Purchasing Firearms in South Dakota PMB Issue

[Pappy Yokum]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:24 AM, #1 nosepicker said:

You can not legally buy insurance for your vehicle in South Dakota with PMB on your drivers licence. I was told that the insurance commissioner requires a permanent garaged residence to buy insurance! insurance agent told me to use a friends address. then when you get in a large dollar accident they will denie you because you lied about your address! They make liers and crooks out of everyone! I guess I have to buy a permanent garaged Physical house to legally buy insurance for my pickup!

"Nosepicker" -  guess you would already know........

You can pick your friends -  and you can pick your nose. 

But you can't pick your friend's nose......ahhhh....without permission.

However you  *CAN*  pick an insurance company that *WILL* insure your rolling stock with PMB on your South Dakota D.L.  Did that for six years from Millers (offices in Oregon, xln't staff). 

Never a "where garaged?"......... car port, or driveway question!

~

 

 

[jblo]

Both my DL and CCL are the Escapees mailbox number w/street address in TX.  Have had no problem with these for any purpose, including firearms.  Was thinking about changing to SD for possibly lower insurance rates, but not with this info.

[Pappy Yokum]

16 hours ago, jblo said:

Both my DL and CCL are the Escapees mailbox number w/street address in TX.  Have had no problem with these for any purpose, including firearms.  Was thinking about changing to SD for possibly lower insurance rates, but not with this info.

Some of the "info" is misleading, incorrect - - or simply put:  Bad Info.

BTW -"Possibly?? -  SD Insurance is amazingly inexpensive!  Check the population for SD.  Real eye-opener when you "return" to a DL from somewhere *other than* SD - and start checking rates!

Started checking with the same insurance company - (Millers) -  but for a different state.  Yikes!  Search inc'l all the "hot" referral/suggestions - like USAA.  Still a negative "surprise"!

Call 'em - and ask 'em!! 

~

 

[Carlos]

What a mess.  I think the gun thing all comes down to being a resident of the state, and proving it.  I've never bought a gun on paper, so I really don't know what would happen with my ID.  All of my ID and mail has a UPS box address, BUT...I have never put the PMB thing on it.  So it just has street address then "#A104" behind it.  This is probably a good lesson learned for anyone doing it in the future, though it seems too late for OP to change it.

 

[packnrat]

i can not say for any other state, but here behind the wall in ca. there is street address and mailing address. so dl, carry permit, gas/electric, etc. bills are printed with street addy. but everything mailed to my “P,O” box.

so i see no problem with a mail forwarding service.

[agesilaus]

You can get an address if you have a plot of land by sticking a mailbox out on the road with a note on it asking the mailman for an address.

[Pappy Yokum]

4 hours ago, agesilaus said:

You can get an address if you have a plot of land by sticking a mailbox out on the road with a note on it asking the mailman for an address.

 

Good one !!...😄

[Carlos]

12 hours ago, agesilaus said:

You can get an address if you have a plot of land by sticking a mailbox out on the road with a note on it asking the mailman for an address.

And that's just it; a mailbox is you renting a tiny piece of land for your mail.  There's no real differentiation between renting an open space that you're never at, and renting a mailbox you're never at.  I've only been asked about a physical address a couple times, and I just say "I travel full time in an RV (I don't)," and they stop asking.

The firearm thing though has its own quagmire of laws and occasionally conflicting regulation.

 

[KodiakJack]

Believing this subject impacts many full-timer's I thought pointing the thread back toward the OP's topic may provide good information.  With that in mind I cut and pasted the below from the frequently asked questions area of the ATF website.  Answers about as many questions as it generates.

Later,

J

May a person who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a firearm in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not alone qualify the person to purchase a firearm in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

 

May an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA in any State?

Generally, a person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State. Exceptions include the acquisition pursuant to a lawful bequest, or an over–the–counter acquisition of a rifle or shotgun from a licensee where the transaction is allowed by the purchaser’s State of residence and the licensee’s State of business. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]

Last Reviewed August 31, 2015

What constitutes residency in a State?

For Gun Control Act (GCA) purposes, a person is a resident of a State in which he or she is present with the intention of making a home in that State. The State of residence for a corporation or other business entity is the State where it maintains a place of business. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a)(3), and 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.11]

 

[agesilaus]

I used a mail box on the property we bought while I slowly built a house over several years. That was no problem. You think someone will go out from the DMV to check your address? Extremely unlikely IMO unless you do something to arrouse lots of suspicion.

[agesilaus]

For Gun Control Act (GCA) purposes, a person is a resident of a State in which he or she is present with the intention of making a home in that State.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That flies in the face of what was federal law when I was in the service. You had the option to declare that the state you enlisted in was your home state thruout your enlistment. You could renew your vehicle registration and DL via mail even if you never set foot in that state for 20 years. And not pay state income tax while you were stationed in CA but resided in FL.

So how does a service member purchase a weapon in ID when he is a permanent resident of FL for example? I did it but that was before the current mania infected the country.

OK I think I found the answer to that you can buy out of state with PCS orders showing you are stationed in the state you are buying in. And in your home state with your state DL. And at least in some states they wave the 3 day waiting period if you have a note from a superior officer saying you are OK...heh.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by agesilaus

[Kirk W]

19 hours ago, agesilaus said:

You can get an address if you have a plot of land by sticking a mailbox out on the road with a note on it asking the mailman for an address.

The way in which addresses are assigned varies from state to state and does not involve the USPS unless the address has already been assigned by the appropriate agency. In many cases the local planning commission and there will be some tie to the 911 center. 

How to apply for a street address.

[agesilaus]

Not how it worked when I got one but that was years ago. The note on the new mail box worked, next day you had a new address. In FL

[Carlos]

In AZ they will TELL you what your address is, but the address was pre-determined by your location and the way the state determines addresses.

 

[Randyretired]

I just had an address assigned to a property in Colorado.  A visit to the county planning office along with proof of ownership was needed.  Fill out a form and in time an address is assigned.  I have done this here a few times.  If the address is not already in range of the addresses the USPS has then you encounter a lot of not a valid address problems until they finally update their files.  

[Pappy Yokum]

"Acelead" -  LOTS of replies and suggestions!

How about this:

Cut to the chase!..

Call  "Americas Mailbox" in Box Elder, South Dakota - used to have a Rapid City address,  which was an office -  in business for a long time - then they purchased land (their campground, which is open) - and necessitated the change to the Box Elder address.

VERY well informed, helpful folks!  No doubt this has "come up" before!

IMO - whatever they would tell you regarding this issue - would be the correct answer  ("gospel").....along with any solutions.

~

Edited November 23, 2019 by Pappy Yokum
typos corrected

[packnrat]

or, in a very small burg,  rent/buy a small office. (really just a 10 sq X 10 sq area of a closet sized place), this qualifies as a legal address, and have all mail sent to your "po box". this is legal, sketchy... maybe. but legal. maybe even go as far as doing a llc, or something along those lines.

and i am sure the "owner" of the rented space will like the income, even if only $100.usd a year... times how many?

as long as everything else is correct and above board. will/should work for a gun buy. insurance, taxes, voting, etc.

[sandsys]

33 minutes ago, packnrat said:

or, in a very small burg,  rent/buy a small office. (really just a 10 sq X 10 sq area of a closet sized place), this qualifies as a legal address, and have all mail sent to your "po box". this is legal, sketchy... maybe. but legal.

Better to rent a room in someone's house. You need the address to come up as residential in anyone's database. Lots of rooming houses go pretty cheap. If you do this near an RV repair facility it will also give you a place to sleep if needed during repairs.

Linda Sand

[Kirk W]

4 hours ago, sandsys said:

You need the address to come up as residential in anyone's database.

There is no need to do that at all under the law. There are thousands or people who use a mail service for the only address that they have, as we did for 12 years. 

[packnrat]

true, a mail forwarding service, as well as a po box is a valid address. the small office is a legal valid fixed address also. as many use such for llc reasons. if the IRS, FCC, FAA, BATF&E, other letter agency's says good, then it does work for a "legal" fixed address.

mostly a fixed address is only needed for a way to come and get you if needed.

but as like in a po box, you have to prove a fixed address to start up the rental. but this is only to prove you live in that postal area. (very limited number of boxes to rent out).

but yes a room to stay for repairs is a bonus. but then you need a very good friend willing do do such. (bed tax thing here).

but for everyone using a mail forwarding service, there are at least 1000 using a po box, or a privet mail box service. if for no other reason then secure mail receiving.

my dl, auto reg papers, ccw's from a number of states, utility bills,  tax papers, etc all have my fixed address printed on them. but all have my po box as the "mailing" address (not listed on such cards).

pending the privet box address it can work as a fixed address, such as how escapees works.  the usps does not like to "forward" mail.

[sandsys]

7 hours ago, Kirk W said:

There is no need to do that at all under the law. There are thousands or people who use a mail service for the only address that they have, as we did for 12 years. 

Yes, because you are using a Rainbow Drive address at Escapees. That is the ONLY address that has been accepted for everything and even Escapees had to go to court to get that. People using other addresses don't have the same benefits.

Linda Sand

[Carlos]

I use a UPS store for everything including government "home" address and it works just fine.

 

[sandsys]

1 minute ago, Carlos said:

I use a UPS store for everything including government "home" address and it works just fine.

That's may be true in some locations but not all of them. What city, state, do you use?

Linda

[Carlos]

Currently Glendale, AZ.  Previously Gilbert, AZ, and prior to that Tucson.  So I have no experience with other stated.  FedGovCo had no problem issuing my passport, known traveler ID, and political refugee card to me with this address as "home."

Funny story though, the DHS office couldn't read one of their own ID cards in order to issue another form of refugee ID.  They asked for...a state ID...before it was Real ID.  Idiots.

 

[Kirk W]

2 hours ago, sandsys said:

That is the ONLY address that has been accepted for everything and even Escapees had to go to court to get that.

The law about this is federal and Escapees did not go to court to get that changed. The only time that they have been in court on such issues was in 1999/2000 and that was a suit over voting rights. As it happens that case directly impacted us since we were going fulltime just as it took place.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Kirk W