RV Resort or RV Campground or Trailer Park?

[FL-JOE]

23 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

Part of our run out west this summer we wanted to visit Cheyenne and Laramie, then drop down for a week in the Loveland CO area and do some rides around the Rocky Mountain National Park area.  

We pre-plan and make reservations.  Narrowed our stay down to an "RV Resort" in Loveland just off I-25 on U.S. 34.  Easy drive up to Estes and into the areas we wanted to ride the Harley.  Checked reviews of the park, used Google Earth to see exactly what it looked like, and even talked to them twice on the phone.  Due to our size we reserved a "premium" site, which was nothing more than a 65' pull thru gravel site with slightly more width.   None of the RV parks in the Loveland, Ft. Collins, Denver area are cheap.

What we found is this "resort" is simply an older RV park that has been allowed to fill up with full time local workers.  I would guess about 75% here are in old used rigs that the occupant would have no way of moving themselves.  90% of the sites (gravel) have been set up so close to each other that generally only one site can have an awning out at one time.  They have kept 10 or 12 premium sites off to one side but when we asked about one of those for next year we were told that some of them would become "permanent" spots for residents next summer.

We have visited a few other campground in the area and will be driving through a few more before we depart.  We are finding this is the norm, many of the sites are full of local full time workers.  Is this a trend that is getting more and more prevalent around larger cities (Denver)?    

Maybe I'm missing something here in my own original post.  DOES ANYONE SEE WHERE I MENTIONED CONSTRUCTION WORKERS?

[FL-JOE]

3 hours ago, GlennWest said:

Don't know how I could take it any other way. You were complaining about the rv's condition and then bring up construction workers in same post.  If not your intention, good. 

Don't know any other way to put this.  You and your buddy Daryl are either going to have to get someone else to start reading these posts to you or both of you need to sign up for some adult education classes which are offered at most community colleges in the evening hours.  

I never mentioned "construction workers" in my original post.  You two third graders keep bring up construction workers.  

If you don't have anything   C O N S T R U C T I V E   to add why not ask someone how to close down your computer and call it a night.

[FL-JOE]

22 hours ago, bobsallyh said:

As I have said for years "RV Resort" is the most verbally abused word in the RV Park industry.

I would tend to agree with that!

[Barbaraok]

Joe, if someone can afford $3600/month for an RV site, I guarantee you they would not be an RV that couldn't move.   And I did misstate what the monthly cost of the $60/night site would be - should have been $1800 a month.  Still would be way more than would be charged as a monthly charge on an annual lease.   I do know one park in Seattle that charges that rate in the summer because they are about the only park on the north side of Seattle that still takes travelers - and they can do that because they are booked a YEAR ahead (they also have a deal with cruise ships for storing rigs while people are on cruises).

And you are on the slippery slope where "these type of residents" can slide into "those people".    Why do people who still work for a living and don't make enough to afford to buy a house/rent an apartment bother you so much?  Is it written somewhere that ALL those who are staying in RV Parks must be retired and move every so many days/weeks/months?   You do know that there are people who make a living moving RVs (assuming trailers/5ers) around?  Not at all unusual to see just a car parked at a 5th Wheel, only to have a large truck come bye and hitch up the trailer and move it away, while the wife follows in the car.  

Edited July 18, 2019 by Barbaraok

[richfaa]

If the OP folks are referring is Fl-Joe  he did not mention construction workers   how does anyone get  Construction workers out of   "full time local workers. " As we posted on this thread we have been in these campgrounds more than once they are out there and there is nothing wrong with them or the folks that live in them.

[GlennWest]

When you mentioned full time workers, likely 90% are construction workers. At least in my years in an RV that is the norm. So naturally when you posted that I assumed you are referring to construction workers. Sometimes our projects go on for years. So we must have understood you incorrectly. My bad and I apologise. 

[fpmtngal]

This thread, which has gotten a little off-topic, has touched on a couple of issues and hit some nerves.

One issue brought up is the fact some campground owners/managers don’t maintain their properties well. But that happens with apartment buildings, too. 30 years ago my BIL had a nice two story apartment. It was new, well maintained and the complex a nice community. He lived there for 10 years, until whoever owned it stopped fixing things and the better tenants started moving out. I drove past it last summer and couldn’t believe how awful it looked, a complete slum. 

Another issue, and I think the original point, is that there does seem to be a growing movement to choose full-time living in an RV set up permanently in a park as an alternative to living in a manufactured home, getting an apartment or buying a house, especially in large urban areas or where housing is limited and expensive. A used 10 year old 5er is cheaper to buy than most manufactured homes.

The people who are part of this group aren’t necessarily interested in RVing as a mobile lifestyle, only as a way they can afford to have a roof over their heads. They may or may not realize how much maintenance an RV requires, many do what they can afford to do, while others might not care.

Just like renters and homeowners in that same urban area.

Recently I spent a couple of nights at the campground where I had lived the last 4 months I worked, when my trailer was brand new. 3 years ago I paid $925 a month site fee (winter rates, higher in the summer, electricity included), and that was about half the cost of a small 1 bedroom apartment near where I worked. Now they charge $1100 a month, winter rate (don’t know if that’s year-round or not). This is an older campground near Magic Mountain and a relatively convenient commute to the San Fernando Valley and West LA so we are talking very major, expensive urban area. 

When I wandered around, there were no open sites in the month-to-month section and many of the same rigs were there. Since there were no open sites, even at $1100 per month and not the cheapest park in the area, people thought it still a reasonable way to live, with all the rigs well maintained and no tarps in sight.

Most of the time I lived there, it appeared I had no way to move my trailer as my TV was at the house 40 miles away. I was commuting in a Prius, usually backed in because it was easier to pull straight out at 5am, but also it was my little private joke. I actually had someone ask me if it pulled my trailer all right (my trailer is small but not THAT small!). That gave me a good chuckle. 

The people living there all had their own stories, one couple sold their house and were living in their 5er while their son was in college. Some were part of the full-time RV community who remain mobile (either following work or following the seasons). Some were looking for a more affordable permanent living situation and saw an RV as a cheaper alternative and better than living with parents or other family. 

Like others, I have seen other campgrounds with poorly maintained RVs in them. Those people all have their stories too. Some may not care, some may be doing the best they can and would make considerate neighbors.

At least for now, RV ownership as an alternative permanent living condition seems to be here to stay, especially around urban areas such as the greater LA area.

[Kirk W]

7 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

We have visited a few other campground in the area and will be driving through a few more before we depart.  We are finding this is the norm, many of the sites are full of local full time workers.  Is this a trend that is getting more and more prevalent around larger cities (Denver)?  

So what you don't like are local full time workers? I'm not sure just how that would be defined or how long must a worker is there to be considered local? Does it matter what his occupation is? I suspect that what you are concerned with is the rundown RV that appears to have not moved in a very long time and which has had little or no maintenance since it was parked there. To me at least, the issue is more one of appearance of the RV and the conditions of the park. One thing that does sometimes bother me in parks with many construction and/or energy workers is the noise and traffic that come with the workers keeping long hours. I don't blame the people who do that but I do prefer to stay in parks that are dominated by vacationers, weekenders, and extended travelers becuase they tend to come and go less and to sleep later. When I find myself in a park mostly filled with workers, I find that most of them are just hard working folks like most any other.

The thing is that we all have the right to find parks that suit our needs and desires and to not stay in those which do not meet that standard. 

[FL-JOE]

Kirk, just remember you are the one who said the nasty word describing the folks in this park as "construction workers", not me!

I just know when I take my walks in the morning that most of the units in this "RV resort" are older, have Colorado plates, look abandoned during the day, and in the evening might have one or two older cars sitting beside them.  Not pickup trucks with ladder racks, not work vans, just older cars.  Some of these folks that I have actually laid eyes on are in their 30's and some are much older.  I am only assuming that they are local workers that find living in an older RV cheaper than living on the regular economy.  That is an assumption on my part.  For all I know they may all be working for start up cannabis manufacturing farms in the area that don't pay much in the beginning.  The point was, and still is, in this area it doesn't leave many sites for RV travelers who are just visiting the area.

[richfaa]

Those that are full timers or high end users and have not seen or stayed in a CG like Fl-Joe describes is a mystery to me.

[Twotoes]

Why is the word “construction workers” a nasty word? Only you FL-Joe are making a big deal out of this. Maybe you shouldn’t assume. You know what they say when you assume anything. It makes you an ass. 

[chirakawa]

3 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

Kirk, just remember you are the one who said the nasty word describing the folks in this park as "construction workers", not me!

I just know when I take my walks in the morning that most of the units in this "RV resort" are older, have Colorado plates, look abandoned during the day, and in the evening might have one or two older cars sitting beside them.  Not pickup trucks with ladder racks, not work vans, just older cars.  Some of these folks that I have actually laid eyes on are in their 30's and some are much older.  I am only assuming that they are local workers that find living in an older RV cheaper than living on the regular economy.  That is an assumption on my part.  For all I know they may all be working for start up cannabis manufacturing farms in the area that don't pay much in the beginning.  The point was, and still is, in this area it doesn't leave many sites for RV travelers who are just visiting the area.

I'm not familiar with the area you are referring enough to know what kind of tourist, traveling RV traffic there is.  I do know from experience of talking with RV Park owners/managers that they would much rather fill their park every night with $35 per day overnight guests than $500 per month "permanent" residents.  But, if the traffic is not there, they will take a steady income over no income.

I know in my area, if it weren't for the working RV'ers most of the RV Parks would dry up.  This is just not a tourist/RV'er destination.  There's enough passing through on IH10 to support maybe one RV Park, but no more.

Condition of the park and of the RV's within it are the result of many factors, not just who's living there.

[Barbaraok]

In areas like Denver that have short travel season, long term rentals are how they pay basic and short summer overnight/weekly stays are the profit for the years.  $35/night in a large urban area - been a while since you’ve been out?  

[chirakawa]

8 hours ago, Barbaraok said:

In areas like Denver that have short travel season, long term rentals are how they pay basic and short summer overnight/weekly stays are the profit for the years.  $35/night in a large urban area - been a while since you’ve been out?  

No, I was just giving a comparison between overnight and monthly rates.  I could have said $50 and $900 or $70 and $1200.  I wasn't restricting it to "large urban area".  The fact is that they make more on overnight fees than monthly rates............if they can get them. 

[Kirk W]

13 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

Some of these folks that I have actually laid eyes on are in their 30's and some are much older.  I am only assuming that they are local workers that find living in an older RV cheaper than living on the regular economy. 

If you don't like the park you are in, why stay in it? With family in that area we do stop there for a few days every few years(most recently in 2018) and while there are a lot of working RV folks in some of the parks, that area has many RV parks to choose from. RV Park Reviews shows more than a dozen to select from. 

[chirakawa]

9 minutes ago, rm.w/aview said:

Still waiting for replies, two thus far, regarding the one and only question asked in the op. I avoid larger cities but find the question that Joe presented interesting, if only to help in the decision to enlarge my boundaries of the no go zones.

I'll answer the OP's question. 

YES.

[GR "Scott" Cundiff]

Honestly, the responses to the original post haven't been this forum's finest hour.

[richfaa]

11 hours ago, Twotoes said:

Why is the word “construction workers” a nasty word? Only you FL-Joe are making a big deal out of this. Maybe you shouldn’t assume. You know what they say when you assume anything. It makes you an ass. 

Fl-Joe DIDN'T mention the word Construction workers folks here on the forum put those words in his mouth for Whatever reason. He said    "Full time local workers" He also did not  say he did not like them nor inferred it.His OP was accurate  and we have observed pretty much the same thing over the years. A CG of   Full time local workers here in Central Florida  would most likely apply to folks who pick citrus.

[trailertraveler]

14 hours ago, richfaa said:

Those that are full timers or high end users and have not seen or stayed in a CG like Fl-Joe describes is a mystery to me.

Folks base their perceptions on their experience. The disparity of opinions expressed on this forum  regarding the number of working folks living in RVs has been going on for several years. Here is a post from a thread from 2014:

 

Quote

 

Posted December 30, 2014

  Quote

It might be interesting to hear reports of what was observed by folks here as they traveled over the past 6 months to a year?

Last February, an RV park in New Bern, NC had 27 working fulltimers (primarily construction workers from a local project) and 5 fulltime workampers. Most of the guests at the park we stayed at near Pennsacola, FL in March were workers employed on a pipeline, road repaving and plant shutdown although our neighbor was an independent insurance adjuster that worked disasters. The RV park we stayed at in Vicksburg, MS at the end of March had about 25 long term working folks in the backin sites along the whole outside perimeter of the park. We have been to a park in Dixon, TN several times and it is always nearly full of working folks as it was last April. They have some pull throughs that are generally available for overnight or short term stays. In April, most of the 24 long full hookup sites at the County Fairgrounds in Clarksdale, MS were taken by working folks. In October, the park we stayed at for one night in Liberal, KS had about half their 39 sites occupied long term by working folks that left early in the morning. We usually stay once a year at a mobile home park in Great Bend, KS where most of those staying in RVs are working the harvest for the farm coops. At the end of October, at a park in Lynnville, IN, we were one of two transients and there were 11 long term stays that left for work every morning.

In contrast, we spent part of August and all of September in New Mexico staying in Forest Service, BLM, state park and COE campgrounds. Other than the hosts, there were no long term stays. I have no idea how many fulltimers there were other than the one or two hosts in each campground.

 

In my experience, many of the same parks that participate in the 50% discount programs also have long term and permanent residents to help keep them in business.

A similar disparity in opinions/experience occurs in discussions of the need for reservations.

Edited July 19, 2019 by trailertraveler

[FL-JOE]

2 hours ago, Kirk W said:

If you don't like the park you are in, why stay in it? With family in that area we do stop there for a few days every few years(most recently in 2018) and while there are a lot of working RV folks in some of the parks, that area has many RV parks to choose from. RV Park Reviews shows more than a dozen to select from. 

Between the Laramie/Cheyenne area and down into Ft Collins there are probably a hundred parks available on RVParky or any of the apps.  When you consider the size of our coach and toad we have it narrows it down to maybe 10 or 20% of those. Like I said in an earlier post we are continuing to look at others.  Today is our last full day prior to heading to Utah and we are driving to two more.

If it wasn't for our son moving to the Ft Collins area and a grandson starting college at the University of Wyoming this spring we probably wouldn't return to the area for years, but this may become a regular stop for us.

[FL-JOE]

1 hour ago, rm.w/aview said:

Still waiting for replies, two thus far, regarding the one and only question asked in the op. I avoid larger cities but find the question that Joe presented interesting, if only to help in the decision to enlarge my boundaries of the no go zones.

We obviously plan travels about the same.  For 2020 we are thinking about finally doing the north eastern side.  I have no desire to come within 100 miles of DC, New York City, Boston, or similar large metro areas.  If camped out that far I don't mind driving a toad in or even taking public transportation to tour.  

Thought maybe this post would generate a discussion and good information about camping in and around larger metro areas.

In addition, thanks Scott and Rich.

[FL-JOE]

6 minutes ago, rm.w/aview said:

Is dry camping a possibility during those visits? Opens up more camping & scooter rides in the great blue yonder.

It is a possibility and yesterday we actually checked some places.  North of Ft Collins there is a popular road called Poudre Canyon Road.  The national park service has a handful of campgrounds up in that area.  The Cache la Poudre River that runs along the canyon road is a popular white water rafting area.  There are a couple of these small campgrounds that we could squeeze into a site without our trailer toad.  No utilities but we can survive without them.  The search continues today.

[FL-JOE]

We will hope for the best!  Safe travels.

[Twotoes]

I have a friend who lives in Ft Collins. I am lucky that I can boondock at his house. There is a KOA in Ft Collins and one in Chyanne as well as one on I-25 between them. I think any one of the three could fit a big rig. I have never stayed in any of them but KOAs usually are clean and family friendly. 

[2gypsies]

4 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

It is a possibility and yesterday we actually checked some places.  North of Ft Collins there is a popular road called Poudre Canyon Road.  The national park service has a handful of campgrounds up in that area.  The Cache la Poudre River that runs along the canyon road is a popular white water rafting area.  There are a couple of these small campgrounds that we could squeeze into a site without our trailer toad.  No utilities but we can survive without them.  The search continues today.

We've stayed along the Poudre Canyon. They are national forest campgrounds, not national park.  They're very nice and very busy! The white water rafting is fun!

Have you checked out Terry Bison Ranch?  Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44dI8-AK22Q

Edited July 19, 2019 by 2gypsies