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Confusion over fuse style


alan0043
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Hi Everyone,

I have been confused over what style fuse to use when adding a winch to my truck. I want to use a Blue Sea fuse holder model no.5502 with the cover. Can someone please explain the difference between these fuse styles. ANL; AMG; Class T. Right now it looks like I will need a 175 to 180 amp fuse.

Thanks for any input,
Al

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Being fiscally sensitive, when I ran the wires for my electric roll tarp on the Mack, I put a circuit breaker of appropriate rating about 4" from the positive battery terminal.  Then I wrapped it with a piece of bicycle inner tube and electrical tape, finally enclosing the entire run of 1-0 cable in garden hose a neighbor had thrown in the garbage.  Yes, I'm that tight.  That was at least 10 years ago, and it's still holding up just fine.

My point is: additional insulation can pay dividends later.  I don't expect Al to dumpster dive for green garden hose to drape around his rig, but find something that will give another layer of security.  Chafed wires are no fun.  Using the hose allows me to use a good stainless hose clamp to secure things rather than baling wire and duct tape.

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18 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Being fiscally sensitive, when I ran the wires for my electric roll tarp on the Mack, I put a circuit breaker of appropriate rating about 4" from the positive battery terminal.  Then I wrapped it with a piece of bicycle inner tube and electrical tape, finally enclosing the entire run of 1-0 cable in garden hose a neighbor had thrown in the garbage.  Yes, I'm that tight.  That was at least 10 years ago, and it's still holding up just fine.

My point is: additional insulation can pay dividends later.  I don't expect Al to dumpster dive for green garden hose to drape around his rig, but find something that will give another layer of security.  Chafed wires are no fun.  Using the hose allows me to use a good stainless hose clamp to secure things rather than baling wire and duct tape.

Rick,

When I replaced my brake lines on my trailer I wrapped them in rubber (steel mesh reinforced) fuel lines based on a recommendation from David Henegar. Can’t have too much protection. 

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33 minutes ago, rickeieio said:

Being fiscally sensitive, when I ran the wires for my electric roll tarp on the Mack, I put a circuit breaker of appropriate rating about 4" from the positive battery terminal.  Then I wrapped it with a piece of bicycle inner tube and electrical tape, finally enclosing the entire run of 1-0 cable in garden hose a neighbor had thrown in the garbage.  Yes, I'm that tight.  That was at least 10 years ago, and it's still holding up just fine.

My point is: additional insulation can pay dividends later.  I don't expect Al to dumpster dive for green garden hose to drape around his rig, but find something that will give another layer of security.  Chafed wires are no fun.  Using the hose allows me to use a good stainless hose clamp to secure things rather than baling wire and duct tape.

Hi Rick,

I have used old garden hose as protection for wires. I dove into my own dumpster for the hose. lol. I try to protect all the wires on the truck and trailer as much as possible even hydraulic lines.

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17 hours ago, rickeieio said:

Being fiscally sensitive, when I ran the wires for my electric roll tarp on the Mack, I put a circuit breaker of appropriate rating about 4" from the positive battery terminal.

I don't know if it makes any difference or not but when I bought my last side dump their factory tech put the tarp breaker on the negative side.

 

Auto reset breakers are nice. Maybe you can use one for them instead of a fuse.

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I only see one down side to protecting the negative side, but it's a big one.  The bulk of the surfaces the positive wire will rub against are negative.  Get a rubbed spot in the ground wire, and all that will happen is moisture gets in, causing corrosion.  Rub through the insulation on the hot side and you let the smoke out.

Fuse the ground and all you protect is the winch/motor/device.  Fuse the positive and you protect the entire system.

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1 hour ago, rickeieio said:

I only see one down side to protecting the negative side, but it's a big one.  The bulk of the surfaces the positive wire will rub against are negative.  Get a rubbed spot in the ground wire, and all that will happen is moisture gets in, causing corrosion.  Rub through the insulation on the hot side and you let the smoke out.

Fuse the ground and all you protect is the winch/motor/device.  Fuse the positive and you protect the entire system.

Ding ding ding!!! Winner! The fuse or breaker is only there to protect the wiring and the structure the wires are attached to. The motor should be protected by another device, whether a thermal switch, overload, or a current detector circuit. 

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Hi Everyone,

As it looks I probably should sure a T style fuse for the winch. The fuse will go on the positive cable. That is how my inverter is wired up. The link from above ( post #2 ) was a big help. I would still like to hear some thought about the different style of fuses. Is there a wrong style of fuse to use ? Just curious.

Al

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14 minutes ago, alan0043 said:

Hi Everyone,

As it looks I probably should sure a T style fuse for the winch. The fuse will go on the positive cable. That is how my inverter is wired up. The link from above ( post #2 ) was a big help. I would still like to hear some thought about the different style of fuses. Is there a wrong style of fuse to use ? Just curious.

Al

For the most part, different fuse types denote differing mounting/connection styles. Fuse trip characteristics (speed of trip on over current, arc containment, etc) also come into different fuse designations. 

ETA: A Type T fuse is rated for 20000 amp current capacity, but isn't rated for DC voltage. This means that the fuse body will contain a 20000 amp short, without bursting or burning. This rating is only valid for an AC circuit, and no ratings are published for DC circuits. 

Edited by Darryl&Rita
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Al,

Upon looking at my truck the  T fuse shown in my pic is my inverter fuse.  I don’t have one on my winch.  If I recall when I installed mine 10 years ago the Warn wiring diagram didn’t show a fuse and there was a lot of discussions online about fusing or not.  In retrospect I should/will fuse and probably use Scrap’s suggestion or an ANL.
 

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Al, your fuse is a DISASTER fuse.  It is there to protect your batteries and parts of your truck from meltdown should a short develop between positive and ground.  It is not being used as a current overload device to protect the winch but must exceed the maximum current of the winch to be of any benefit.  The type is really insignificant as the time factor for melting the element in the fuse and opening the circuit is basically equal among fuses unless it is specifically noted to be a time delay or slow blow fuse or perhaps fast acting which you do not want or need.  An example of an inexpensive and effective ANL fuse and holder are shown here as advertised on Amazon.  Don't lose sleep over this - just be sure some sort of disaster fuse is used.

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1 minute ago, RandyA said:

Al, your fuse is a DISASTER fuse.  It is there to protect your batteries and parts of your truck from meltdown should a short develop between positive and ground.  It is not being used as a current overload device to protect the winch but must exceed the maximum current of the winch to be of any benefit.  The type is really insignificant as the time factor for melting the element in the fuse and opening the circuit is basically equal among fuses unless it is specifically noted to be a time delay or slow blow fuse or perhaps fast acting which you do not want or need.  An example of an inexpensive and effective ANL fuse and holder are shown here as advertised on Amazon.  Don't lose sleep over this - just be sure some sort of disaster fuse is used.

I've said the same thing, in more than one thread, but I'm quoting it to make sure that some eyes see it again.

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10 hours ago, RandyA said:

Al, your fuse is a DISASTER fuse.  It is there to protect your batteries and parts of your truck from meltdown should a short develop between positive and ground.  It is not being used as a current overload device to protect the winch but must exceed the maximum current of the winch to be of any benefit.  The type is really insignificant as the time factor for melting the element in the fuse and opening the circuit is basically equal among fuses unless it is specifically noted to be a time delay or slow blow fuse or perhaps fast acting which you do not want or need.  An example of an inexpensive and effective ANL fuse and holder are shown here as advertised on Amazon.  Don't lose sleep over this - just be sure some sort of disaster fuse is used.

Not to hijack, but Randy are you saying the fuse must be bigger than than the max the winch can consume or usually consumes? For example my winch is a Warn m8000 (yes overkill, but got a good deal) and at max 8000 pull consumes 425 amps while only 200 at 2000 pull.  So in my application I’m probably at most using 1000-1200 lb pull which should only be about 100-125 amps.  Should the fuse be 425 or greater or maybe just a 250 amp like your example?  

2x3dMTul.jpg

 

Edited by SuiteSuccess
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Rule #1; Fuses protect the wire. If your device pulls 435 amps your cable must be more than 4/0. If you are sure you will only pull 200 amps at top, the marine grade cable can be 2/0, with 300 amp fuse at the battery positive. Fuses protect the wire from overheating and melting or burning the insulation. The fuse has nothing to do with protecting the device. If needed the device will have its own internal fuse.

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On 1/18/2020 at 10:36 AM, alan0043 said:

Hi Everyone,

As it looks I probably should sure a T style fuse for the winch. The fuse will go on the positive cable. That is how my inverter is wired up. The link from above ( post #2 ) was a big help. I would still like to hear some thought about the different style of fuses. Is there a wrong style of fuse to use ? Just curious.

Al

Update ( 01-19-2020 );    T style fuse is out. I was thinking Mega fuse. I have been learning from all of the post in this thread. Keep posting your thoughts. This thread could help some other folks in the near future.

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1 hour ago, rickeieio said:

I never thought about it before, but the biggest amperage draw on the whole truck has no fuse/relay.......the starter.

Short run, theoretically protected from physical damage, and another set of connections to cause a "hood up" problem. Would raise the cost of a new truck by another $20, too.

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On 1/19/2020 at 8:22 AM, SuiteSuccess said:

Not to hijack, but Randy are you saying the fuse must be bigger than than the max the winch can consume or usually consumes? For example my winch is a Warn m8000 (yes overkill, but got a good deal) and at max 8000 pull consumes 425 amps while only 200 at 2000 pull.  So in my application I’m probably at most using 1000-1200 lb pull which should only be about 100-125 amps.  Should the fuse be 425 or greater or maybe just a 250 amp like your example?  

.

 

Carl, I believe Sehc adequately answered your question.  Remember, the purpose is DISASTER protection.  You do not want a fuse that will be blowing all the time when your winch reaches its normal expected maximum load.  If you never pull over 200 amps what you have is fine.  But, if you are constantly popping fuses you need to re-evaluate.  Actually, we can eliminate the "fuse" all together for disaster protection.  Just put a 3" piece of #10 AWG copper wire from the battery to your #2 AWG winch wire where you would normally install a fuse.  This method was popular a few years back for high amperage protection in the automotive world as a "fusable link".  I hope the mention of a fuseable link does not open another can of worms 😎.

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To keep this going a bit longer, if you read threads from most of the off roaders, mudders, etc., they seem to be pretty evenly divided about fusing a winch at all.  Granted most of their winches are on the bumpers but wired under the hood to battery(s).  These folks have a lot of history and experience with winches, so are we HDTers just more cautious or what (don’t want to say smarter because these guys are very creative)?

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Carl, I think you answered your own question <_<.  IMHO, yes, we are a more cautious breed - at least that is the impression I get from hanging out with my mud bogging son and staying at the Windrock Campground when we go to visit my mother.  Windrock is populated with said equipment.  My GMC 3500 dually has an easily removed10,000 pound winch.  Receivers in both the back and front.  The short cable is connected directly to the battery and there are two more cables - one reaches the back of the truck, the other the front.  No, I do not have a disaster fuse.  I should, but my cables are well mounted away from hot exhaust manifolds and sharp objects.  But, on the camper and Volvo anything and everything I've added (inverter, charger, winch, power lead to the back, lighting, amplifier, radios and more) have a fuse.  I have 2500# electric winches on three of my boats and my flat bed trailer has a 4500#.  I do not have a fuse in the power cables.  While I believe it to be a good idea to have a fuse, I don't.  I think, "If some idiot hits my truck in the driver side or some other metal bending and crushing takes place with enough force to damage a cable and set the positive to ground it is almost inevitable that a short may occur and a fire result."  I am less concerned with the 2500# winches on the boat trailers.  Yes, I believe we are a more careful group with our trucks.  As my Dad used to tell me, " Don't do as I do, do as I say."

Just watching the News/weather on the Telly.  It is going to be COLD tonight at 49F and the high tomorrow is expected to only reach 62F. Even colder tomorrow night.  Florida isn't always warm but it is better than 22F back in Virginia.

Edited by RandyA
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On 1/20/2020 at 6:55 PM, SuiteSuccess said:

To keep this going a bit longer, if you read threads from most of the off roaders, mudders, etc., they seem to be pretty evenly divided about fusing a winch at all.  Granted most of their winches are on the bumpers but wired under the hood to battery(s).  These folks have a lot of history and experience with winches, so are we HDTers just more cautious or what (don’t want to say smarter because these guys are very creative)?

Let me add a twist here...

In the boat industry, we always fused at the battery to protect the wiring/cabling as well as the device.  Especially with windlass', electric downriggers, etc.  Better to blow a fuse than melt something that causes you to have to row or swim.

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