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That't why I used the term 'fuzzy math' above.

For instance, an axle manufacturer could de-rate a 44,000# axle just by supplying it (or specifying) with fewer (or less stiff) leafs in the spring pack, or the buyer might keep the heavy duty axle but swap in lower capacity air bags and shocks when they change the hitch arrangement.

So, between the build sheet, the hardware specs, the registration documentation, the manufacturer rating when originally titled, the end user requested specs or changes, the state of registration, IFTA operating authority, DOT registration, and a boatload of other issues, the hardware ratings are generally not going to be exactly the same as the legal, 'DOT' ratings.....meaning that, legally, two identical trucks coming off the assembly floor, could, in theory, have a Class 8 and a Class 7 rating a month later.  

This doesn't happen normally in commercial trucking, but I could see it being possible for special or custom trucks, driven by non-CDL private owners, in recreational vehicle service. 




Edited by podwerkz

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On 6/28/2020 at 5:04 PM, Scrap said:

You guys are looking at the problem all wrong.........😉  😀



complete with KW mud flaps....lucky!!

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Class5 - 19,500lbs GVW

Class 6 - 26,000lbs GVW

A  2 axle - 12K front 21K rear truck is a class 7 rated at 33K my the OEM. 

A  2 axle 13,200K/14,600K/16K/18K/20K/22K front and 21K/23K rear truck is a class 8

OEM GVW rating determines class not what's legal axle loading. 

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If tweaking the ratings just right is critical to your operation (aka you've got a niche in your state law or your life depends on a RV niche) you better get your trucks now or spend some serious time figuring our where you are going to land with GHG 2021 trucks later this year.  You can still get your exact numbers and it doesn't have a GHG mileage limit (thanks to EMA and NTEA for fighting for what's right), but a mere mortal at the OEM stuffing specs into the GHG machine can't keep up with all the finer resolution of numbers.  Plus it takes $ to do all the CFD studies, etc.  So at least at the start you are going to get bucketed.  You'll get close to what you need but for now you'll be grouped with your peers.  Yep, there went your competitive edge against them...  So you need to get with your regional sales manager now to get it figured out.  Do the affected components affect your niche?  Do you hold off all truck buying until you can get a big enough order to get yourself in the GEM model to get your exact spec orderable through 2027?  Or do you buy a ton now and overhaul em till you retire?  The OEM needs that info (thus your regional sales manager) so they can balance their future product plan.  Your 100 trucks might wipe out the ability to sell 10 bush trucks and they need to balance that.

So for an example for you guys situation:  Your trucks will be vocational ratings and probably won't be able to get the electronic gizmos of a highway truck (HHD Vocation Regional group to be exact; Google it).  Say Jack gets his secret sauce together and wants to do 100 trucks for next year, with the first one ready for the rally this October.  He gets that 2020 built with the 700HP Volvo, a direct drive IShift, 20K axle with 15K suspension, the biggest condo you've ever seen, and special fairings with integral drom and tips that push air around the car and reattach at the sweet spot of the trailer.  He's got his weight ratings just right so it is the first one under FET.  Truck's built, bed's put on, heads to the rally.  Rally goes crazy, 1/3 of the forum trucks are dropped on the spot for Jack's new one, and he goes home and gets to drawing the new bed and lasering a pile of iron.

Now after awhile the fun turns into paperwork and he ain't doing none of this EPA horsepuckey.  He ain't payin NTEA their lynch fee to register himself as a secondary GHG manufacturer with the OEM's.  He tells his Volvo salesman to shove it -we're repeating that VIN we built last fall and that is that.  If you can't do it then I'll take my $2M to someone that can.  I don't want to hear about it again - have them on my lot before Sturgis.  Fine, guy goes away and makes a spec and qty 100.  Sends back a bunch of pre-bill mumbo jumbo that nobody reads. 

Couple months later the 3-ways start rolling in and Jack Facebooks a wrecker operation of the likes that nobody has seen before.  They got the paint and they got the wheelbase, it is going to be awesome.  Facebook some more teasers.  Then he opens up the first truck.  It's got a 9 liter, but 700HP 500tq RV/Fire rated.  It's got a 6 speed torque converter with 15 different economy modes in its software and 5 mode buttons on its shifter.  It lane keeps, but only on freshly painted roads to US standard.  It's got the right rear end, but it cost him $14K for the aluminum carrier.  Its got the right weight ratings, but it has a carbon fiber Z-spring and the smallest steering gear and draglinks a guy has ever seen on a truck.  It's got the short fairings and extender tips, but it has an auto adjustable wing at the top that you are supposed set where you need it somewhere deep in the dash menus.

So what happened?  It all changed on the 2021 model.  The overall picture wasn't set up, and the demo truck specs got put in the GEM model and it spit out (errr 'simulated') the functionally same truck but with the balance of lightweighting and technology that GHG 21 wants.  GHG was happy and OEM can go on selling all the other stuff they want.  Unfortunately it isn't the same truck as the 2020 in the real world.  You can still get what you want but it'll take some more back office work to make it happen.  Avoid it and you'll get a surprise showing up on your lot.

Yes, I exaggerate and I don't even know how it is all going to work out, but I'm betting somewhere in the country in the commercial world the above scenario is going to happen next year.  I pick on Jack because we used to always pick on Jack long ago, but we all know he spends a hell of a lot of time keeping up with industry garbage instead of just playing with metal.  I assume it is stuff he is dealing with right now.  Point being it is all going to change between now and 2027 and we gotta keep up with it or you get the cookie cutter truck they want you to have....

Oh, and related to class 8 OEM (or OEM pass-thru) 4 doors, they fall in the same GHG stuff.  On top of that, with OSHA and county health department virus rules it is hard to get 4 guys in a commercial truck together in a lot of places nowadays.  Even more, the new logbook rules for this fall heavily gear towards coffin sleeper instead of 4 door or even day cab.  So 4-door will be dying in the short term, and may not get the push they need to be set for GHG 21 either.  Again, it is volume vs product plan, and they may lose or get put off a few years.

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I don’t know the regs, but the Freightliner M2 is a class 7 truck. Available in a 2 axle or 3 axle configuration. 


they also list it with a gvrw of 66,000lbs


The Cascadia is a class 8 available in a 2 axle or 3 axle configuration.  


here are Peterbilts offerings. 

Model 348 class 7 Medium duty truck. 


389 class 8 tractor. 


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2 hours ago, Scrap said:

If tweaking the ratings just right is critical to your operation (aka you've got a niche in your state law or your life depends on a RV niche) you better get your trucks now or spend some serious time figuring our where you are going to land with GHG 2021 trucks later this year.  <Snip>

I am the proud owner of a 2012 eco special set the world on fire with fuel mileage truck. There is a reason the original fleet dumped it with 420k on it.

I predict many disappointed owners and operators next year!

Now if I had extra time and money at the moment, I saw a sweet big hood double bunk Autocar for sale a few weeks ago. I’m sure it would suit me just fine.

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Ha, yea, from Formulas to PEEC's, Super 10's to Ultrashifts, Jifflox to 6X2's, there always has been and always will be new fangled ways to save fuel and emissions on the pavement pounders!   Sometimes it is nice to have a good ol regular truck that just does its thing!

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Guys, don't forget that your limiting factor for our RV haulers will be your hitch!  Doesn't matter if you're singled or tandem, it's always going to be the least amount of allowed weight as your limit!  Our hitches tend to make the majority of us class 7.

Edited by HERO Maker

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