Travel Plans, 2020

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, Jim & Alice said:

 Lets all hope & Pray that this thing resolves soon!

Amen! We are still hoping to get to spend a couple of weeks up in Kansas at our relative's farm.

[Dollytrolley]

 

Well I have sat back waiting a bit to chime into this group…...you see in my ….” declining years I seem to become a bit more of a wimpy than I was in my “Save-the-world-youth”…….this discussion seems to have a fairly “sharp edge” at times……..

 

So…..

 

In late December last year I answered a call from a OLD doctor that I used to fly to VERY remote places where he would conduct medical research….. much of the time studying local infections and native populations.

 

This doc minced no small talk and ask, “where are you”?

 

I said “ I am at our winter camp at Last Chance Peak just East of Death Valley”.

 

Doc said “Listen UP, there is a pandemic of likely epic portions that will NOT be mitigated easily so hunker down where you are and STAY AWAY FROM EVERYONE…….PERIOD…….I will call you when it makes sense to go out again”

 

So……..we locked the gate and planted a large garden in one of the Hottest places on earth and geezer-nap in the shade in the heat of the day……

 

It seems that the news indicates that a LOT of folks are going crazy in the lock down and I could understand that to a point.

 

IF by chance you are bored and want a challenge that will absolutely keep you VERY busy…...Try cobbling up a summer garden on the edge of Death Valley…...Trust me YOU WILL BE BUSY and not all of the seedlings will make it……….heck a guy down the road told us that the devil winters next door to him and the Devil left last Thursday at 101f muttering that hell was cooler……

 

Anyway, here we are, and it WILL get hotter for sure, and likely some more garden plants will get brown and blow away but hey that is farming right?

 

So now I will hazard a bit of flack by making a few comments about……..Experts…..Opinions…..Facts….and Unknowns………and…...Situational Awareness…….

 

“Experts” come in all kinds of sizes and flavors now that the internet has opened up the job of being a “Expert” to almost anyone with a internet connection.

 

I must say I am stunned how many “Medical / Biological EXPERTS” have ALL of their “Training originating from the internet”…….

 

Doc had to get by with years and years at Yale, Harvard, Stanford…….just imagine how inferior he must feel not having the internet to get him “elevated knowledge base’ that the average internet user has these days.

 

You see many moons ago I WAS in Charge of saving the WORLD …….I was hot stuff…You see I WAS a EXPERT before the internet……..sorta.

 

In the real world I was a fair pilot most of the time and good enough to retire from flying without killing myself or others and so upon retirement I can now claim to be a expert pilot in FACT.

 

The other thing that the internet has “gifted” us with a LOT of FACTS that are actually OPINIONS dressed up to look like FACTS often thrown about by folks who may claim to be EXPERTS when they are NOT….

 

All this now leads up to …….. Situational Awareness & Unknowns……..

 

When a person first learns to fly often they seek a private pilots license or sport license with fairly limited training and limitations related to flight operations.

 

If one decides to seek to become a professional pilot the training, testing, and skill levels tend to become more elevated as flight operations become more complex.

 

One of the never ending professional pilot training subjects that is always stressed is the concept of Situational Awareness (S A) .

 

The formal definition of SA is broken down into three segments:

 

1. Perception of the elements in the environment.

 

2. Comprehension of the situation.

 

3. Projection of future status.

 

Inadequate Situation Awareness has been identified as one of the primary factors in accidents attributed to human error.

 

You see Situational Awareness is NOT an exact science and it has to deal with a lot of unknowns but history has proven that Situational Awareness has a lot of merit.

 

Flying Doc around was a SERIOUS job with plenty dangerous conditions that were VERY difficult to mitigate.

 

In Docs mindset by FAR, the largest risk was that of PANDEMIC…….

 

You see Doc KNEW for a FACT that NONE of the remote tribal members had ANY IMMUNITY to ANY of the conditions that he or I could INFECT these tribal members with, and that IF we were to pass an outside-world infection into the tribe it would ALMOST CERTAINLY RESULT IN EXTINCTION of the tribe…...Chilling…….

 

Doc took intense precautions to limit the infection risks to tribe members and I was allowed NOT ANY CONTACT WHATSOEVER with tribal members.

 

Doc loved to fly and was cursed as a marginal pilot at best, but I would let him fly as much as he desired but here is the odd thing…….if the weather became a lit bit marginal or operations became complex he would simply say “You have the airplane”…...you see Doc’s intense medical training utilized Situation Awareness in EVERY action he took. Doc’s Perception told him that elements in the environment were changing. Doc Comprehended that the situation was approaching his limitations of flight operations. Doc KNEW that it was time to pass control of the aircraft back to me since his Projection of the near future status of the aircraft operation might exceed his flight limitations.

 

The vast majority of the population of the U S A has NO Situational Awareness Training Whatsoever so the critical steps to understand the methods needed to be able to understand the fatal nature of this pandemic and the methods needed to deal with the pandemic are missing from the public national response to the pandemic.

 

History does not treat populations well at all that ……...Ignore Situational Awareness…….

 

Drive on………..Once your Situational Awareness PROVES with actual FACTS that it is safe…….

 

[docj]

9 minutes ago, Dollytrolley said:

 

Well I have sat back waiting a bit to chime into this group…...you see in my ….” declining years I seem to become a bit more of a wimpy than I was in my “Save-the-world-youth”…….this discussion seems to have a fairly “sharp edge” at times……..

 

So…..

 

In late December last year I answered a call from a OLD doctor that I used to fly to VERY remote places where he would conduct medical research….. much of the time studying local infections and native populations.

 

This doc minced no small talk and ask, “where are you”?

 

I said “ I am at our winter camp at Last Chance Peak just East of Death Valley”.

 

Doc said “Listen UP, there is a pandemic of likely epic portions that will NOT be mitigated easily so hunker down where you are and STAY AWAY FROM EVERYONE…….PERIOD…….I will call you when it makes sense to go out again”

 

So……..we locked the gate and planted a large garden in one of the Hottest places on earth and geezer-nap in the shade in the heat of the day……

 

It seems that the news indicates that a LOT of folks are going crazy in the lock down and I could understand that to a point.

 

IF by chance you are bored and want a challenge that will absolutely keep you VERY busy…...Try cobbling up a summer garden on the edge of Death Valley…...Trust me YOU WILL BE BUSY and not all of the seedlings will make it……….heck a guy down the road told us that the devil winters next door to him and the Devil left last Thursday at 101f muttering that hell was cooler……

 

Anyway, here we are, and it WILL get hotter for sure, and likely some more garden plants will get brown and blow away but hey that is farming right?

 

So now I will hazard a bit of flack by making a few comments about……..Experts…..Opinions…..Facts….and Unknowns………and…...Situational Awareness…….

 

“Experts” come in all kinds of sizes and flavors now that the internet has opened up the job of being a “Expert” to almost anyone with a internet connection.

 

I must say I am stunned how many “Medical / Biological EXPERTS” have ALL of their “Training originating from the internet”…….

 

Doc had to get by with years and years at Yale, Harvard, Stanford…….just imagine how inferior he must feel not having the internet to get him “elevated knowledge base’ that the average internet user has these days.

 

You see many moons ago I WAS in Charge of saving the WORLD …….I was hot stuff…You see I WAS a EXPERT before the internet……..sorta.

 

In the real world I was a fair pilot most of the time and good enough to retire from flying without killing myself or others and so upon retirement I can now claim to be a expert pilot in FACT.

 

The other thing that the internet has “gifted” us with a LOT of FACTS that are actually OPINIONS dressed up to look like FACTS often thrown about by folks who may claim to be EXPERTS when they are NOT….

 

All this now leads up to …….. Situational Awareness & Unknowns……..

 

When a person first learns to fly often they seek a private pilots license or sport license with fairly limited training and limitations related to flight operations.

 

If one decides to seek to become a professional pilot the training, testing, and skill levels tend to become more elevated as flight operations become more complex.

 

One of the never ending professional pilot training subjects that is always stressed is the concept of Situational Awareness (S A) .

 

The formal definition of SA is broken down into three segments:

 

1. Perception of the elements in the environment.

 

2. Comprehension of the situation.

 

3. Projection of future status.

 

Inadequate Situation Awareness has been identified as one of the primary factors in accidents attributed to human error.

 

You see Situational Awareness is NOT an exact science and it has to deal with a lot of unknowns but history has proven that Situational Awareness has a lot of merit.

 

Flying Doc around was a SERIOUS job with plenty dangerous conditions that were VERY difficult to mitigate.

 

In Docs mindset by FAR, the largest risk was that of PANDEMIC…….

 

You see Doc KNEW for a FACT that NONE of the remote tribal members had ANY IMMUNITY to ANY of the conditions that he or I could INFECT these tribal members with, and that IF we were to pass an outside-world infection into the tribe it would ALMOST CERTAINLY RESULT IN EXTINCTION of the tribe…...Chilling…….

 

Doc took intense precautions to limit the infection risks to tribe members and I was allowed NOT ANY CONTACT WHATSOEVER with tribal members.

 

Doc loved to fly and was cursed as a marginal pilot at best, but I would let him fly as much as he desired but here is the odd thing…….if the weather became a lit bit marginal or operations became complex he would simply say “You have the airplane”…...you see Doc’s intense medical training utilized Situation Awareness in EVERY action he took. Doc’s Perception told him that elements in the environment were changing. Doc Comprehended that the situation was approaching his limitations of flight operations. Doc KNEW that it was time to pass control of the aircraft back to me since his Projection of the near future status of the aircraft operation might exceed his flight limitations.

 

The vast majority of the population of the U S A has NO Situational Awareness Training Whatsoever so the critical steps to understand the methods needed to be able to understand the fatal nature of this pandemic and the methods needed to deal with the pandemic are missing from the public national response to the pandemic.

 

History does not treat populations well at all that ……...Ignore Situational Awareness…….

 

Drive on………..Once your Situational Awareness PROVES with actual FACTS that it is safe…….

 

Well said, but probably a bit too obtuse for some.

[Dollytrolley]

1 minute ago, docj said:

Well said, but probably a bit too obtuse for some.

Good morning Doc......

Nice word-crafting with "obtuse"......likely sad but true that S A seems "above the pay-grade" for too many folks around the country today.

Having spending much of my adult life involved in sometimes Insanely Dangerous endeavors I will tell anyone who will listen that   Situational Awareness is a Priceless resource to practice when dealing with the VAST Unknowns of Covid-19.....Priceless....

 

Drive on..........However......before Driving On........give Situational Awareness a good honest effort.....

 

 

[trailertraveler]

1 hour ago, Dollytrolley said:

.give Situational Awareness a good honest effort.

Well in my first post to this topic, I stated that we got stuck in Florida. We spent 5 weeks in a Thousand Trails Park with mostly snowbirds, full timers and some long term working folks. With all the travel restrictions, there was not much we could do about the situation. From there we moved to a county park in southern GA that has large sites separated by vegetation. It was harder to stay away from the squirrels and armadillos that visited our site than the other campers. We are now at a Commercial Park South of Savannah that is surrounded by vacant land.  The 50 site long term section is completely full. There are numerous workers that go out and come back to their RVs each day. Today, the 52 site transient section has 16 RVs and two tent campers spaced well apart. So who is faced with greater exposure based on numbers and distance; the long term stays or the transients? 

In the areas where we have stayed we have not found it more difficult to shelter in place/stay at home, social distance, wear a mask, wash our hands or disinfect items brought into the trailer just because our location changes. Check-in at the parks has all been curbside or with no contact with staff at all. Most indoor spaces have been closed. The laundries have had a one person limit and had clean supplies available to wipe down surfaces and wash hands.

South Carolina and North Carolina just reopened RV Parks to overnight stays. In South Carolina you have to show that you have not been in a state that still has a stay at home order for the past 14 days.  After a night in South Carolina and North Carolina in the middle of the week, we will spend the summer at our usual location surrounded by state wildlife management area lands. As of now, we are still planning to head to New Mexico and Arizona in August through November.

Edited May 11, 2020 by trailertraveler

[docj]

2 hours ago, Dollytrolley said:

 Situational Awareness is a Priceless resource to practice when dealing with the VAST Unknowns of Covid-19.....

We just before this mess became very widespread we were visited by #3 son and his family.  We took them around Corpus Christi for several days but, for the most part, we were able to avoid crowded venues. 

On the last day of their visit we went to the USS Lexington which my grandson had been bugging us to do the entire week.  However, when we got on the Lex it was apparent that it was overrun with school groups.  We assessed our situation, agreed on a few things we could safely see and then we left. 

To me that was a good example of how SA is applied in the current environment.  My wife and I now routinely shop at ~7am when the stores first open.  Social distancing is less important at that hour because virtually no one else is in the store.   The entire activity is more relaxing.

[Dollytrolley]

Doc,

Good examples of S A can be utilized to lessen a probable risk profile and for the most part once you become conditioned to critical thinking S A can be a major tool to filter the Known / Known's..........Known / Unknown's .....and to some extent Unknown / Unknown's........whew.

 

Here is a odd thing that has come back to me since the Covid-19 virus was called out to me by my old Doc client.....and the odd thing is, that since I retired from flying I have NOT had any recurrent S A training for years (used to have recurrent simulator and actual aircraft training EVER 6 months or less) so the odd thing is that the instant Doc called.......the old S A training kicked in suddenly and in many ways life became somewhat less complicated since I was able to vastly simplify the tasks needed from the tasks NOT needed in the near term......

For the most part formal S A training is often required for people with high-risk job profiles however as Covid-19 unfolds it seems that S A could very likely be a concept that could help many people obtain some of the critical thought skills needed to make informed personal decisions.......

Maybe a bit later I might write up a few examples of how S A has helped obtain favorable outcomes from what at first seemed un- survivable situations.......

 

Stay tuned......

 

Drive on..........Before driving......please ponder.....S A

[agesilaus]

I'll have to say this: most MD's are not trained in epidemic control very few are. That's a separate specialty. And few are even trained in infectious disease control besides some general training in med school. And last most doc's are highly conservative (not politically) about managing diseases. They don't get sued for being too cautious.

So I'd listen to what they say but would not always act on their advice unless it makes sense. And it's no use trying to have a discussion with most of them, for the most part they all have doctoritis and firmly believe that non-physicians don't know diddly squat about anything medical matters. Of course they get lots of reinforcement for  that opinion hearing the idiotic opinions of many patients. You know "doctor, doctor...vaccination causes autism!!"

[durangodon]

Looks like another thread headed for a padlock.

[sandsys]

IMO Sully, the pilot who landed his plane on the Hudson River, had the best situational awareness I have ever heard of. If any of you have not watched that movie yet, I highly recommend doing so.

Linda

[Darryl&Rita]

 

[Dollytrolley]

On 5/11/2020 at 6:17 PM, durangodon said:

Looks like another thread headed for a padlock.

Interesting..........

Kirk in the OP ask about 2020 travel plans and wondered how the Covid-19 situation might change folks travel plans / patterns......

Wonder why this thread is headed for the padlock.........help me out here .....being a geezer i tend to drool in my oatmeal a bit......

On 5/11/2020 at 10:51 PM, sandsys said:

IMO Sully, the pilot who landed his plane on the Hudson River, had the best situational awareness I have ever heard of. If any of you have not watched that movie yet, I highly recommend doing so.

Linda

Linda,

You bring up a fairly good public example with the Sully pilot example.

The less known information that the public has not been privy to but is somewhat addressed in the movie is the huge amount of controversy that the accident investigation brought to question many of the Situational Awareness decisions made by Capt. Sully AND the Crew......

Having considerable "Party-Of-Interest" NTSB, Insurance, and Legal Firm accident investigation "experience" I will state as a matter of fact that NO MATTER how well a Pilot OR Crew performs in a emergency, once the investigation starts GOD would be hard pressed to escape the "investigation" with a passing grade.

Now of course the movie Sully is......a movie.....however having been in s few equally grim situations in aircraft I will say that the movie does a fair job of bringing some of the better features of Professional Situational Awareness to light of day for the public IF the public pays attention and grasps the S A features as the events of the situation unfolds.

In the start of my "Aerospace-life" I was dirt poor.......I could not afford a aircraft with a ........engine......so........I scrounged up a........WWII wrecked training GLIDER......I repaired the GLIDER and then a couple of us.......fools took the repaired wreck out to a remote part of the desert and using the Army Air Corps Glider Manual sorta muddled into the basics of flying and landing the GLIDER .......WITHOUT a instructor........NOT a great IDEA ......

Obviously we were NOT disadvantaged with a marginal instructor that might impart bad habits or marginal opinions upon us unwashed-bird-boys (poor instructors would appear later in my professional-pilot life)......

Anyhow the WWII manual was a wealth of Situational Awareness information as only a war-time manual could impart on a couple of fools that were stupid enough to try to teach themselves to fly without formal instruction.......

A few features of our poverty likely saved our hides from the get-go and the number #1 item was the fact that since we did NOT know how to FLY we had no use for a tow airplane so ……..by the “Manual” we used the auto-tow Loooog-cable method to launch the glider into flight…..

It is a sad fact of Aerospace-life that the closer you get to a aircraft the more potential danger you are exposed to and IF said aircraft is moving or recently moving sometimes the danger moves off the far right side of the chart…..

Anyhow, somehow we survived the self-taught GLIDER “School-of-hard-knocks….and landings” and eventually did get more than our fair share of formal instruction.

Obviously I wold NEVER EVER advise ANYONE to try to teach themselves to fly……...However IF anyone has the overwhelming urge to learn to fly I ALWAYS recommend that they first learn to fly Gliders / Sailplanes FIRST.

You see in flying a Glider / Sailplane EVERY flight has a “engine-failure” so a power plant failure in a Glider is NOT an emergency at all…...likewise a aborted landing and go around is not a option in a glider as well so the Situational Awareness in a glider tends to have different factors than in powered aircraft…..under way with normal power.

You see Sully, Crew and passengers took off in a very state of the art airliner and in just a few minutes found themselves in a …….marginal GLIDER…….with vastly limited options for landing areas…..

A modern airliner has HUGE resources of information (and misinformation) available to the pilot and crew however in the Sully-flight the emergency check lists had no real information for a power-off landing in the Hudson River so……..Capt. Sully and crew utilized Situational Awareness and EXPERIENCE to craft a viable solution to a Very Grave situation.

Once in a while in my “checkered-past-aerospace-life” I have been in as bad and a couple worse situations that Capt. Sully was in on the day of the Hudson incident. Situational Awareness has saved my hide many times.

While I seem to have hit a few nerves here with …...Situational Awareness, it should NOT be construed as a TOTAL SOLUTION to the pesky life critical situations…….actually Situational Awareness is a powerful tool that can be very HELPFUL IF……..IF…..properly utilized within it’s …..LIMITATIONS.

Often when humans are confronted with situations that are LIFE THREATENING it IS COMMON that humans may DENY the or downplay the threat.

IF one does NOT be truthful about the KNOWN and KNOWN UNKNOWN’s of factors of a given situation then Situational Awareness as a tool is vastly degraded and may become “Infected with misinformation” to the extent that I may become a threat factor instead of a useful tool.

 

IF you are unable to rigorously practice truth when confronting a LIFE THREATENING SITUATION it is unlikely that Situational Awareness will be useful in assisting you in dealing with the situation(s).

 

Perhaps in a future post I might comment on a few parts of the Capt. Sully incident that the movie was unable to address.

 

Drive on……..Best to stay truthfully …...Aware…...of your …….Situation

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Dollytrolley

[agesilaus]

OK I made reservations starting in early June for a State Park in TN, and then a series of COE CG going west into OK. Waiting there to see what CO does. Our original plans were for boondocking in the CO mountains starting around Pagosa Springs and working north. That got changed by a trip to WY that has now been canceled.

If CO does not open up the National Forests and such I guess we will head north into KS, NE (Niobara River) and WY with MT as the target.

[NDBirdman]

Wife and I gave up on plans for travel this summer/winter.  I just filled my coup with some chicks again so no travel for a little while for sure.