Explain network management please???

[rbertalotto]

Is your connection slowed down only when a particular cell site is overloaded?

How does this differ from “ throttling”?

[AquaDawg]

If the tower is overloaded, everyone using it gets their connection slowed down.

With throttling, you as an individual are being targeted by the cell carrier, and your connection is slowed down. Most likely because you used too much data.

[rbertalotto]

That is what I understood. Thank you for confirming.

[mkc]

As I understand it, network management is a transient slowdown that occurs only when towers are experiencing high levels of activity.  Throttling is a complete slowdown once you've reached a data limit for that billing cycle, and things don't return to normal speed until your next billing cycle kicks in.

[whj469]

Some providers, ATT, will keep up your speed and just charge you more. It happened to me last summer when my granddaughter was visiting me in the UP of MI for a few weeks. You have to set that up prior and they send you an email if they provide extra data and charge you more.

[Carlos]

Let's use the more appropriate technical terms...

Rate limiting (throttling):  This is where you always limit the rate at which any given device or connection can get data.  So no matter what, you will never go faster than this.  For example, Cricket is a subsidiary of AT&T, with better prices.  But you are rate-limited to 8Mbps on most plans.

Prioritization:  You may see full speed on an unloaded cell site.  But if higher-priority customers are using it a lot, your data goes last and you may see anything from slow speeds to failed connections.  Verizon de-prioritizes its MVNO customers (but not its own prepaid customers).

 

[Smitty77_7]

I'd describe this a bit different. If a cell tower is congested, those that have used the contract amount of data, will find they are routed to slower traffic lanes to get data to and thru/and back from and thru the tower. Other user's that have not reached their contract data amount, will remain in the faster lanes. Now, many times these faster lanes will still be slow due to the heavier traffic, but typically not a slow as those that are de-prioritized/managed over to the slower traffic lanes. (That's my layman's description.)

I've been told, but never validated, that the band you are on could have an impact on your congestion thru the cell tower too. I've read where some with MiFi's that allow you to choose a different band, were able to regain relatively good speeds after changing bands. (Again, never validated this, so take this as just a campfire lore piece of input.)

 

Best to all,

Smitty

[Carlos]

Each frequency is indeed managed individually.  However the system in general should be managing frequency usage, and will (should) move you to more open frequencies if possible.  But that's a trade-off since each band has different propagation and reach characteristics, so it may not be busy, but you may not get good signal from it.  Everything from tree coverage to distance will affect that.  It is never rational for an end user without significant radio knowledge to try to manage bands manually.

I have several FCC licenses and certifications in microwave communications.  I'd never try to manage my own gear that way.

[Smitty77_7]

Carlos's post was posting as I was hitting enter. Agree with his input, and thanks!

Also understand that besides the actual cell tower. Many stops/hubs along the way, have Network Traffic'ing going on. Data Centers of communication have complex rules on traffic prioritization. As well as the backhauls of usual some fiber T6 or greater line from the actual cell tower itself. 

So many times it may appear you are seeing slow response, but it could be the actual traffic going thru and back the full pipeline to the actual server you are accessing at that moment. Say going to Netflix, if at the moment you are trying to stream data from a show, they are experiencing heavy demand from other user's, you could easily see a slow down, or try later type message... 

Lot's of places along the cellular and internet highways to get caught in traffic:)!

Smitty

 

[rbertalotto]

So does this explain why at times, my Unite Explore hotspot can't stream video via a ROKU stick and DirecTV Now. So I shut off the hotspot and reboot and more time than not I'm back in business...??

[Carlos]

If a reboot fixes it, then it could have been a problem with the memory in the device, or with the cell connection from the device to the network.  If you can turn the radios off and back on without rebooting it, that would tell you whether it is the router itself that was the problem, or the radios.  Either way, network rate limits and prioritization are not affected by a reboot.  But some devices have not-great radio management, and disconnecting/reconnecting to the cell network helps fix a problem.

 

[Smitty77_7]

3 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Each frequency is indeed managed individually.  However the system in general should be managing frequency usage, and will (should) move you to more open frequencies if possible.  But that's a trade-off since each band has different propagation and reach characteristics, so it may not be busy, but you may not get good signal from it.  Everything from tree coverage to distance will affect that.  It is never rational for an end user without significant radio knowledge to try to manage bands manually.

I have several FCC licenses and certifications in microwave communications.  I'd never try to manage my own gear that way.

Thanks Carlos. I was mostly thinking of some of the newer bands, that take newer equipment to access. Much less traffic along that highway. T-Mobile for example, has added some new bands in the last few years, and only those with newer equipment that cover that band, or possibly a cellular amp that amplify that band, will be on those lanes...:)!

Cool that you have the expertise, and share it with us here!!!

Best,

Smitty

 

[Carlos]

Oh yeah, newer gear with more bands is always good.  Especially when most people will NOT have gear that uses those bands!  This is a great time to be on the leading edge.  I'm currently shopping for a new all-band device to make use of Verizon's expansion into low and high bands.

But my RV cell repeater/amp is only 900/1900, and the new multi-banders are SOOO expensive.

 

[Smitty77_7]

9 minutes ago, rbertalotto said:

So does this explain why at times, my Unite Explore hotspot can't stream video via a ROKU stick and DirecTV Now. So I shut off the hotspot and reboot and more time than not I'm back in business...??

Carlos did a great answer... But I have to add for fun:

CNTRL-ALT-DELTE

When in doubt, it never hurts to try:)! And sometimes, the process has positive results...

:)!

Smitty

[Big5er]

On 1/18/2019 at 11:02 AM, Carlos said:

Rate limiting (throttling):  This is where you always limit the rate at which any given device or connection can get data.  So no matter what, you will never go faster than this.  For example, Cricket is a subsidiary of AT&T, with better prices.  But you are rate-limited to 8Mbps on most plans.

Uh...I'm not sure I agree with you here. I think AquaDawg was more accurate in his explanation. My old account had 4G speed and was "unlimited" but after I used 20gigs a month, they throttled it down to like 600kb speed. To quote the fine print of that old account: Once high-speed data allowance is used, you will have 2G speeds for the remainder of the month. Your data experience and functionality of some data applications, such as streaming video or audio, may be impacted unless you purchase additional data.

So "throttling" and "rate limiting" are not the same thing.

[Carlos]

1 minute ago, Big5er said:

So "throttling" and "rate limiting" are not the same thing.

They are.  It's just that on that plan, you had a period without rate limits, and then they added one if you used more than your un-throttled limit.  Cricket has two rate limit tiers, and Verizon has three.  On most Cricket plans you get a rate-limited 8Mbps for up to 5GB, then you get 128k for the rest of the month.  Verizon has many plans which have non-limited (not throttled speed), and a rate-limited tethering speed (600k), and then an "over usage" rate limit of 128k when you use up your non-limited allotment.

 

[Big5er]

You said "This is where you always limit the rate at which any given device or connection can get data.  So no matter what, you will never go faster than this."

Now you say there is a "non-limited (not throttled speed)" AND a rate limited speed. 

Well if you can never go faster than the rate limited speed then how can you have non throttled speed? A device can clearly go faster than the "throttled" speed. I have no idea what "rate limiting" is. Why introduce additional terms that no one on this forum has used...ever? Every one here is familiar with "throttling". Like AquaDawg said  "With throttling, you as an individual are being targeted by the cell carrier, and your connection is slowed down. Most likely because you used too much data."  That pretty much sums it up. Once you use up your allowed high speed data you are "throttled" down to a slower speed. It isn't "rate limited" it is "throttled". And your device is clearly capable of going faster than the throttled speed, it is just that your carrier has slowed you down (throttled) until the end of your billing cycle. 

[Carlos]

1 hour ago, Big5er said:

Why introduce additional terms that no one on this forum has used...ever?

Because it's the correct, and meaningful term.  This thread is titled "explain network management" and you can't do that by continuing the abuse of meaningless marketing terms like "throttling," that nobody really understands.  I figured I could contribute some technical knowledge based on 30 years designing and managing telecom networks, and that includes helping figure out what all of these terms mean.  I'm not sure why you feel the need to berate me for using accurate technical terms in a tech thread.

1 hour ago, Big5er said:

It isn't "rate limited" it is "throttled".

"Throttled" is the marketing term for "rate limited."  All networks have rules for rate limiting, whether you use them or not.  My home network (using business access points and security gateways) will rate limit a user temporarily if that device is impacting others.  Yes, that's also "throttling."  For the most part, throttling implies a temporary rate limit, but that's one of the things that's not clear to many users.  You can use whatever terms you want, but it was clear that some users in this thread were unclear on:

Maximum, unmanaged speed

Maximum rate limited speed (permanently)

Temporary rate limits (throttling?)

De-prioritization, including combined with the above