m2 106 air leaks

[hemsteadc]

Before I try to take a picture of a leaky hose,  I thought I'd ask..  how do you guys deal with air leaks?

It seems I  always have a leak somewhere, and it's getting irritating having to take it to the shop.  This time it's a small green hose that fits into the rear junction box near the rear axle. Is this a diy thing?

The pump cycles about every minute or so.  Is that too much?

thanks

Edited May 24, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Darryl&Rita]

Fix them yourself, you'll go broke feeding a shop. Yes, that's a big leak (or multiple)  to cycle that often.

[DesertMiner]

Check your air governor....

[ms60ocb]

A couple questions.

Do you have problems finding the leaks or fixing after you find the leak. The a instrument I believe called the "Whisper" that work better the soap bubbles has a locator. Harbor Freight (but I like the local farm supply better) has some tools to put bands on your connectors.

Do you have air brakes or Hydraulic?

How old is your truck? My M2-106 isn't that old but a couple leaks I have had hose wise just needed a longer length of hose as  the movement the  hose was being stressed.

Clay I try to fix things myself as often the fix takes less time than the drive to a repair shop.

[hemsteadc]

So, how DO you fix them yourself?  Does the hose and fitting just pull out? 

[hemsteadc]

3 minutes ago, ms60ocb said:

Do you have problems finding the leaks or fixing after you find the leak. 

Do you have air brakes or Hydraulic?

How old is your truck? My M2-106 isn't that old but a couple leaks I have had hose wise just needed a longer length of hose as  the movement the  hose was being stressed.

 

I can find some of them with bubbles.  I don't know how to fix them.  Hydraulic. 2008.  

Seems like I can't go a year without springing more leaks. I thought air ride was pretty cool at first, but now it's just a big pita.

Edited May 25, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Darryl&Rita]

If you have "Push to Connect" fittings, release the air pressure, push the locking ring into the fitting with an open end wrench, push the line into the fitting, pull the line out. Check the air line for scratches or external damage in the sealing surfaces. Most of the fittings have removable/replaceable o-rings and colettes that may be needed if the line isn't showing damage. If you have fittings that require wrenches to tighten, congratulations, you don't have leaks there.

[hemsteadc]

thank you. Reverse process to insert?

Edited May 25, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Darryl&Rita]

Push the airline into the fitting. Wait for leak to appear. Not if, when. These fittings only exist to speed up the assembly line.

[hemsteadc]

What I find so frustrating is that, if you have  'substantial' leaks, you can never hear them.

Entertain another question from me, please:

The rear axle bags always stay up, even if the air gauge reads zero. The cab bags do not stay up, not even for a few hours.  I have checked both needle valves on both tanks and they are not leaking.

Does this suggest anything? 

Edited May 25, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Darryl&Rita]

Once any air bag is up to pressure,  the leveling valve will isolate it from the rest of the air system. Assuming no leaks in the valve, or the bags, or the connections between, then the bags will stay up. If the system leaks down, and the valve passes, the bags will flatten. If the system maintains pressure, but the bags or their lines pass, the system will flatten, then the bags will follow.

In your case, the suspension system would appear to be leak free, while the cab system is suspect.

[hemsteadc]

19 minutes ago, Darryl&Rita said:

 If the system leaks down, and the valve passes, the bags will flatten

What does 'the valve passes' mean? Passes air?

Edited May 25, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Darryl&Rita]

It ain't passing gas, or slower traffic, or kidney stones. Just sayin'. Yes, it must be passing air, due to a bad sealing surface inside the valve.

[hemsteadc]

It's down to 25lb after sitting for a little over 2 hours.  That seems like a pretty substantial leak.

[Darryl&Rita]

Or a bunch of smaller ones.

[hemsteadc]

Yes, a  bunch of smaller ones is what it  usually is.  I've discovered just the one I mentioned, it does bubble, makes no noise, but to this layman that doesn't seem like enough of a leak to cause what I'm seeing.

With your comments Darryl&Rita  I'll tell my mechanic to pay close attention to the cab bag system. Replacing one fitting, maybe I could do that, but  I am simply not equipped to do much more than that.

Edited May 25, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Ray,IN]

9 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Push the airline into the fitting. Wait for leak to appear. Not if, when. These fittings only exist to speed up the assembly line.

And if the end it not cut exactly square it leaks eventually, as it seals against an "O" ring.This short video show how to use Push-to-connect fittings (pardon the strong British accent):

hemsteadc, working underneath a vehicle with air springs requires some safety measures. The first is to block under the frame to prevent a total loss of air from pinning a worker or suffocating them. This allows you to remove or detach an air line while there is no air in the system. Over time connections loosen, corrode, and/or rubber hardens; this is normal as vehicles age.

My second safety measure is, I never crawl underneath a vehicle without first telling someone my plans, including time-frame.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Ray,IN

[rickeieio]

6 minutes ago, Ray,IN said:

And it the end it not cut exactly square it leaks eventually, as it seals against an "O" ring.

Incorrect.  The end is not important, as it's the circumference of the line that slips through the o-ring.  While a nice square end looks nice, it matters not.  Prove it to yourself, when you remove an old line.  There will be an indentation around the line where the collett has presses the o-ring into it.  If you have a little spare length, cut about 1/4" away and you'll have nice fresh smooth line for the o-ring to seat against.

[Darryl&Rita]

Right you are, Rick. That's part of the surface wear/damage I was referring to.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Darryl&Rita

[Ray,IN]

10 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Incorrect.  The end is not important, as it's the circumference of the line that slips through the o-ring.  While a nice square end looks nice, it matters not.  Prove it to yourself, when you remove an old line.  There will be an indentation around the line where the collett has presses the o-ring into it.  If you have a little spare length, cut about 1/4" away and you'll have nice fresh smooth line for the o-ring to seat against.

Would you believe a company that manufactures push-in air fittings?https://www.airliftcompany.com/workshop/push-to-connect-air-fittings/

Edited May 26, 2020 by Ray,IN

[rickeieio]

Okay, I should have said the end isn't important within reason.  As long as you use a sharp tool and cut reasonably square, it'll be fine.  A 45* cut won't do, as the o-ring isn't situated that far back from the end.  Your statement that the end must be "exactly square" is just wrong.

 I still stand by the fact that the o-ring does not seat the end of the line, rather the outer surface some distance back from the end.  This distance varies with line diameter.  In general, it will be back about 1/2 the diameter of the tube.

[ms60ocb]

16 hours ago, Darryl&Rita said:

Or a bunch of smaller ones.

That was my problem in the seats. Also I a back massager on my seat that used air. It was on when I chased a leak. The real leak appeared than  it really was.

My problems were always in the connectors like Ray,IN shows except a Cab air bag

Clay

[hemsteadc]

4 hours ago, Ray,IN said:

My second safety measure is, I never crawl underneath a vehicle without first telling someone my plans, including time-fra

Really.  It's scary and hard to work.  Been thinking of digging a pit.

I find it rather hard to believe that a leak as big as this cannot be heard.

Edited May 26, 2020 by hemsteadc

[Ray,IN]

11 hours ago, hemsteadc said:

Really.  It's scary and hard to work.  Been thinking of digging a pit.

I find it rather hard to believe that a leak as big as this cannot be heard.

I constructed 4 wooden ramps from 2"X10" used lumber, cut 45° on one end, each plank 12" shorter than the longest 4' board - the lower one, stacked 3 high and fastened together with deck screws. Only 2 ramps are needed for front tires, but 4 must be used for duals. Drove MH onto ramps, blocked under frame.

Yes, they are heavy to move around, but entirely safe for working underneath the MH. Instead of soapy water, I use cheap bubble soap for kids from a Dollar store.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Ray,IN

[ms60ocb]

11 hours ago, hemsteadc said:

I find it rather hard to believe that a leak as big as this cannot be heard.

Here is the instrument I purchased several years for less then $200. I think it paid itself in the first 2 events,  plus I didn't have to drive a hour to spend a $100.

Search;    INFICON 711-202-G1 Whisper Ultrasonic Leak Detector

Read the reviews on Amazon

Clay