Used RV sale prices and sold prices

[castlewood57]

A few years ago I had been on and there was a conversation about a dealership in Texas, this site also listed what their campers had sold for the previous year.   Does anyone have that site?  Are they still in business?

Thanks all!

[chirakawa]

https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/

[castlewood57]

thanks for the info!  Getting a new to me truck, and 5th wheel to follow.

Thanks!

[Kirk W]

Before you but the truck, check with CarFax.

[FL-JOE]

Too bad there isn't a Carfax for RVs.  

[richfaa]

Supply and demand, location, the economy. Here in Florida there is no shortage of RV's  and prices can be very good depending on your negotiating skills. We were at the Tampa RV show last week and it seems to us that the prices for RV's were a bit lower.

 

[FL-JOE]

There are some manufacturers (DPs) that are not taking new orders because all of their coaches are spoken for.  If this trend continues and spreads then it will become less and less common to get up to 30% off a new RV of any type.  Discounts of 10% to 15% may become more common in the years ahead.

But of course that could also be good news if you try to sell your 3 or 4 year old coach.

[docj]

17 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

There are some manufacturers (DPs) that are not taking new orders because all of their coaches are spoken for.  If this trend continues and spreads then it will become less and less common to get up to 30% off a new RV of any type. 

I'm not sure how you are extrapolating from a supply shortage of DPs to a change in discounting of all kinds of RVs. Class A's, both gas AND diesel account for less than 5% of the total RV market and I would guess that DPs are less than 25% of that.

Industry data from the end of 2018 showed that overall RV sales were down in 2018 relative to 2017 which means that there may well be lots of unsold towables sitting on dealer lots ready to be discounted.

RV Shipments to dealers through November 2018

[kb0zke]

Bear in mind that PPL is mainly a consignment business and they push low prices in order to move inventory quickly. We visited them a few months ago and were told they would list our coach for less than $10,000 (out of which would come their fee). I've got it listed on foreforums for four times that, which is a much more realistic price. Now, they would have taken it as a consignment at my asking price, yes, but they would be pestering me to lower the price within a week or two.

Also, the condition of the rigs varies a great deal. Some of them are really ready for you to live in, and some still have the trash there. We saw one that had the bathroom sink sitting on the floor, as if someone was in the midst of a remodel and just walked away.

I'm not bad-mouthing PPL here. They have a huge selection at their Houston location, and if you don't have a trade-in you can find some bargains there. I'd use their prices as a rock-bottom price guide. RV Trader is another site that I check, but for the other end of the spectrum. A Foretravel similar to mine was listed for $54,000. That's too much.

Remember that the value of a thing is what a willing seller and a willing buyer agree on. If you see something you are interested in, make an offer that you are happy with. If the seller says NO you haven't lost anything. They might just say YES, though.

[castlewood57]

1 hour ago, kb0zke said:

Bear in mind that PPL is mainly a consignment business and they push low prices in order to move inventory quickly. We visited them a few months ago and were told they would list our coach for less than $10,000 (out of which would come their fee). I've got it listed on foreforums for four times that, which is a much more realistic price. Now, they would have taken it as a consignment at my asking price, yes, but they would be pestering me to lower the price within a week or two.

Also, the condition of the rigs varies a great deal. Some of them are really ready for you to live in, and some still have the trash there. We saw one that had the bathroom sink sitting on the floor, as if someone was in the midst of a remodel and just walked away.

I'm not bad-mouthing PPL here. They have a huge selection at their Houston location, and if you don't have a trade-in you can find some bargains there. I'd use their prices as a rock-bottom price guide. RV Trader is another site that I check, but for the other end of the spectrum. A Foretravel similar to mine was listed for $54,000. That's too much.

Remember that the value of a thing is what a willing seller and a willing buyer agree on. If you see something you are interested in, make an offer that you are happy with. If the seller says NO you haven't lost anything. They might just say YES, though.

I am just starting to get into really shopping, we'll probably not pull the trigger until next year, need to get something to pull with first.
It's all part of the hunt.  Thanks for the extra info though!
Chuck
KB0VXD

 

[Kirk W]

21 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

There are some manufacturers (DPs) that are not taking new orders because all of their coaches are spoken for. 

Really? Having been at 8 dealerships over the past 2 weeks, there sure are a lot of them in stock.

[FL-JOE]

21 hours ago, docj said:

I'm not sure how you are extrapolating from a supply shortage of DPs to a change in discounting of all kinds of RVs. Class A's, both gas AND diesel account for less than 5% of the total RV market and I would guess that DPs are less than 25% of that.

Industry data from the end of 2018 showed that overall RV sales were down in 2018 relative to 2017 which means that there may well be lots of unsold towables sitting on dealer lots ready to be discounted.

RV Shipments to dealers through November 2018

Like I said in my original post "if this trend continues to spread".  Maybe I should have rambled on for awhile and explained my opinion better.  If sales of ALL new RVs would continue to rise and manufacturers end up not taking new orders then discounts would start to get less and less.  Supply and demand.

[FL-JOE]

53 minutes ago, Kirk W said:

Really? Having been at 8 dealerships over the past 2 weeks, there sure are a lot of them in stock.

I am sure this time of year you are seeing dealers stocked with many new DP's, especially Newmars and Tiffins.   But if you want to order one will they even take your order?  I doubt it because the production of these two manufacturers is probably spoken for until the next model year.  

Newmar was getting out 12 or 13 class A units a day and I think Tiffin was getting similar numbers from their factory.  I guarantee you that every Newmar getting to the delivery lot was either already sold to a dealer or an individual since the start of the model year.  

I'm not sure what type of RV you are looking for but we may be comparing apple and oranges.

[docj]

2 hours ago, FL-JOE said:

  I guarantee you that every Newmar getting to the delivery lot was either already sold to a dealer or an individual since the start of the model year.  

It should be noted that RVIA publishes data for shipments to dealers not for sales to consumers.  Those units going to dealers are probably "sold" in a manner similar to the way new cars sit on dealer lots.  The dealer probably "owns" them using financing provided by the manufacturer.  

Frankly, if you read posts (largely on IRV2) from people who order new, high-end MHs, many of them seem to really get into the weeds with customization of small details (at least with Newmar and Tiffin).  If I were a manufacturer, I'd prefer to manufacture MHs with a stock set of features to ship to dealers rather than deal with customers who specify dozens of changes.  That might account for why you're being told that current orders are all spoken for. JMO.

[richfaa]

The RV industry has been booming for a few years.We are at Elkhart/Goshen every year for a rally and all the manufacturers are  building them as fast as they can. Remember 2007/2008 Elkhart/ Goshen was a ghost town  unemployment was at 26 % or higher.  The economy has its ups and downs and they know there will be another down.When the economy is down RV sales  are greatly affected. 

[castlewood57]

Absolutely agree with you richfaa .  It's defintely a boom/bust operation along with the economy. 
There are so many brands and models and everyone's tastes change so quickly that they are fighting that aspect as well, again high demand for some, while others languish on the lots.
 

[FL-JOE]

22 hours ago, docj said:

It should be noted that RVIA publishes data for shipments to dealers not for sales to consumers.  Those units going to dealers are probably "sold" in a manner similar to the way new cars sit on dealer lots.  The dealer probably "owns" them using financing provided by the manufacturer.  

Frankly, if you read posts (largely on IRV2) from people who order new, high-end MHs, many of them seem to really get into the weeds with customization of small details (at least with Newmar and Tiffin).  If I were a manufacturer, I'd prefer to manufacture MHs with a stock set of features to ship to dealers rather than deal with customers who specify dozens of changes.  That might account for why you're being told that current orders are all spoken for. JMO.

We may be saying the same thing but in two different ways.  If you walked into a large Newmar dealership right now and wanted even a $400,000 DP in a certain interior color and maybe one or two other standard options you better hope either they have one coming or there is an unsold one someplace in the U.S. because the dealership could not just order that unit for you......they are all spoken for in other words.   The factory in Nappanee Indiana isn't going to start working 12 hour shifts nor are they going to start working on Sundays to attempt to produce more.  They are maxed out for the model year.  I have heard that Tiffin is the same currently.

That was the point I was trying to make.  When this happens with certain manufacturers and continues, then discounts will get less and less in new ones and late model used units could be worth a little more.

[docj]

50 minutes ago, FL-JOE said:

When this happens with certain manufacturers and continues, then discounts will get less and less in new ones and late model used units could be worth a little more.

I agree but the devil is in the detail.  There's no question but that shipments to dealers were, unexpectedly, down in 2018 compared to 2019 (that shows in the RVIA data).  And there's no way of knowing how fast those shipments actually get translated into sales.  Discounts are given at the dealer level when the "cost of money" for holding inventory exceeds expected profit on sale.  After the 2008 recession, a dealer I knew, at the time, was left holding a couple of Class A Country Coaches that he couldn't sell regardless of how low he priced them.  They took years to get rid of.  Would have been great buys if we had been in a position to buy at that time.

 

[FL-JOE]

But don't those RVIA reports include even park models being shipped to dealers?  RV sales in the past few years have really taken off and there could be a couple months where the numbers seem to trend up or down slightly.  I certainly would not read too much into all the RVIA reports.  There are thousands and thousands of boomers retiring every day and many of those are purchasing RVs or upgrading.  Like I said, supply and demand.  Discounts will start to trend down from dealers and good clean used units will sell for more.

[jblo]

Pertinent to Tiffin and Newmar, but if you drive by MHS in Alvarado, TX, sures seems to be an ginormous number of DPs on their lot, and elsewhere as we travel around.   Ordering one, may be a long wait, but definitely no shortage of DPs overall...