVID-19 vaccine.

I thought is was a lot less then that? I will not be getting one when it comes out. To many unknowns about any long term effects. I will stick with my mask and social distancing.

[RV_]

Dutch Good one!

I am sure all those ready to fight women and be Karens claiming they have rights being violated and are willing to fight innocent bystanders and store personnel for them are just punks. If they really wanted to fight for their rights maybe they could swap places with our front line troops?

Not wearing a mask makes me feel like that person is playing Russian Roulette but with a gun aimed at me and my wife and children and Grand Kids. Pulling the trigger day after day then being surprised by a shot killing or maiming an innocent. But instead of saying I didn't know it was loaded, they will say I didn't know I had it because I had no symptoms.

Edited July 21, 2020 by RV_

[Kirk W]

11 hours ago, RV_ said:

Not wearing a mask makes me feel like that person is playing Russian Roulette but with a gun aimed at me and my wife and children and Grand Kids. Pulling the trigger day after day then being surprised by a shot killing or maiming an innocent. But instead of saying I didn't know it was loaded, they will say I didn't know I had it because I had no symptoms.

Well put!

[LindaH]

20 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

That's Costco policy. No mask, no entry.

Yes, I know it's Costco's policy.  But I've heard lots of reports that, once inside, many people take their masks off.  That hasn't been our experience during senior hour -- we haven't seen anyone wandering around without a mask.

[Dutch_12078]

I've seen a few stores in our area with identical signs saying that masks must be properly worn for entry and while shopping, with a couple of right/wrong illustrations. A friend said he thought the local Chamber of Commerce was supplying them.

[docj]

13 hours ago, RV_ said:

Not wearing a mask makes me feel like that person is playing Russian Roulette but with a gun aimed at me and my wife and children and Grand Kids. Pulling the trigger day after day then being surprised by a shot killing or maiming an innocent. But instead of saying I didn't know it was loaded, they will say I didn't know I had it because I had no symptoms.

Maybe people would accept wearing masks more if they understood that the data is showing that masks appear to reduce the severity of the disease if you do catch it.  It's what the doctors call the "viral load".  Your body can fight off a small number of virus particles without you getting all that sick, but if you inhale lots of them they can overwhelm your defenses.  

Mask wearing can reduce severity of COVID-19 cases

[Barbaraok]

2 hours ago, LindaH said:

Yes, I know it's Costco's policy.  But I've heard lots of reports that, once inside, many people take their masks off.  That hasn't been our experience during senior hour -- we haven't seen anyone wandering around without a mask.

Some do, and a lot are ask to get their masks back on, or are kicked out of the store and their membership terminated.  Companies  can have them removed and CHARGED  for trespassing if they won't comply.   Businesses have more power than they realize.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Barbaraok

[vermilye]

20 hours ago, DanZemke said:

Most of us wear masks here too.  And our curve has gone way down.  I'm amazed that NY has been so successful in suppressing your curve with a 6 inch distancing rule.

🙂

Oops!  Of course it should be 6'...